`````What If the good stuff was sold main stream?`````

[Projectguy]

An idea raised in another thread I thought that it might deserve consideration on it's own. The thought is what if Provaris were sold in Canadian Tire and Jugheads juice in Mac's milk? As Canadians we've all experienced the "pleasures" of wandering the aisles in Crapy Tire looking for someone who works there and the convenience of the gas, cash and dash at Macs. I'm sure there are other iconic Canadian establishments that you can think of where the shift into mainstream vaping would prove to be interesting:

Canadian Tire
Macs Milk
Couche Tard (that might not be so different)
Tim Horton's

 

[Cobber]

Bars, clubs, LCBO, Coffee shops with their "special blends"

 

[Projectguy]

WHat about displays, staff, etc

 

[Ayce]

I've not seen them at our CTC's here,but Giant Tiger is selling the SmokeNV kits and cartos. I've seen others at a couple of convenience stores, non nic versions, though.

 

[darren molnar]

An idea raised in another thread I thought that it might deserve consideration on it's own. The thought is what if Provaris were sold in Canadian Tire?
As Canadians we've all experienced the "pleasures" of wandering the aisles in Crapy Tire looking for someone who works there,,,,,,,,,,,

Ya, would be called a PRO-V-airy and made of blue and yellow plastic. and the electronics would work for a time but the body would fall apart sooner ,the ever-ready batteries would be recalled after a number of fires, and ECF would have threads titled " What kind of glue should I use for,,,, "

 

[rachelcoffe]

Actually ProjectGuy...the ability to go "mainstream" is really the ultimate goal of ECTA. 1) Painstakingly complete compliance with the law + 2) successfully quashing the 'tobacco or medicine' misclassifications = 3) industry freedom. I could care less if vendors & manufacturers do the above through ECTA, or on their own. The goal remains the same...and the obligation to do so remains the same. But if ECTA's members do all they need to (consistently & ongoingly), and move forward in a timely manner...they will likely be first to that finish line, & its members would then have the first go at freedom & expansion.

Point is sooner or later, we're going to see relatively mainstream sales. Yay!

My bet is that there'll always be a market for cheapo disposables, 510s, prefilled cartridges etc etc...in places like a convenience store. No one expects a convenience store to have the best anything when it comes to electronic goods. But they do carry some, and if you're in a pinch (or just on a budget, or don't know any better lol) it's there for you. I don't anticipate convenience stores moving beyond the "crap," because they're not about to staff their shops with experienced vapers, who have the time or inclination to help a customer choose something good. Convenience stores don't care if it's good - they just wanna sell you stuff, lol. In and out, quick.

So as for the "good stuff" like a ProVari or premium e-juice...I think that kind of stuff will remain the domain of actual vape-shops. But there's totally going to be loads of vape-shops someday. Like entirely dedicated to e-cigs and/or e-juice. Small ones, big ones, franchise ones, completely unique ones, mom & pop ones & slickly professional ones. There's no limit.

Vape-shops, i.e. retail stores...won't end online sales, far from it. There'll be both. Because there's a desire for both from customers, and so so much to explore. All kinds of juices, and so & so's Strawberry can be completely different from what's-their-name's Strawberry. All kinds of devices. All kinds of innovations & new products coming along, all the time. And millions of smokers out there, many of whom have never heard of e-cigs at all, or have barely heard of them (and what they've heard was probably b.s.). We've barely scratched the surface with this industry. For real.

I don't anticipate Timmies offering vape stuff inside a Tim Hortons, lol. Ever. I might be wrong...but yeah, I don't anticipate them doing that. I could see the day though, where Timmies could conceivably license an official Timmies stamp to a Canadian e-juice maker, for one or two juices. The juice would not be made by Timmies or sold by them, though they may cooperate on getting the flavouring to be perfect; the end-product e-juice would be made by an established e-juice maker, but with a licensed brand-approval. The profit to Timmies from such a deal would be obvious. The thing is, this would all depend on really moving past where we are now...to a point where the positive evidence of so many people switching from smoking to vaping is just so overwhelming & in the mainstream...and the negative evidence is so overwhelmingly established as trivial & tiny (i.e. no more harmful than common caffeine consumption), in the mainstream...

