What makes a mod a "mechanical" mod?

[UncleChuck]

I had a small conversation about this awhile back in a thread, but I wanted to get a larger consensus of the community.

So, the question I propose: What, exactly and specifically, makes a mod a "mechanical" mod?

Two definitions I've seen people use:

1. No circuit board, just a straight voltage device, with a switch. The construction of the switch and wires doesn't matter.

2. No wires, no factory-produced switches.

Two issues I have here, what defines a wire, and why is a factory-produced switch any less "mechanical" than a built-in switching mechanism?

As far as wires, a spring is, in effect, a wire. It's a wire that's coiled and lacks insulation, but is a wire regardless. I've seen many supposed "full mechanical" high-end PVs with springs, either on the positive or negative terminals, or int he mechanism of the switch. So anything with a spring cannot be considered a full mech mod if you define the previously mentioned by being wire-free. The tube of the device itself could be considered a wire even though it's just a solid piece of metal, but I'll leave that argument out.

Then the switch issue, why is a factory produced switch any less mechanical than one that is built into the device? Most switches used on PVs are "mechanical" switches. They aren't using relays or anything like that. Just a simply spring loaded button, that when depressed, completes a circuit. How is that any different than the fancy bottom or side button switches commonly used in "mechanical" PVs?

So anyone care to explain why something like a GG is a full mechanical mod, but something like a Smoktech bolt isn't? Any comments on the subject are much appreciated.

 

[Buzzsaw46]

A GG does not have any soldered connections, while the Bolt does. I think many purists consider soldered connections the breaking point between a fully mechanical and a semi mechanical mod.

 

[UncleChuck]

A GG does not have any soldered connections, while the Bolt does. I think many purists consider soldered connections the breaking point between a fully mechanical and a semi mechanical mod.

I hadn't thought of that, so if there was a PV that used wires, but those wires were secured via pressure instead of a solder point would that become a full mech by purist standards? Something along the lines of how gennys hold down the coil wires with either spring loaded posts or locking nuts?

Obviously I don't expect you to speak for everyone, I'm sure everyone has their own opinion, and that's exactly what I'm interested in.

It seems to me if people differentiate between a full mech mod and a partial mech mod, there needs to be a defined point where it becomes one or the other. Solder points make an excellent differentiation between mods, but you could build a mod with tons of wires and no solder points.

Since I'm asking for other people's opinions I'll give mine as well, to me a mechanical mod is anything that doesn't have a circuit board or electronics inside it. Factory switches, wires, and solder points don't seem to change the basic concept at all, to me at least.

 

[StaircaseWit]

It's largely a carryover from the high-end flashlight world, as are most of the batteries mech mods use. Purists in both hobbies don't like wires, and springs are mostly avoided in flashlights, which is a hobby that's quite a bit older than vaping.

 

[crxess]

As far as wires, a spring is, in effect, a wire. It's a wire that's coiled and lacks insulation, but is a wire regardless. I've seen many supposed "full mechanical" high-end PVs with springs, either on the positive or negative terminals, or int he mechanism of the switch. So anything with a spring cannot be considered a full mech mod if you define the previously mentioned by being wire-free.

Actually a Spring is a thin ROD twisted into a coil and tempered to resist stretching or compressing. Wire is malleable(?) and able to conform to a desired path.

 

[UncleChuck]

Actually a Spring is a thin ROD twisted into a coil and tempered to resist stretching or compressing. Wire is malleable(?) and able to conform to a desired path.

Not all wire is stranded, solid wire (like used in house wiring) in a coil really isn't much different compared to a spring, it could be considered a rod as well, I don't understand how the spring being "springy" would have any effect or importance. The metal springs are made of generally comes in large spools (just like wire) anyway, and the springs are called wire springs, as opposed to torsion or flat springs, so there's that. Basically my point in saying a spring is a wire, is that it's a long, thin length of metal that is carrying current. For all intents and purposes for vaping and conducting current, a spring is no different from a wire. Stranded wire is mostly just used to make the wire more flexible and easy to work with.

I'm not bashing mech mods by any means, just trying to figure out a definite point to differentiate them, and exploring whether or not that point is reasonable or not.

 

[UncleChuck]

It's largely a carryover from the high-end flashlight world, as are most of the batteries mech mods use. Purists in both hobbies don't like wires, and springs are mostly avoided in flashlights, which is a hobby that's quite a bit older than vaping.

Very interesting, I've noticed much in the vaping world is a carryover from the flashlight community although I never knew there were people who wanted a completely mechanical flashlight. Was this pre-modern LEDs? I've been a member of candlepowerforums for years and it seems the most popular models are all regulated LED models, with circuit boards and the like. I'm surprised it took so long for people to import flashlight tech into vaping, it's a near perfect fit, even down to power regulation and adjustment.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Very interesting, I've noticed much in the vaping world is a carryover from the flashlight community although I never knew there were people who wanted a completely mechanical flashlight. Was this pre-modern LEDs? I've been a member of candlepowerforums for years and it seems the most popular models are all regulated LED models, with circuit boards and the like. I'm surprised it took so long for people to import flashlight tech into vaping, it's a near perfect fit, even down to power regulation and adjustment.

It actually didn't take long. The original 'screwdriver' design was based on the flashlight tech at the time.

Yes, pre-LED. The flashlight community was still interested in raw 3.7V battery life and minimum body resistance.

It's all regulated now, as vaping will be when the switches can handle sub-1ohm coils.

