What is the Best Way to Store E-Liquids?

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MaDPimP

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anyone have an update on this? Im a newbie here and dont have apparently anywhere near as huge a supply as some of you guys are rolling with lol, but i still dont want my liquids to go bad especially since i just bought some backup juice to store while i work through my first 30 ml. Right now i've been keeping it in a ziplock baggie in the fridge, pulling it out, giving it a shake or two and then filling my carts and then replacing it in the fridge. Does it need to be room temp in order to refill? Is shaking bad? Am i fridging my liquid to death? If someone could help out a poor newbie i would be greatful :)
 

cassavetes

Moved On
Aug 6, 2009
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That is correct, Emsmom, I did lose hundereds of dollars by putting it in the refig. It went rancid after 3 months. The e-liquid was from Totally Wicked, Puresmoker, E-smokeytreats, and JC. The reason why I lost it was that the tempeture was to cold in the refig at 40 degrees and the refrig is not a dry envoirment with the door opening and closing.

I have e-lquid that I have stored in my closet that is almost a year old and is still as good as when I got it. The key is Cool, Dark, and Dry place. I do not post this to tell people anything else but my experience. If you feel for some reason that the refig is the place for your e-liquid---then go for it. I can only tell you my first hand experience with losing e-liquid.


Sun

::removes stash of liquid from fridge::
 

circeseye

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you know this might sound funny but i found the perfect place to store my liquid. if you have an older home that has a crawl space (raised foundation) like mine the access is in the master bedroom closet. i lift the lid have a box hanging from a wire by the opening. it always stays cool and dry down there even during the summer and dry during the winter too and the only reason any moister would be down there is if you have a leaking pipe :)
 

jcarcopo

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Aug 17, 2009
13
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I don't understand why 40 degrees is too cold? I want to understand so I can overcome my pigheadedness. A supplier I had dealt with told me he keeps his stock kept in a freezer. I fail to understand why it would go rancid if you take new sealed product and put in the freezer. I would love to understand exactly what is causing the product to go bad? What is the mechanism of degradation? Microbes/bacteria can't thrive in a freezer and external moisture can't penetrate glass bottles. If you put your bottles in a freezer it should keep the product in stasis until needed unless extreme cold causes any breakdown of active or inactive ingredients. If you take it out the bottle sweats, but I don't understand how that matters. If there is residual moisture in the bottle and it condenses then it was moisture that was in the mix or flavoring or moisture trapped in the small pocket of air that was sealed in with the product so why would the difference of a few degrees have any affect on what was in the bottle in the first place. When the freezer defrosts sure the temperature will rise, but only enough to raise the temperature a few degrees over freezing and weather its 32, 42, 52 or 62 degrees seems moot as its still plenty cold and whether its humid or dry in the freezer at any particular time doesn't seem to matter as moisture can't permeate glass (maybe the cap depending on how well it's bottled).

PG has the properties of antifreeze so the product doesn't freeze into a solid, it only thickens which thawing it out seems to correct this. PG has antimicrobial properties (I confess I haven't researched why) and is used to ...... microbes from ruining your cigar collection which is one of the reasons why humidor pg liquid is used. Among other things its used to keep cigars fresh, moist, and microbe free (i dont smoke cigars, but I noticed that usp pg liquid is marketed on ebay as a humidor solution). I can understand that these ejuice companies may not have the most sanitary or sterile environment when they prepare the mix batches so maybe some contaminant is bottled into the product and then because of temperature fluctuations and moisture getting into the product from opening it or direct contamination because a person opens up a bottle and syringes some fluid out without taking proper sanitation precautions and then puts it away in the fridge and then it slowly grows into a culture ruining the product, but even this seems hard to imagine.

Exactly what grows and thrives in PG...... a known antimicrobial?
What can thrive swimming in nicotine which is toxic and poisonous and can't possibly be food for microbes (assuming there hasn't been some weird mutating bacteria/fungus that converts nicotine into a food supply)?
I guess maybe microbes could feed on the flavoring, especially if there is sugar in the flavoring, but seems like a cold frigid environment with nicotine/poison and antimicrobial pg is not a very hospitable environment for microbes to thrive and ruin the product. If there is any vodka or alcohol added to the recipe then the chances are even more remote that a living organism is living high on the hog while swimming in antiseptic posion.