...that the vape-industry will be regarded by the 'mainstream' as a 'good' industry. The fact that it will be booming, and visibly so (right now it's very non-visible), will help established food-brands etc to see the sense in cashing in on a licensing deal. For myself as a vaper, my only concern would be wanting to know that whoever makes the juice is 1) not Big Tobacco, 2) isn't adding any weirdo ingredient into it, and 3) is being completely & verifiably candid about what is in the juice (as is required by law anyway, for such a consumable product).

PG, VG, triacetin (for those who don't like PG), flavouring, and nicotine. That's all that should be in there, at the most. Perhaps a trace amount of alcohol (like if it's a carrier liquid in the flavouring - not a purposely-added primary ingredient). It should all be food/pharmaceutical grade...and regulated accordingly, as all consumable products are, for accuracy & safety.

That's my two cents. We will eventually see greater visibility of basic products in convenience stores, Shoppers Drug Marts, perhaps even Canadian Tires & bookstores. With nicotine too. But it's gonna be basic stuff in those places, and/or crap that sucks. The "good stuff" we'll continue to see online, and in time in retail vape-shops...which will range from basic, to utterly unique 'must-visit' places.

Can't wait!! Happy vaping all.

 

[Ayce]

As far as B&M stores go, I suspect, in time, eliquid sales would be limited to smoke shops and convenience stores, much as tobacco products are now. The flavours/strengths would be limited by "popular" demand due to small shelf space vs amount of flavours available. There would still be a need for online sales for those that want other flavours/strengths. The whole industry could end up regulated up the ying yang, with limited strengths set by whomever ends up in charge of these things. Hardware is a whole other matter, also due to the sheer amount of choices available. It would be nice to see one or 3 B&M vape stores in all major cities,which might happen assuming 2 things;
1: HC/FDA apporves them for mass use.
2: We survive, as a species, past Dec.21, 2012.







P.S.
I fully expect to be here on Dec. 22, 2012 and beyond.

 

[Projectguy]

Much to consider much to think on: First of all the thread was started in jest secondly happy to see a thoughtful response and more than willing to discuss and/or debate the issues in a friendly way!

Actually ProjectGuy...the ability to go "mainstream" is really the ultimate goal of ECTA. 1) Painstakingly complete compliance with the law + 2) successfully quashing the 'tobacco or medicine' misclassifications = 3) industry freedom. I could care less if vendors & manufacturers do the above through ECTA, or on their own. The goal remains the same...and the obligation to do so remains the same. But if ECTA's members do all they need to (consistently & ongoingly), and move forward in a timely manner...they will likely be first to that finish line, & its members would then have the first go at freedom & expansion.

Point is sooner or later, we're going to see relatively mainstream sales. Yay!

While I agree with you that we will eventually see mainstream sales I think we will all look back at this time as the “Titanium Age of Vaping”.

The Law: Would appreciate if someone could clearly identify the "law" that deems what we do as being illegal. Therefore I do not see this as the threat.

The Mainstream: In terms of market penetration/acceptability its already happened and happening and you know whose helping???
• Big tobacco, with the purchase of blu cig by Lorillard for $135 m in March of this year.
• Others are getting themselves ready for a takeover or IPO i.e., N Joy.
• Wall street analysts are starting to fall in line. https://www.mclaneco.com/content/mc...-news/are-e-cigs-the-wave-of-the-future-.html

ECTA: ECTA get your pads and helmets on and fall into line. BT and other food conglomerates will be playing for keeps. No not Tim's rather companies like Nestles, General Mills, etc., the real money is and will be in the juice. Big Pharma will play because they will realize they're better off playing with than fighting against.

My bet is that there'll always be a market for cheapo disposables, 510s, prefilled cartridges etc etc...in places like a convenience store. No one expects a convenience store to have the best anything when it comes to electronic goods. But they do carry some, and if you're in a pinch (or just on a budget, or don't know any better lol) it's there for you. I don't anticipate convenience stores moving beyond the "crap," because they're not about to staff their shops with experienced vapers, who have the time or inclination to help a customer choose something good. Convenience stores don't care if it's good - they just wanna sell you stuff, lol. In and out, quick.

I think and recent events (above) would indicate that BT views e cigs as their survival / next step. The cheapos won't stay cheap in terms quality for very long. Say what you want about BT and their murderous product, a vast quantity of money is spent to deliver a "quality product"; a product that burns evenly, is packaged perfectly every time, etc. Convenience stores won't dictate what they put on the shelves their corporate head office will and they Mon & Pop will have no other choice but to fall in line. Show me one Mom & Pop without analogues; if they do exist its on a subsistence basis. BT will deliver a product that convenience store corporate head offices will want on their shelves because it will drive traffic and volume.

