What is the truth about 18650 batteries?

[aliceisinwonderland]

Howdy! I will try to consolidate this the best I can. I have read... on so called "professional" websites that; "the use of any 18650 battery in any vape device is a serious and dangerous misuse, and can result in serious injury or death!". Really? 1. Do you actually have to be careful to use your multi meter so you don't over-charge or over discharge the battery every time you charge or use the battery? 2. Are protected batteries really safer than unprotected batteries? 3. If 18650's are so unsafe then what is in the internal battery devices that makes them safer or seem to be? Is that the reason people purchase internal battery devices because they are safer,easier to deal with and they are afraid of handling 18650's? I am not sure what is in an evod or ego type battery for example, but I have discharged and left them on a charger thousands of times without any problems, why are they any different? Just looking for the truth for all to see. Thank you!

 

[Eskie]

Providing you are using a brand name, authentic battery, 18650s are perfectly safe in regulated mods. For unregulated, mech mods, 18650s are safe providing you understand Ohm's law and build your coil within the capability of the battery(ies) in the mech. Almost all cases of battery failure, venting or even "exploding" are seen with hard shorts, builds that are inappropriate to the available current, or the use of poorly made, counterfeit batteries, a significant problem given how easy it is to rewrap a cheaply made battery and pass it off as an authentic brand name battery.

In answer to your questions,
1. No, you don't have to carefully use a multimeter every time you charge or use an 18650. Charge with a proper battery charger designed for the battery. Popular and reliable chargers are made by Nitecore and Xtar.
2. Not sure what you mean, but if you are referring to using the battery in a regulated mod (protected) then yes, the chance of catastrophic failure is far less than in a mech (unprotected).
3. Internal batteries are not inherently "safer" than replaceables. Just look at the Samsung Note 7

The "internal" non-replaceable batteries are Lithium polymers. They are a different chemistry than the IMR 18650s. In some ways they are "less safe" than the replaceables, as a Lipo failure is more likely to be a rather dramatic event (see the Samsung note 7) whereas 18650s are designed to vent in the event of failure. not fun, but not explosive (providing there are proper vent holes on the device). Here's a chart of recommended batteries and their power ratings by Mooch, our battery expert.

Stick with these, and you should be fine.

 

[VHRB2014]

Sounds like some kind of latent prejudice to me. Maybe. There are all number of reasons why a person will develop a particular opinion and damned if I care to figure it out.

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

Providing you are using a brand name, authentic battery, 18650s are perfectly safe in regulated mods. For unregulated, mech mods, 18650s are safe providing you understand Ohm's law and build your coil within the capability of the battery(ies) in the mech. Almost all cases of battery failure, venting or even "exploding" are seen with hard shorts, builds that are inappropriate to the available current, or the use of poorly made, counterfeit batteries, a significant problem given how easy it is to rewrap a cheaply made battery and pass it off as an authentic brand name battery.

In answer to your questions,
1. No, you don't have to carefully use a multimeter every time you charge or use an 18650. Charge with a proper battery charger designed for the battery. Popular and reliable chargers are made by Nitecore and Xtar.
2. Not sure what you mean, but if you are referring to using the battery in a regulated mod (protected) then yes, the chance of catastrophic failure is far less than in a mech (unprotected).
3. Internal batteries are not inherently "safer" than replaceables. Just look at the Samsung Note 7

The "internal" non-replaceable batteries are Lithium polymers. They are a different chemistry than the IMR 18650s. In some ways they are "less safe" than the replaceables, as a Lipo failure is more likely to be a rather dramatic event (see the Samsung note 7) whereas 18650s are designed to vent in the event of failure. not fun, but not explosive (providing there are proper vent holes on the device). Here's a chart of recommended batteries and their power ratings by Mooch, our battery expert.
View attachment 609015

Stick with these, and you should be fine.

Thank you for the terrific content of your post Eskie!

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

Awesome photo!

 

[G-Fog]

I'm confused as to why the LG HB2 HB4 and HB6 all have the same 25A and 1500mAh rating, what is the purpose then of 3 different batteries?

 

[retired1]

Howdy! I will try to consolidate this the best I can. I have read... on so called "professional" websites that; "the use of any 18650 battery in any vape device is a serious and dangerous misuse, and can result in serious injury or death!". Really? 1. Do you actually have to be careful to use your multi meter so you don't over-charge or over discharge the battery every time you charge or use the battery? 2. Are protected batteries really safer than unprotected batteries? 3. If 18650's are so unsafe then what is in the internal battery devices that makes them safer or seem to be? Is that the reason people purchase internal battery devices because they are safer,easier to deal with and they are afraid of handling 18650's? I am not sure what is in an evod or ego type battery for example, but I have discharged and left them on a charger thousands of times without any problems, why are they any different? Just looking for the truth for all to see. Thank you!

