We need a bigger bully!

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Unperson

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Jan 26, 2010
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How to fight a bully

I've been following a lot of the efforts being made to get agencies and groups to back off from electronic cigarettes. I understand that constructing petitions, news blurbs, essays, and other works of informative prose means that you need to speak to not only the target of the work, but you must write with the notion that other people reading it are being exposed to the issues for the first time. As such, you need to mention all of the rudimentary facets of the topic so that first time readers become enlightened and, in turn, may now support your efforts. However, there comes a point where you are just spinning your wheels with the same argument or beating the same dead horse over and over.

Many of the writings I come across are starting to sound like broken records. The main message many seem to be trying to bring to the FDA and other groups (such as the ALA), is to make these agencies aware that electronic cigarettes are less harmful than traditional analog tobacco products. Do we really think the FDA, ALA, A.S.H., and other organizations are that stupid? Don't you think they already know what we are trying to tell them and they simply don't care? Humor me for a bit...

Let's continue with the notion that we don't need to teach the FDA about e-cigs. We don't need to express how much safer they are or that people will switch back to analogs without them, etc., etc.. We know, they know, la, la, la.

Pick the biggest kid in the yard and deck him.

Many of the organizations out there that are attacking e-cigs are fueling the majority of their arguments on FDA statements. The ALA quotes the FDA to back up everything they are doing. A.S.H. uses the FDA reports as muscle behind their terror tactics. What we have is several little bullies all running around the school yard harassing others with impunity because they have the real bully (the FDA) backing them up. If we are going to stop getting picked on, then we need to put them all in their place using the same tactics they are using against us, but not necessarily the tactics they expect us to use.

Fight fire with fire.. ..or not

A.S.H. (Action on Smoking and Health) is going behind the scenes and attacking retailers by threatening Sellers (e.g., Amazon, E-Bay, etc.) and I.S.P. and service providers (e.g., PayPal, etc.). They are telling providers to stop offering services to web sites that sell e-cigs and other related merchandise by using terror tactics such as threats that if these providers continue to offer services despite warnings from the FDA that they are opening themselves up to lawsuits for criminal negligence. A.S.H. is using inflated negative numbers and bloated statistics along with legal threats to bully their way through the yard.

A.S.H. will probably be the hardest group to take on. Why? Because they are extremists and fanatics. They are mindless, snarling bulldogs with tunnel vision and an end goal that is both unrealistic and sadistically cruel to the people they are allegedly trying to help. If you've ever encountered an individual with an extremist viewpoint, then you are aware that you cannot reason with them. You can't get them to recognize an empirical truth. They won't see a logical point even if you construct it into a barn and place them inside it. Forget about A.S.H.. The way to deflate them is to take away their FDA argument.

Big and Little Brother

The FDA (Food and Drug Administration) and the ALA (American Lung Association) have curious motives. They claim to be acting on our behalf, but are they? If we go with the notion that they can clearly see what e-cigs are and can recognize the benefits of them, then what are they really up to? Is it financial?

The FDA is a government organization. No matter how noble the goal of the FDA is suppose to be, it still must act as a branch of the government. As such, it will not necessarily serve the best interests of the public. If you believe otherwise then we've already lost. The government wants taxes from cigarettes. E-cigs threaten that. Enough said.

The ALA receives massive amounts of money by endorsing cessation products which they risk losing if e-cigs become fully legal. They claim their fundamental goal is to protect and save lives, but are they really doing that in this fight?

We need to inform the FDA and the ALA that the truth about e-cigs is eventually going to become known. Sooner or later, there will be formal scientific studies conducted that will clearly document that e-cigs were and are a better direction for smokers to go in and that these two groups should have been spearheading an effort to get people to switch to e-cigs instead of trying to block them.