So as for the "good stuff" like a ProVari or premium e-juice...I think that kind of stuff will remain the domain of actual vape-shops. But there's totally going to be loads of vape-shops someday. Like entirely dedicated to e-cigs and/or e-juice. Small ones, big ones, franchise ones, completely unique ones, mom & pop ones & slickly professional ones. There's no limit.

Vape-shops, i.e. retail stores...won't end online sales, far from it. There'll be both. Because there's a desire for both from customers, and so so much to explore. All kinds of juices, and so & so's Strawberry can be completely different from what's-their-name's Strawberry. All kinds of devices. All kinds of innovations & new products coming along, all the time. And millions of smokers out there, many of whom have never heard of e-cigs at all, or have barely heard of them (and what they've heard was probably b.s.). We've barely scratched the surface with this industry. For real.

Again I agree with you. But here is why I can’t buy in completely. The estimated population of Europe 27, North America, Australia & NZ (never mind China and India) is approximately 1 billion. The commonly accepted percentage of smokers is approximately 20%. Of that 20% of smokers, the most conservative estimate is that 25% will “try” vaping. That is a potential market of approximately 50,000,000 vapers. It is too large a market for the big boys to ignore and far too important not to attempt to control. Yes, for a time there will be “vape shops” all over I have a friend in Copenhagen who just today rushed off to sign a lease on a storefront to open her Vape shop. While we as a community are on the fringe we are free and this is a wonderful time of invention, innovation, discovery and victory, once we become mainstream our vape shops in large part will go the way of the corner hamburger stands – MacDonald’s. All that to say I see the large corporate model as the end game with Big Tobacco out front.

Where we are now is a wonderful time, maybe I’m a 60 year old kid but where can you email with the “movers and shakers” of a worldwide movement and get a response back not from a machine but from Phil (Taste your Juice) and Mike (Zen) themselves and engage in small talk with in real time on this very board.

Just think someone on the ECF now, this minute, today will become the CEO of a worldwide conglomerate catering in one way or another to vapers.

REMEMBER: Juice (nicotine) is the key.
• It is the only element of vaping that is common to everything vaping; and,
• Most importantly it can be tracked and taxed by government (which it will be).

I don't anticipate Timmies offering vape stuff inside a Tim Hortons, lol. Ever. I might be wrong...but yeah, I don't anticipate them doing that. I could see the day though, where Timmies could conceivably license an official Timmies stamp to a Canadian e-juice maker, for one or two juices. The juice would not be made by Timmies or sold by them, though they may cooperate on getting the flavouring to be perfect; the end-product e-juice would be made by an established e-juice maker, but with a licensed brand-approval. The profit to Timmies from such a deal would be obvious. The thing is, this would all depend on really moving past where we are now...to a point where the positive evidence of so many people switching from smoking to vaping is just so overwhelming & in the mainstream...and the negative evidence is so overwhelmingly established as trivial & tiny (i.e. no more harmful than common caffeine consumption), in the mainstream...

Completely agree with you on that score

...that the vape-industry will be regarded by the 'mainstream' as a 'good' industry. The fact that it will be booming, and visibly so (right now it's very non-visible), will help established food-brands etc to see the sense in cashing in on a licensing deal. For myself as a vaper, my only concern would be wanting to know that whoever makes the juice is 1) not Big Tobacco, 2) isn't adding any weirdo ingredient into it, and 3) is being completely & verifiably candid about what is in the juice (as is required by law anyway, for such a consumable product).

Still don’t see a definitive law / statute on the books that government is ready to prosecute on. That would be one hell of a trial.

PG, VG, triacetin (for those who don't like PG), flavouring, and nicotine. That's all that should be in there, at the most. Perhaps a trace amount of alcohol (like if it's a carrier liquid in the flavouring - not a purposely-added primary ingredient). It should all be food/pharmaceutical grade...and regulated accordingly, as all consumable products are, for accuracy & safety.

I think you’re right on. I would be prepared to bet a complete set of one of every Zenesis ever made or yet to be made that there are a number of BT companies investing none too trivial amounts of money into vaping with a pile of food companies doing the same.