It's called CYA. The batteries we use in our devices were not specifically developed for that purpose. Even Sony has sent out letters in the past stating that their batteries are not to be used for vaping.

You'll most likely find that it's the legal departments behind the "not for vaping use" statements.

 

[Eskie]

I'm confused as to why the LG HB2 HB4 and HB6 all have the same 25A and 1500mAh rating, what is the purpose then of 3 different batteries?

Probably small changes in the manufacturing process on the part of LG. The old marketing "New this year, after bringing you the successful HB4, we now have the HB6". But yeah, same ratings.

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

It's called CYA. The batteries we use in our devices were not specifically developed for that purpose. Even Sony has sent out letters in the past stating that their batteries are not to be used for vaping.

You'll most likely find that it's the legal departments behind the "not for vaping use" statements.

Thanks for that, retired1!

 

[sawlight]

Howdy! I will try to consolidate this the best I can. I have read... on so called "professional" websites that; "the use of any 18650 battery in any vape device is a serious and dangerous misuse, and can result in serious injury or death!". Really? 1. Do you actually have to be careful to use your multi meter so you don't over-charge or over discharge the battery every time you charge or use the battery? 2. Are protected batteries really safer than unprotected batteries? 3. If 18650's are so unsafe then what is in the internal battery devices that makes them safer or seem to be? Is that the reason people purchase internal battery devices because they are safer,easier to deal with and they are afraid of handling 18650's? I am not sure what is in an evod or ego type battery for example, but I have discharged and left them on a charger thousands of times without any problems, why are they any different? Just looking for the truth for all to see. Thank you!

You've been reading way too much about mech use lately! Pushed hard in a mech, yes, bad things can happen! In a nutshell these batteries can be the equivalent of 1/4 stick of dynamite in the WRONG situation! But a lot of things have to happen for that to occur.
It's good you are trying to learn, but I'm fearing you are suffering from information overload, or looking for a reason why these would be unsafe, not sure. I don't doubt your motives are pure, but you've found some interesting information recently.
In a mech,
If you drive the battery hard it's a good idea to test the voltage after use to make sure you aren't under voltage.
You need to make sure the battery has the amps for your build.
You need to check the atty for a hard short.
And so on.
In a regulated mod, such as your Pico, it does this for you and won't operate at unsafe levels, within reason. As you don't want to use mechs, most everything is irrelevant to your needs. Everything else, the others have it covered already.

I'm confused as to why the LG HB2 HB4 and HB6 all have the same 25A and 1500mAh rating, what is the purpose then of 3 different batteries?

They were probably built to specs that someone wanted to build a battery pack around. May have been a Government contract, "Why use an off the shelf battery when we can waste thousands of dollars developing our own battery that's worse?".

 

[somdcomputerguy]

2. Are protected batteries really safer than unprotected batteries?

I don't know what the specific differences are between these two types of battery, but if in the instructions/manual/web page for any of the particular mod(s) I use say something like 'Do not use protected batteries. Use unprotected batteries', then that's what I do. I think protected batteries have a fuse in them, which isn't needed for a regulated mod..

 

[sofarsogood]

I keep my vape at 400 degrees and 30 max watts so that the LG HG2's I prefer have plenty of safety margin at the cutoff voltage. Watt's law is Volts x amps = watts. I believe vapers who choose their batteries should know how to apply that formula to the particular battery they are considering for the cutoff voltage, amp rating and max watts they intend and understand how the calculation relates to their safety. It's also a good idea to watch a youtube video of an 18650 being vented on purpose to understand why the math is important.

LG HG2's are rated at 20 amps. At the cutoff voltage of my regulated devices firing at 30 watts the device is drawing 10 amps, half of what the battery is supposed to tolerate. That difference should translate into a safety margin. I'm in favor of safety margins.

