what is going on in Idiana?

[sd3614]

Luxury tax because you are not giving them the big tobacco tax they get from death sticks.

 

[Bob Chill]

What is the reason / justification (offered?) for States / Localities to apply taxes other than perhaps Sales Tax? Is it purely punitive / revenue source?

I live in an insanely tax happy County. If it wasn't for the public schools I would never live here. I will be moving as soon as my youngest kid starts his second year of college. It's nothing more than realizing the easy opportunity to score more revenue with a sin tax.

This quote from Councilman Tom Hucker frames the attitude here perfectly:

"We always have to update our tax codes. There are things that emerge and innovate, and we always try to update the tax code each year to keep pace with that. This is an industry that has been considered for taxation at the state level. That legislation failed this year. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what we need to do to in Montgomery County capture some of that revenue," he says.

It's pretty nauseating. So what the councilman is saying is that anything innovative and popular that emerges is an opportunity to tax the crap out of it.

When I smoked, I used to drive 30 mins to VA and buy 5 cartons at a time. They we're $10-15/carton cheaper. It's a no brainer. Alcohol is taxed @ 9% here AND my Country controls all distribution and fixes prices. But you can cross the DC line in 15 minutes and buy much much cheaper. So that's what many of us do. What amazes me is that our County/State is so stupid that they don't connect the dots and realize that excessive taxation drives consumers over State lines. I laugh at the last couple alcohol and tobacco tax hikes. They produced virtually no significant increase in revenue. What a bunch of dummies.

We're a small state bordered by 4 others and DC. I can be in VA/WV/DE/PA/DC in less than 90 minutes from my house. DE has no sales tax. For larger purchases (like a lawn tractor or furniture for instance) it's another no brainer to make the drive.

 

[nicnik]

I live in an insanely tax happy County. If it wasn't for the public schools I would never live here. I will be moving as soon as my youngest kid starts his second year of college. It's nothing more than realizing the easy opportunity to score more revenue with a sin tax.

This quote from Councilman Tom Hucker frames the attitude here perfectly:

"We always have to update our tax codes. There are things that emerge and innovate, and we always try to update the tax code each year to keep pace with that. This is an industry that has been considered for taxation at the state level. That legislation failed this year. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what we need to do to in Montgomery County capture some of that revenue," he says.

It's pretty nauseating.

Would that councilman dare speak so idiotically regarding innovation in a field not already subjected to a massive coordinated decades long hate campaign, which he seems to be riding the back of? I guess he feels safe that enough people will have no problem with him saying whatever, as long as it's part of the "profitable" hate attack. I agree. Nauseating.

I put the part I consider nastiest in bold. "No reason" ??? How about to not put up an obstacle to saving lives? Are some lives of no value?

BTW, at least it sounds like you're getting good schools with part of all the local tax money. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not saying they don't waste, or corrputly distribute any tax funds, but maybe some of it is used wisely.

 

[DeAnna2112]

So we could still DIY as long as we put the juice in child resistant containers. Maybe.

But this section seems to cast a pretty wide net, and it can easily be read as applying to everybody, not just sellers since it specifically mentions giving it away:

"Except as otherwise permitted by this article, a person may not purchase, receive, manufacture, import, or transport, or cause to be imported or transported from another state, territory, or country into Indiana, or transport, ship, barter, give away, exchange, furnish, or otherwise handle or dispose of e-liquid, or to possess e-liquid for purpose of sale."

I think it will take a while before the meaning becomes clear. The language is rather obscure.

I am struggling as well trying to figure out what this means for someone like me who was looking into DIY. I was going to place orders this week to start making my own liquids for personal use...guess now i am going to start buying in bulk while i can and while it's still legal...looks like vaping in Indiana is about to get real expensive...real expensive!!
I shutter to think about how bad the taxes are going to be..it's not a matter of if... but when and how bad.

 

[DeAnna2112]

Very interesting article--as we all know, Mike Pence did indeed sign the bill.

Link-
Ill-advised vaping proposal smacks of 'crony capitalism' | Opinion columns | Journal Gazette

 

[john333]

I am struggling as well trying to figure out what this means for someone like me who was looking into DIY. I was going to place orders this week to start making my own liquids for personal use...guess now i am going to start buying in bulk while i can and while it's still legal...looks like vaping in Indiana is about to get real expensive...real expensive!!
I shutter to think about how bad the taxes are going to be..it's not a matter of if... but when and how bad.

I've been DIYing for over 2 years. There is some ramp up costs but really not too bad at all. Nicotine Base is the most costly. For $100 dollar you can have a several year supply, yes several years. VG is very cheap. I got a gallon for $20 and it too will last several years but you don't need to buy that much because they cant regulate it. Also flavors are very cheap too. Wizard labs sells 8ml flavor bottles for $1.50. Find come recipes in the DIY recipe thread. You don't need a lot of bottles. You can get a dozen 30mls for I think around .50 cents each. You'll need some syringes and blunt tip needs for measuring accurately. I suggest a 1ml 3ml 5ml and 10ml or some close to that also get one each of all their blunt tip needles. You do your mixing right in the bottle so no need for anything else. It really isn't hard and very satisfying to make your own. Fruit flavors seem to be the easiest to make and require little steep time. Ask me anything to help you get started but you need to start soon. Hope to hear from you and good luck.

 

[Semiretired]

If one leads - the others will follow...