As An Aside: I am amazed how nonchalantly I can read what I just typed and not question just what the hell am I doing inhaling this stuff, but compared to cigarettes I am hopefully doing my body greatly reduced harm, but frankly I switched to vaping so I could stop obsessing over dying from a smoke related disease, not because I think I am living a healthy new lifestyle that is devoid of any possibility that I still won't end up with cancer/copd/heart disease whether its tobacco related or not. No longer will I worry and feel uncomfortable watching anti-smoking PSAs. No longer will I hate myself (as much) for enjoying a habit that I hate myself for becoming addicted to and unable/unwilling to stop for good without reverting back which only made me hate myself more. I'm sick of getting raped on tobacco taxes and having my addiction used to usurp money out of my pocket to give free healthcare, not to me, but to everyone else's children, because I dont matter anymore as I am doomed to die and disgusting slow and deservedly painful death because I am a wretched person with no willpower or self control. -end diatribe

I guess if I was paranoid and wanted to protect my investment and stock pile. I would disinfect the exterior product bottles with bio-greenclean or bleach. I would vacuum seal and freezer store only new unopened glass bottles at room temperature using my vacuum sealer with some desiccant packets to absorb any minute moisture left in the now vacuumed sealed bags/containers of glass bottles. I would place vacuum sealed product into a small mini-igloo cooler to block light and buffer temperature changes when taking product in and out of the freezer to reduce condensation and wild temperature swings when the freezer goes through defrost mode, power outages, or from people opening & closing the door frequently or leaving it open for extended periods of time as I often do because I like wasting electricity and destroying the environment; J/K: I have ADD and forget is usually what happens.

If the freezer's cold (somewhat fluctuating) temperature is breaking the nicotine down, harming the efficacy of PG/VG or ruining the flavoring then I would love to know why because I know I don't know everything and will concede to any logical argument or facts that I am unaware of.

I would much rather keep the product in as cold of an environment as possible because its seems logical, but I am more than willing to keep an open mind and humble myself to any logical rationale to the contrary. I am too new to vaping to know best practices, but doesn't any other suppliers or ejuice manufacturers have any insight or facts to set the record straight. I only know one supplier who told me he freezes his product and never noticed any issues doing so. I do not know at what temp, for how long, from what source, in what container, etc....so I am not saying he's right either, but he's been very helpful, informative, and take him at his word.

I don't want to ruin or prematurely expire my 4 bottles of Wicked Smoke platinum ice 52mg, 12 bottles of 24mg ejuice via ruyandirect, and I was also considering investing in 500ml of 36mg RY4 for safe keeping/stockpiling to give myself a 2 year supply to weather the FDA's eventual power grab or the state attorney general's potential witch hunt/banning/overtaxation.

If any scientist, know it all, supplier, or manufacturers reads this and has all the facts please set me straight so I can stop worrying about my reserves of ejuice growing legs and ending up in the landfill.

Thanks Everyone!!

Ciao,

Jonathan
 

jcarcopo

Full Member
Aug 17, 2009
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2
I would not put my juice in the fridge. Fridge can cause condensation Moisture,air and sunlight are the biggest enemies. Patches and chew are not refrigerated. Propylene glycol is not refrigerated and has no shelf life. Keep it in a dark, cool(just not hot IMO) place and squeeze the air out of the bottle and cap it or move it into smaller bottles for long term storage.


Camel snus is refrigerated but I figure its a marketing stunt.:p
 

MaDPimP

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So small update. I just got a new shipment in from ecigexpress, and while my menthol flavor, like the first bottle i got, wasnt labeled with much other than menthol 24 mg, my grape had a disclaimer saying to keep out of reach of children, yada yada yada, but it also mentioned storing it in the fridge...