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

You've been reading way too much about mech use lately! Pushed hard in a mech, yes, bad things can happen! In a nutshell these batteries can be the equivalent of 1/4 stick of dynamite in the WRONG situation! But a lot of things have to happen for that to occur.
It's good you are trying to learn, but I'm fearing you are suffering from information overload, or looking for a reason why these would be unsafe, not sure. I don't doubt your motives are pure, but you've found some interesting information recently.
In a mech,
If you drive the battery hard it's a good idea to test the voltage after use to make sure you aren't under voltage.
You need to make sure the battery has the amps for your build.
You need to check the atty for a hard short.
And so on.
In a regulated mod, such as your Pico, it does this for you and won't operate at unsafe levels, within reason. As you don't want to use mechs, most everything is irrelevant to your needs. Everything else, the others have it covered already.


They were probably built to specs that someone wanted to build a battery pack around. May have been a Government contract, "Why use an off the shelf battery when we can waste thousands of dollars developing our own battery that's worse?".

I am just kind-of new to mods and sub-ohm vaping. I get all freaked out when I go to purchase and every website has all these warnings in red letters. You are darn right about information overload and was just hoping to find the truth from trusted vapors like yourself and others here.I am not inferring that any battery is unsafe,just are they safe and how to handle them. I am not all that mechanically inclined and was hoping to get the info in one consolidated place for myself and anyone else who might be having the same questions. Trying to keep real questions positive that's all

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I'm in favor of safety margins.

I agree.

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

I don't know what the specific differences are between these two types of battery, but if in the instructions/manual/web page for any of the particular mod(s) I use say something like 'Do not use protected batteries. Use unprotected batteries', then that's what I do. I think protected batteries have a fuse in them, which isn't needed for a regulated mod..

Thank you somdcomputerguy!

 

[Ed_C]

The reason that the ICR protected batteries aren't recommended is that the chemistry is different. The batteries that are recommended for vaping are what is known as safe-chemistry IMR batteries and while they aren't protected, are safer if something bad were to happen, compared to the protected ICR batteries.

(9) Battery Basics for Mods; the Ultimate Battery Guide | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[aliceisinwonderland]

I keep my vape at 400 degrees and 30 max watts so that the LG HG2's I prefer have plenty of safety margin at the cutoff voltage. Watt's law is Volts x amps = watts. I believe vapers who choose their batteries should know how to apply that formula to the particular battery they are considering for the cutoff voltage, amp rating and max watts they intend and understand how the calculation relates to their safety. It's also a good idea to watch a youtube video of an 18650 being vented on purpose to understand why the math is important.

LG HG2's are rated at 20 amps. At the cutoff voltage of my regulated devices firing at 30 watts the device is drawing 10 amps, half of what the battery is supposed to tolerate. That difference should translate into a safety margin. I'm in favor of safety margins.

Thanks for the info sofarsogood and I would like to thank all the people who attempt to keep their answers as positive as you do. Thanks!

 

[somdcomputerguy]

The reason that the ICR protected batteries aren't recommended is that the chemistry is different.

Thanks, @Ed_C. I will read thru that thread a bit. Honestly though, it never really mattered to me exactly what the difference is. If it was stated by a trusted source to 'not use this, use this instead', that's pretty much all I went on..

 

[sawlight]

I am just kind-of new to mods and sub-ohm vaping. I get all freaked out when I go to purchase and every website has all these warnings in red letters. You are darn right about information overload and was just hoping to find the truth from trusted vapors like yourself and others here.I am not inferring that any battery is unsafe,just are they safe and how to handle them. I am not all that mechanically inclined and was hoping to get the info in one consolidated place for myself and anyone else who might be having the same questions. Trying to keep real questions positive that's all

I'm sorry, wires must have gotten crossed there. I didn't mean to imply you had ill intentions at all, just you've read too much and your head is spinning trying to make sense of it. I get it, been there!
You're fine, you're asking smart questions and I didn't mean my reply to be snarky towards you!
Back when "mods" first came out, they were modified flashlights, "pipe bombs", screwdrivers, whatever was easily adapted to hold a battery and screw on an atomizer. NO, 18650's, were NOT developed for this, nor do manufactures really like us using them for this. But they are as safe as you make them! Use a 10a battery in something that needs 20a, you will have a problem! Same as tears in the wrap, hard shorts, I can go on. Buy good batteries, from a trusted vendor, listen to the most valuable information @Mooch has graciously provided us with, and I doubt you'll ever have a problem.
I've been around since 2010, never had a battery so much as vent on me, and I'm by no means the most careful person you'll ever meet!
Again, sorry you took my post wrong, but does that make you feel a little better?

 

[KenD]

Protected batteries are low discharge and unsafe chemistry. Do not use them in mods.

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