That's my two cents. We will eventually see greater visibility of basic products in convenience stores, Shoppers Drug Marts, perhaps even Canadian Tires & bookstores. With nicotine too. But it's gonna be basic stuff in those places, and/or crap that sucks. The "good stuff" we'll continue to see online, and in time in retail vape-shops...which will range from basic, to utterly unique 'must-visit' places.

Dam good 2 cents but check the Shoppers Drug Marts they already there.

Can't wait!! Happy vaping all.

I’m not sure I kinda like it the way it is.

 

[RockyMountain]

Actually ProjectGuy...the ability to go "mainstream" is really the ultimate goal of ECTA. 1) Painstakingly complete compliance with the law + 2) successfully quashing the 'tobacco or medicine' misclassifications = 3) industry freedom. I could care less if vendors & manufacturers do the above through ECTA, or on their own. The goal remains the same...and the obligation to do so remains the same. But if ECTA's members do all they need to (consistently & ongoingly), and move forward in a timely manner...they will likely be first to that finish line, & its members would then have the first go at freedom & expansion.

Ask and you shall receive they say, I did not see this before my recent thread post but still the same babble that ECTA has been saying since the get go, nothing new and with ECTA losing 2 members this will most definitely put a dent in their finances even though I heard the ECTA scammed the 2 vendors that left and kept their money!! Hate to say I told ya so to those two vendors but I feel for them.

How is it that the ECTA thinks it will be the first to the finish line ????

Do the resources/finances the ECTA has outweigh those of big tobacco and pharma??

I highly doubt that ECTA will succeed at anything, since they have not done anything other than lose the confidence of the community and losing two members already, when they have not even gotten off the ground!!

This rachelcoffe seems to be a supporter and/or spokesperson, do tell us what has the ECTA done for me lately?

 

[Projectguy]

Rocky maybe Rachel should be given the benefit of the doubt that a) she presenting her ideas in good faith that these people at ECTA were on the side of angels and b) she is not an ETCA or whatever it is representative. SOunds perhaps like you were burnt by that group.

 

[RockyMountain]

Rocky maybe Rachel should be given the benefit of the doubt that a) she presenting her ideas in good faith that these people at ECTA were on the side of angels and b) she is not an ETCA or whatever it is representative. SOunds perhaps like you were burnt by that group.

Not at all PG, I don't even really know much about them other than what I heard from a girlfriend of mine and from the little I read on their site. I have however read a lot at this point about them here on the ECF, not good , not good at all. I am not sure I understand your "side of the angels analogy"? Seems to me a lot of Rachels posts are PRO ECTA and I will gander that she has had or does have something to do with them.

I just wanted to see if there is anyone else that has heard anything, doesn't seem so. It is clear that they are out two members because from what I have read they had ten, now their site only shows 8, yet no update on why, seems strange how they update when they gained members but fail to update when they lose anyone, I guess it is like any group they only want you to see the good and they try to hide the bad.

 

[Projectguy]

Rocky I don't know about Rachel's other posts, I haven't gone looking and I won't start either. She expressed an opinion it was discussed. My analogy refers simply to the fact that her position is as valid as anyone else's. There are 2 sides to every story, what's yours?

 

[albertbert]

He is right, she is friends with ecta members or something. She always promotes and seemingly represent ecta. For what it's worth, I do remember her saying she is not a member, and doesn't work for any of them.

Anyway, how do you know this isn't a one time post Rocky, and why do you care? So you joined ecf this month, and looked at some old ecta posts, and see that they now have less members. I don't understand why that would bother you, and why you would keep bringing it up after you had two threads deleted about it.

You talk about rachel being pro ecta, and connected to them some how, but what about you? Are you connected to one of the vendors they kicked out? The capitalnicifit guy was whining about it in this forum not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it. Are you the same guy?

I don't like ecta, or its members, but they are a private group. They don't have to disclose anything publicly. You said something in your deleted thread about, ecta regulating ecigs in Canada, and that they should have to be open to the public. That isn't the case though, they represent themselves only.

 

[RockyMountain]

He is right, she is friends with ecta members or something. She always promotes and seemingly represent ecta. For what it's worth, I do remember her saying she is not a member, and doesn't work for any of them.