That's the point, isn't it? Eventually the truth will come out in an irrefutable format. When that happens, who is going to look stupid? More importantly, if an investigation is performed to study why groups like the FDA and ALA acted the way they did, who is going to come out of it looking bad? Maybe we should be working towards that. There are many news and media organizations that live and breath to do investigative stories into issues like this.

1. Call up Dateline, 20/20, 48 Hours, etc. and tell them to look into why the FDA and ALA is attacking a device that is safer than analogs.
2. Write to Oprah, Ellen, The View, Regis and Kelly, and other daytime glitterati and ask them to look into individuals that have already had to switch back to analogs because local laws have made e-cigs off limits to them.
3. Contact CNN, API, Reuters, and other news organizations and inform them that someone really needs to look into the motives of the government with regard to e-cig legalization. Are they trying to harm the public so they can keep collecting taxes?

If A.S.H. wants to threaten providers by saying that they are opening themselves up to potential lawsuits by selling a product that the FDA doesn't approve of, then maybe we need to fire back with the same ammunition.

Maybe we need to start telling all of these groups that they are opening themselves up to negative outcomes they don't want to have to face, such as:

1. Lawsuits - Tell the FDA, ALA, and A.S.H. that the actions they are taking today is harming people that felt it necessary to revert to analog tobacco and that efforts will be made to rally all of these people and that lawsuits will be put into motion against these agencies for removing life saving alternatives.
2. Investigations - Inform these agencies that there will be investigations that will make every effort possible to fully determine why these agencies acted the way they did.
3. Discreditability - Personally, I think the FDA and the ALA really stepped in it this time. I think both groups have become so sure of themselves and their power that they really think they can use their muscle to try to pass this idiocy off. I think both groups think that we're too powerless to do anything against them and in the end, we'll just have to take whatever garbage they spoon feed us and swallow it. That's where they are wrong. They are not above reproach. Both the FDA and the ALA need to be informed that the truth will come out on e-cigs and when it does they are going to lose a massive amount of credibility.

...

Okay. The simple truth is that we need to start fighting them with methods that might actually wake a few people up. Telling them e-cigs are good isn't going to work. Here's how it has gone up to now:

1. The FDA tries to ban e-cigs. There are groups that also want to see e-cigs fail, but they remain silent as long as the FDA succeeds with this initial step.

Result: If left alone they would have quietly succeeded.

2. Groups emerge to challenge the FDA. We tell the FDA they are wrong because e-cigs are better than analog tobacco.

Result: The FDA ignored us and proceeded as planned. The create a study that even basic academics scoff as embarrassing and use this faux factual farce as ammunition. They'll then ask us to produce our own study to refute theirs which can't exist within the time frame the FDA is moving along. The other agencies working against us now get to claim the FDA has proof (via this paper turd the FDA pushed out) that we should all regard as a burning bush and thus withdraw our rediculous statements even though they are truthful and salient. Shame on us for questioning divine powers.

3. The FDA continues its assertions that e-cigs are bad. The groups that remained silent from the start now become vocal. The ALA and A.S.H. spearhead new efforts to stop e-cigs using the FDA as their shield. State and federal movers and shakers start getting calls from big tobacco, big pharma, and their own brethen (tax affiliations) and are told to let the dogs out.

Result: With more anti-e-cig bulldozers out and about, efforts are quickly made to start banning e-cigs from individual states. New laws are pouring out of the woodwork to incorporate e-cigs into other bans like PACT, or to fuse e-cigs into laws that geared to protect children. These "Sign here to save a kid" laws will likely pass because the average American won't read the fine print and will think it is a good thing just because it has "My God! Think of the children!" in bold letters at the top.

4. We continue to follow the same tactics from step 2. We continue telling the FDA that e-cigs are safer and now add these other organizations to the list of people we feel we need to educate.

Result: State after state starts yielding to the opposers. Sellers lose storefronts and web sites as they are hammered into silence. Petitions will be filed under the stacks of other petitions. More laws pass quicker than it will take to remove them.