Additionally, I was just thinking about the shipping of the liquid itself. Unless your ordering pallets of this stuff and are willing to shell out for a refrigerated truck and for refridgerated storage in the meantime these things are sitting in unairconditioned warehouse/depots and being shipped in unairconditioned trucks so would temp variants really be that big of a deal? I mean my juice usually take 2-5 days to arrive which isnt a huge time but especially with overseas shipping it would be in an uncontroled environment for quite awhile i would imagine...
 

DC2

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If any scientist, know it all, supplier, or manufacturers reads this and has all the facts please set me straight so I can stop worrying about my reserves of ejuice growing legs and ending up in the landfill.
After reading your post I think I am going to put my stash in the refrigerator, if not the freezer.
:)
 

MaDPimP

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Camel snus is refrigerated but I figure its a marketing stunt.:p

Camel snus comes refridgerated and sealed in the stored with a strip around the borders of the tin to preserve freshness. After the tin is opened they claim it doesnt need to go in the fridge and from personal experience it does not sit well in there after being opened... dry and disgusting :nah:
 

Kurt

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Sep 16, 2009
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To fridge or not to fridge. Here is my thinking about this, in no particular order, as a chemist of 30 years.

1. I don't think there is anything in e-liquid to "go bad", per se. It is PG, nic, and some trace tobacco compounds, and flavor. All simple chemicals that will not react easily in the cold. However, just like keeping salsa in the fridge, anything that comes in contact with the e-liquid must be CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN. Like a syringe or dropper. No touching it, licking it and sticking it in, or anything else that WILL have ambient mold, bacteria, etc, on it. Salsa, sour cream, bean dip, which have come in contact only with a clean spoon will last 10x longer than if you get sloppy, lick the spoon, and then use that to spoon out some more. I would imagine the same is true for e-liquid. Things can grow in PG or VG. Nic will kill many ambient baddies, but not all.

2. Cold liquids WILL condense ambient water vapor from the air. So if you store in the fridge, I would think it would be best to let it warm to room temp first, then open it. This will keep less water from naturally condensing on it. PG and VG have OH groups, which will hydrogen-bond with water easily, even at room temp, and cold PG or VG will do it even more.

3. Nicotine in of itself has a VERY long shelf life. I know this because my brother used nicotine in pharm Alzheimers Disease studies, and many of the nic lots were > 10 years old, with zero degradation. Expiration dates on nic gum, lozenges, etc, are just there because by law they have to put a 1 year exp date on all pharm drugs...and it gets you to throw out what you have and buy more, as a bonus to them.

4. PG or VG are both stable forever if they are clean. But clean is relative, and I do not know how sterile the conditions for packing and shipping juices or pure PG/VG are.

5. Wiki lists the freezing point of VG (glycerin) as 64 deg F. Question: can one use VG e-liquid in the cold? Does it freeze? Other components in VG will lower the freezing point, especially ethanol (vodka), water, and flavorings...anything that dissolves in it will lower the freezing point. I do not know if frozen VG is more or less dense than liquid VG, but if it is more, then expansion in the cold could rupture the container, like water-ice will. The viscosity of cold VG is considerably higher when cold (like 4x).

6. The liquids involved in e-liquids are not 100% miscible with each other, especially some flavorings. Separations in the cold can occur, but that does not necessarily mean it is bad, just needs to be shaken or mixed after warming to room temp, or a touch higher.

7. Home made nic juice from tobacco will contain plant material to some extent, as this is natural in any plant alkaloid extraction. Plant material WILL go bad eventually, like rotting leaves.

8. I would not recommend microwaving e-liquid to warm it. Reactions could occur, and we do NOT want reactions!! :shock:

So I intend to store my unopened high-nic juice reserves in the fridge, and only open one bottle at a time when I want to use it, after bringing it to room temp. After that bottle is opened, it will only have contact with very clean transfer equipment (syringe, dropper, pipet), and after that equipment is used it gets washed and dried thoroughly. Then the bottle will be closed and stored back in the fridge if it is a large amount. I do not yet know what the effect of oxygen is on e-liquid components, but I am looking into that and will post what I find later.