Anyway, how do you know this isn't a one time post Rocky, and why do you care? So you joined ecf this month, and looked at some old ecta posts, and see that they now have less members. I don't understand why that would bother you, and why you would keep bringing it up after you had two threads deleted about it.

You talk about rachel being pro ecta, and connected to them some how, but what about you? Are you connected to one of the vendors they kicked out? The capitalnicifit guy was whining about it in this forum not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it. Are you the same guy?

I don't like ecta, or its members, but they are a private group. They don't have to disclose anything publicly. You said something in your deleted thread about, ecta regulating ecigs in Canada, and that they should have to be open to the public. That isn't the case though, they represent themselves only.

So after speaking with someone on the Rachel matter, she WAS employed by the ECTA but apparently is not anymore for one reason or another(makes sense now).

I had never heard of this ECTA group before I spoke with a girlfriend that knows one of the vendors that left them(evapers), I was told there is a group that is trying to get the ecigs regulated in Canada but that it is basically falling apart and that two vendors had left, I started looking into what the deal was but could not find anything other than a lot of closed threads and ECTA bashing on this forum, even less through their website, so I am asking around. If there is a group that is going to be making and or changing the rules & regulations when it comes to something I enjoy then I care to know about it. If they are a private group that is simply representing themselves then that changes things but I don't think that is the case, is it?

As far as being connected to any vendors, that I am not why would you assume that? I am interested to know more about them and figured people here may have more information, they do not reply to emails sent to the website, so it seems that there is something they have to hide.

"The Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (ECTA) of Canada has been formed by a group of electronic cigarette vendors for the initial purpose of gathering and analyzing the existing Canadian laws and regulations governing electronic cigarette usage and trade. The relevant legal information and links will be posted here, thus creating a single point of reference for the Canadian Electronic Cigarette Industry. In conjunction with regular product testing and ongoing audits, ECTA will use this information to build a clear and objective record of compliance.

All of the information and data gathered (laws, regulations, safety standards, lab results, audit results, etc.) will in due course be formulated into a proposal to persuade and prove to our governing bodies that our Industry can be regulated as a safe and purposeful entity in the Canadian Market.

The end result will be 1) appropriate regulation of the industry; 2) a clear and consistent method for achieving compliance; 3) peace of mind & freedom of choice for consumers. Everyone wins!"

Directly from their site, sounds like this is not just a private group but a group that is attempting to make changes to vaping as we know it, possibly not for the better even though that seems to be their intention. I am happy with the way things are, I don't want to pay $60+ dollars for a 30ml of liquid, do you? That is what this is leading to, you can bet on that. If you think that this ECTA thing is a private group that is only doing what they are doing for themselves then please explain how you know this? Why have two vendors left them? You seem to think they were kicked out, not from my understanding, I was told they left because it was going nowhere and they got scammed out of their money.

I appreciate any information you may have to help me understand more about them.

 

[Projectguy]

Rocky it would appear like a group of people wanting to take control. I am close to some people who got into it with these people and were actually banned from here for a short period of time. So don't get me wrong I agree with you I have no desire or intention of paying $60 for 30 mls of juice. On the thread where you and I were having a discussion one of my objectives is to, based on my business experience, try to put some ideas out there so that our community is not caught sleeping. The fact that that "e group" fell apart under its own megalomania is a very positive sign but they are not who we have to be concerned about. BT and BP have been fighting us since the git go soon they will try to be our best friends - thats the scary part. Remember what I said in the other post after Rachel said she couldn't wait my response was "I kinda like the way things are now".

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

They are a group of Vendors who are interested in protecting their future as Vendors of e-cigs in Canada. They are willing to spend money to have proposals ready to present to the Government to prove that their Association is capable of self regulation to ensure a safe product for the consumers.

They will indirectly protect our right to buy e-cigs; just as the CAW indirectly protects our right to buy cars and OPEC indirectly protects our right to buy gas! They are a self-supporting Union of Vendors. They don't answer to us and they don't have to answer to us.

If you are really interested in the recent History of what is happening and why, then you should follow the trail across the ocean and find how **** like what you are trying to spread has closed an E-Cig Forum there. Then, maybe, you will be able to see why ECF is so protective of what we have here.

We are not asked to be respectful of some on this Forum.

We are asked to be respectful of ALL!

 

[RockyMountain]

some[/U] on this Forum.

We are asked to be respectful of ALL!