Projected final result: Based on our current methods of continuing to educate people that already know what we are saying, we will lose. We're spinning our wheels and making little to no progress while these agencies forge ahead at alarming speeds.

I mean, seriously, have you ever seen our government move so fast on an issue like electronic cigarettes? The are moving with a speed and determination that I've never seen before. You'd think the e-cig was right up there with the events from 911. Now ask yourself why? Do you really think they are doing so because they feel they are protecting us? How long did it take the government to respond to Katrina? They didn't move into high gear until mass opinion started pointing out how terrible the government was performing. Maybe we should learn from that.

Maybe the best way to stop them isn't to educate them, but to show the rest of America that something just isn't right about their motivations. Maybe getting the news and the media to point a camera at this mundane clown posse to expose their real motives is our best course of action.

Don't teach them.. ..teach them a lesson.
 

48lowes

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Nov 10, 2009
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illinoize
good write up now get to the counter offensive. to the front line with you :D

Unperson
I'm with you in the kick .... take names later line of thought, I think you've read the situation correctly. Threats don't cut it and we need some continuity to move forward. I'd like to rattle every cage, bend every ear. I've never been a good point man, follow up and support I can handle like a bulldog.
You seem to be pretty good putting your thoughts into writing. As you say things are moving fast and deliberate on the big money side. The light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train.
Would you head up the committee to inform the news media? Look into class action suits? etc. etc. Hey I'll join that committee, but again we must have some coordination. We need all the helpers that can be mustered.

Contact and join

CASAA
CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/casaa/69092-casaa-representatives-needed.html

Vapers Coalition
Vapers Coalition - Protecting your Right to Vape
 

Unperson

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 26, 2010
228
17
New England, U.S.A.
Would you head up the committee to inform the news media? Look into class action suits? etc. etc. Hey I'll join that committee, but again we must have some coordination. We need all the helpers that can be mustered.

I'd love to, but Peggy isn't returning my calls...

250px-Margaret_Hamburg_official_portrait.jpg

Current Commissioner of Food and Drugs

Margaret Ann "Peggy" Hamburg (born on July 12, 1955) is an American physician and public health administrator. She has served as Vice President for Biological Programs, Nuclear Threat Initiative, Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation of U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the New York City Commissioner of Health. She was nominated in March 2009 by President Barack Obama to become the Commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. She was sworn in as the Commissioner of the FDA on May 22, 2009.

I don't know what her problem is. Okay, okay.. ..so I tried to vape during one of her pep rallies, but it was stealth liquid with a "no LED" battery! Sheesh!

...

Seriously.. ..I don't think you want me heading up any kind of public relations campaign as some consider my "let's get 'em" rhetoric akin to a bull in a china shop with a misused library card. I was very vocal in the "Let's make these a tobacco product" petition thread * and I don't think the higher ups in the CASAA are very fond of me since I voted for a non-existent "C" option. In fact, I think the CASAA would prefer I don't reference them at all in the future.

* Note: I did go back and read later posts in that thread only to discover that Uncle Sam had suddenly developed Alzheimer's when it came to posting their objections.

Still, if I see actions moving in a direction to expose the hypocrisy of these "..but we care" organizations (thus producing favorable results for the vaping masses) then I will apply my full support and if there is an area I can apply myself without my brutish tactics actually becoming a detriment to the cause, then I'm all in.
 

D103

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Mar 18, 2010
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cedar rapids, iowa
Unperson - excellent post and I agree wholeheartedly. I have made some of the same observations in past posts, i.e. that as more evidence is accumulated about the efficacy of this technology there wil be much more than the proverbial "egg on the face" there will be and should be public and political outrage. I agree with you that we should utilize the media and cast glaring lights on the more than just questionable motives of these organizations. I have written CNN, MSNBC, AC360 as well as my State Reps., State Senators and President Obama. I will continue to write the media and political representatives to point out the hypocrisy and call into questions motives which are quite clearly not in the public interest.
 
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