 

[DeAnna2112]

I've been DIYing for over 2 years. There is come ramp up costs but really not too bad at all. Nicotine Base is the most costly. For $100 dollar you can have a several year supply, yes several years. VG is very cheap. I got a gallon for $20 and it too will last several years but you don't need to buy that much because they cant regulate it. Also flavors are very cheap too. Wizard labs sells 8ml flavor bottles for $1.50. Find come recipes in the DIY recipe thread. You don't need a lot of bottles. You can get a dozen 30mls for I think around .50 cents each. You'll need some syringes and blunt tip needs for measuring accurately. I suggest a 1ml 3ml 5ml and 10ml or some close to that also get one each of all their blunt tip needles. You do your mixing right in the bottle so no need for anything else. It really isn't hard and very satisfying to make your own. Fruit flavors seem to be the easiest to make and require little steep time. Ask me anything to help you get started but you need to start soon. Hope to hear from you and good luck.

Thanks John, i appreciate it. I have been reading around all day and some of the local vaping businesses here in Indiana are saying this law does apply to DIYer's making e liquid for personal use as well. I am going to call around tomorrow and see if i can get some answers about this.

 

[john333]

Thanks John, i appreciate it. I have been reading around all day and some of the local vaping businesses here in Indiana are saying this law does apply to DIYer's making e liquid for personal use as well. I am going to call around tomorrow and see if i can get some answers about this.

I think the law was written to be vague and confusing. I don't think they can or will do much about people making liquid at home. How can they enforce it? The only way I know is to intimidate out of state vendors so they wont ship nic base to Indiana. As far as any other DIY supplies, none of it says anything about e-liquid on the labeling. Flavors have a 1000 uses. If I were you I would try and make sure I have a good supply of nic base in the freezer come july 1st. ha ha perhaps we should all change our location on our profiles too.

 

[oplholik]

Getting to be like the Singapore thread. Don't get too specific.

 

[pennysmalls]

Thanks John, i appreciate it. I have been reading around all day and some of the local vaping businesses here in Indiana are saying this law does apply to DIYer's making e liquid for personal use as well. I am going to call around tomorrow and see if i can get some answers about this.

DeAnna- this law does apply to DIY for personal use. The funny thing is that you can purchase all of the ingredients you need and by themselves they are fine, including nicotine, it's once you mix them all together that finished product will be what's punishable. So it seems Hoosier's who DIY have a decision to make, to mix or not to mix. I personally will be carrying on business as usual. It's going to be hard getting juice any other way I think. My favorite company will not be selling to Indiana once this law goes into affect, so....I'll be taking care of me and mine.

 

[sd3614]

So if you live in Indiana you have to risk home brew mistakes vs. getting from a pro. Sounds safe.

 

[pennysmalls]

So if you live in Indiana you have to risk home brew mistakes vs. getting from a pro. Sounds safe.

Home brew mistakes?

 

[john333]

DeAnna- this law does apply to DIY for personal use. The funny thing is that you can purchase all of the ingredients you need and by themselves they are fine, including nicotine, it's once you mix them all together that finished product will be what's punishable. So it seems Hoosier's who DIY have a decision to make, to mix or not to mix. I personally will be carrying on business as usual. It's going to be hard getting juice any other way I think. My favorite company will not be selling to Indiana once this law goes into affect, so....I'll be taking care of me and mine.

DeAnna, not sure I follow business as usual. I heard of one eliquid supplier who was pushing for passage simply because they could meet the requirements. they wont be getting any of my money though.

 

[sd3614]

Home brew mistakes?

I'm new but I understand that dealing with pure nicotine is dangerous. So the more people have to DIY that really are not skilled, it will get sloppy and probably increase the chance of someone getting hurt.Then you have the China stuff people will turn to.

They (certain states) probably would not mind it because then they can crack down on the products that make it being sold individually when this (not if) kind of thing happens and gets some type of press. Then big tobacco will really get the win.

Just a thought.

 

[pennysmalls]

DeAnna, not sure I follow business as usual. I heard of one eliquid supplier who was pushing for passage simply because they could meet the requirements. they wont be getting any of my money though.

As far as DIY is what I meant with business as usual. It's going to be hard getting juice here pretty soon if out of state vendors comply like I think they will, so DIY will be a go to out of necessity. And if you are referring to Monument Vapor they won't be getting any of my money either, I'd quit vaping before they saw one penny from me.

 

[pennysmalls]

I'm new but I understand that dealing with pure nicotine is dangerous. So the more people have to DIY that really are not skilled, it will get sloppy and probably increase the chance of someone getting hurt.Then you have the China stuff people will turn to.

They (certain states) probably would not mind it because then they can crack down on the products that make it being sold individually when this (not if) kind of thing happens and gets some type of press. Then big tobacco will really get the win.

Just a thought.

Ah, ok got ya. We can't purchase pure nicotine, it's not sold that way, but high concentrations are sold and can be risky if people are being sloppy and god forbid if it gets ingested. But on the whole it's not hard to learn to mix safely and as long as the nic is stored properly, away from children and pets, things shouldn't get to crazy, I hope! I'm hearing that cracking down on the individual ingredients wouldn't be something our legislators can really do, those ingredients are used for to many other things so....I think some states will still try though.

 

[john333]

According to the Vaping Bogan , reviewer on YouTube, in Australia they cant buy nicotine eliquid. They buy the liquid without nic then add it themselves. Not sure how they get their nic base. No real point to this comment, just to say we are not in this alone.