You seem to know a lot about it, so you are a supporter? If so, how is it you can support something that does not have to answer to you? Seems strange.

Who is being disrespectful other than now you, by saying someone is trying to spread ****??? Is this not a forum for discussion on ecig related topics? Reel it back there big trucker, no need to get all holier than thou)

Down with any group that attempts to profit of the regulation of ecigs in Canada!! We the people are the ones that should decide, not self appointed wanna be policy twisters

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

You seem to know a lot about it, so you are a supporter? If so, how is it you can support something that does not have to answer to you? Seems strange.

Who is being disrespectful other than now you, by saying someone is trying to spread ****??? Is this not a forum for discussion on ecig related topics? Reel it back there big trucker, no need to get all holier than thou)

Down with any group that attempts to profit of the regulation of ecigs in Canada!! We the people are the ones that should decide, not self appointed wanna be policy twisters

Consider it reeled back. Lol

Relax, Enjoy!

 

[albertbert]

If they are a private group that is simply representing themselves then that changes things but I don't think that is the case, is it?

Yes, that is the case. They have no power over anything.

If you read what you quoted from their website, you will see my point. They are trying to prove what they are doing is ok based on exisiting Canadian laws. They aren't going to change any laws. When they talk about testing, and compliance within the industry, they are talking about themselves. They have no control or power to audit or regulate anyone else, and they never will.

I am happy with the way things are, I don't want to pay $60+ dollars for a 30ml of liquid, do you? That is what this is leading to, you can bet on that. If you think that this ECTA thing is a private group that is only doing what they are doing for themselves then please explain how you know this? Why have two vendors left them? You seem to think they were kicked out, not from my understanding, I was told they left because it was going nowhere and they got scammed out of their money.

I appreciate any information you may have to help me understand more about them.

I will never pay over $15 for a 30ml bottle liquid, never mind 60. What are you so scared of, it's only a handful of vendors. They won't be able to affect how much other vendors charge. I sent you a link in the reply to your PM. They can't even prevent customs from taking a huge order from them, why do you think they are going to take over control of vaping in Canada?

How is the fact that they are a private group in question here? It is a bunch of ecig related stores that made a group. What are we arguing, that they are secretly a public group?

I don't know what happened to the ex ecta members. With you and the CNF guy saying that ecta ripped them off, I just assumed they got kicked out. So, you are saying they left, wanted a refund, and ecta said no? I don't really care either way.

 

[RockyMountain]

What concerns me most and what you seem to not understand, is when the pot is stirred with HC it will have one of two outcomes.

1. They will be sick of the poking and will take down the industry as they see fit.

2. They will be taxing the **** out of our products.

They are not going to allow some mickey mouse group of vendors twist and bend their existing laws and legislation to their benefit and in turn for our benefit to have freedom to buy ecig products and for these specific vendors to sell them.

A lot of people seem to whine about prices (did not hear you whining when you were spending $300 a month on smokes that cost nothing to make but thats another story) what will you do when you do not have a choice to pay what you feel is just?

Yes, that is the case. They have no power over anything.

why do you think they are going to take over control of vaping in Canada?.

Alberbert, what do you think will happen if the ball goes the way of this group(BIG IF)??? If the government were to accept there plight, then any vendor that is not approved by them( that does not PAY this group to be a member) will not be able to sell their products in Canada.

How can it be seen any other way? They are trying to use existing laws and legislation to prove that self regulating is all they need to do to be accepted mainstream, if the Gov were to say "OKAY, GREAT!" then ECTA approved vendors would be able to sell there products, those that are not ECTA approved vendors get the shaft and would be under scrutiny for non-compliance by the government.

So in turn if this groups idea actually works all vendors would have to pay them to be recognized as compliant to be able to sell there products in Canada. This seems like the beginning of a monopoly.

You think that IF (BIG IF) this comes to fruition HC will say "ok, you guys that are doing diligence to make sure your products are safe are ok to sell and you that are not are ok to sell too" ???? NO, IF this little ECTA thing works then ALL vendors will have to comply with the ECTA. I do not want my favorite vendors(canvape, vaporgeek, jugz) to go out of business because they have not paid the ECTA to be accepted and compliant. That is BULL.....

I am confused at the lack of interest in something that will affect us all (consumers and vendors) to the point of having certain vendors that choose not to be a part of the ECTA, run the risk of being shut down, IF they succeed.