Vape on, brothers and sisters!
 
hello all! i am new here. just got my new 510. based solely on the reviews from this forum. i must say, i think i had a better idea of what to do with it because of all your posts.

now, back on topic.
relating to "keeping your juice in the fridge"
wouldn't this technically change the viscosity of the juice?
making it slightly less vapeable, over time.
Example: egg salad sandwich in air tight container. for 1 week. ends up dry
and slightly brittle. but here:
(cant post a url yet i guess)
it clearly says that prop-gly should be stored in the fridge.


it sounds interesting to research.
 

Kurt

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Sep 16, 2009
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hello all! i am new here. just got my new 510. based solely on the reviews from this forum. i must say, i think i had a better idea of what to do with it because of all your posts.

now, back on topic.
relating to "keeping your juice in the fridge"
wouldn't this technically change the viscosity of the juice?
making it slightly less vapeable, over time.
Example: egg salad sandwich in air tight container. for 1 week. ends up dry
and slightly brittle. but here:
(cant post a url yet i guess)
it clearly says that prop-gly should be stored in the fridge.


it sounds interesting to research.

IMHO, you cannot compare a PG or VG solution of relatively simple and stable compounds to egg salad or any complex perishable food. Food will rot because there are already bacteria and mold present in it from the beginning that start feeding immediately. e-juice at face value has none, and the compounds in it are stable over a long time. As I said, however, one must be careful to keep that solution free of bacteria. A large bottle of high mic juice that is being sampled from repeatedly over time has a higher chance of contamination than if said e-juice were put into several clean smaller bottles, and then sample from just one while the others are unopened in storage. Anything that is complex plant/food in the e-juice could eventually go bad.

I do not know about the actual shelf life of e-juice, but I am guessing that unopened TW DV Ice will be stable and unchanged for more than three years. Haven't done the experiment to prove that, of course, but based on what is in it, I don't see it changing at all over many years. You could ask them, of course, although depending on the long term legality of vaping, they may be in a position to advice getting fresh juice more often than is actually required. They are a business, after all.

Viscosity of ANY liquid increases with cold, but then returns to normal upon warming to room temp.

I am basing everything I am saying on my knowledge of the compounds present in unflavored e-juice in PG or VG. I cannot say anything about the many flavorings used in e-juice.

Oh, and one more thing, a bit OT. I would not store e-juice for a long period with a rubber dropper cap. PG or VG can soften or even dissolve the rubber bulbs...but that process should be pretty slow. I'm not talking about a bottle that you are using regularly, rather something stored for years. And yes, I do think that with the right care, unflavored and unopened e-juice should be fine for several years, at least.

As with everything else in science, these opinions can and will change if the results of further experiments and/or knowledge gathering dictate. That is the nature of everything in science. In fact, that IS science. I am very new to this technology, but not to the basic chemistry involved, although I am more than willing to discuss these details, and be stood corrected, by some of the elders here.

Kurt
 

DC2

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I'm pretty sure the two-year shelf life of juice is based on the propylene glycol...

LyondellBasell - Propylene Glycol USP/EP (PGUSP/EP)

The shelf life of propylene glycol USP manufactured and delivered by LyondellBasell when stored and handled under appropriate conditions is two years. Subsequent handling and/or repackaging by intermediaries such as distributors may affect shelf life. Therefore, the user of this material should confirm this shelf life via testing or with their immediate supplier.

A formal study showed that propylene glycol is stable for at least two years at 25° C in steel drums lined with a baked epoxy phenolic coating and protected from moisture and air. On-going studies of propylene glycol held in glass at ambient or sub-ambient temperatures also show no degradation after two years. Users of propylene glycol USP are advised to consider their own shelf life studies as their conditions of storage and handling may very well deviate from those used by LyondellBasell.


Safe Handling & Use

PG USP/EP has a shelf life of two years when stored below 40°C (104°F) in closed containers away from sources of ultraviolet (UV) light.
 
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