 

[ClippinWings]

A GG does not have any soldered connections, while the Bolt does. I think many purists consider soldered connections the breaking point between a fully mechanical and a semi mechanical mod.

That about sums it up...

BUT I think most people mean insulated 'wiring' when they say 'wires'... Because unless your just being silly you know that a spring is a spring and a wire is a wire.

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[USinchains]

The difference between the wire and spring in this situation is how it handles amperage. Incorrect wire gauge for the amperage requirement of the circuit can cause the wire to overheat. Heat is wasted energy and possible device failure. The whole purpose of a mech is to handle high amperage and avoid failure. Switches are fine if they're 5 amp, but a lot of them aren't, and the wires they're using in some of these cheap devices are thin and unsuitable for high amperage.

And yes, ecig mods, or "PV's", wouldn't exist without flashlights. Well, maybe they would but as it stands this is all based on modded flashlights, metal tubing, and battery boxes.

 

[Buzzsaw46]

I hadn't thought of that, so if there was a PV that used wires, but those wires were secured via pressure instead of a solder point would that become a full mech by purist standards? Something along the lines of how gennys hold down the coil wires with either spring loaded posts or locking nuts?

To be honest I would still consider a mod with wires between the battery and the load, regardless of the method of attachment a semi mechanical. I don't consider a spring a wire, I think of it as a fuse of sorts.

 

[UncleChuck]

The difference between the wire and spring in this situation is how it handles amperage. Incorrect wire gauge for the amperage requirement of the circuit can cause the wire to overheat. Heat is wasted energy and possible device failure. The whole purpose of a mech is to handle high amperage and avoid failure. Switches are fine if they're 5 amp, but a lot of them aren't, and the wires they're using in some of these cheap devices are thin and unsuitable for high amperage.

I get that, but incorrect springs can cause the same issues, look at the vamo for example, it's just a matter of using quality parts, not the specific form your current path takes. it seems to me simply using better quality parts and sticking with wires and commercial switches would free up the design of the device, instead of having to conform certain features around the switch. Using 12ga deans wire (which is used quite a lot in high-power R/C cars where we were drawing way more amperage than any vaper on the planet is) has crazy high power handling capabilities, running 40amps over a two foot length of deans gives a voltage drop of 160mv, for the lengths that would be used in a PV there would be no measurable voltage loss.

unless your just being silly you know that a spring is a spring and a wire is a wire.

To me it seems silly that people would assume that a spring would conduct current any better than a "wire" would. As I said, it's simply about quality parts. It seems odd to obsess over a small length of appropriate gauge wire, yet totally ignore the spring which, to the current itself, is exactly the same. That's the only point I'm making when comparing a wire to a spring.

To be honest I would still consider a mod with wires between the battery and the load, regardless of the method of attachment a semi mechanical. I don't consider a spring a wire, I think of it as a fuse of sorts.

So if a spring limits current and stops functioning with too much (I'm assuming your talking about hot springs with the fuse reference) that's OK, but if a wire limits current and stops functioning with too much that's bad. I understand a spring would be easier to replace likely than a wire, but simply using the proper wiring would likely make the spring the weak link in the chain. If performance is the issue, the only thing that matters is how the current views the path, if it isn't any more restricted via a wire than a spring than it doesn't matter and cannot possibly effect performance in any way, this isn't home audio where RF interference and all that is an issue with long lengths of cables.

 

[readmermaid]

To me, a mechanical mod is something that I can rebuild without PCB's or any specialized electronics expertise.

And, in the end, does the nomenclature really matter? Again, only in my opinion, I don't really care what the category definition is - I only want to know if I can fix it myself, in the event of Vapopacalypse, or am I stuck at the mercy of someone with more technical expertise in electronics to make my device 'go'.

 

[UncleChuck]

To me, a mechanical mod is something that I can rebuild without PCB's or any specialized electronics expertise.

And, in the end, does the nomenclature really matter? Again, only in my opinion, I don't really care what the category definition is - I only want to know if I can fix it myself, in the event of Vapopacalypse, or am I stuck at the mercy of someone with more technical expertise in electronics to make my device 'go'.

That sounds like even more broad of a definition, but I get what you mean lol.

I can understand that some people don't put a great importance on the nomenclature but it just seems to be better if everyone is on the same page when discussing something. If different people have different definitions of the same word, and they are all discussing it on the same thread, then people could get very confused. There are several other common terms that have different definitions among different people in the vaping world, and I've seen it cause confusion both on forum discussions and real life.

 

[dspin]

An all mechanical mod is one that has no electronics in it, needs no spring to make it work. Hence the GG is all mechanical - most veterans remove the spring from the axis post and run it like that. Spring is not needed in button switch either - this can be replaced with magnets.

The Caravela is all mechanical also. The spring in the switch can be replaced also with magnets. There are no soldered parts anywhere in either of these, hence they can run forever with just a battery added.

Soon the Polidac will be available without the pesky spring in bottom cap and a solid contact point there instead

 

[Hello World]

Soon the Polidac will be available without the pesky spring in bottom cap and a solid contact point there instead

I was under the impression that silver-plated spring was some sort of highlight pushing the 'contact' envelope into the next phase of 105% conductivity?

What happened with that?

The Poldiac will be my next purchase ... when it becomes available again.

 

[dspin]

A brass rod, or silver coated brass rod type is much better than a spring that compresses or can collapse. If the spring were to go, you cant use it then. I dont care much for the spring in bottom cap of Poldiac for various reasons.

 

[huysus]

I prefer a very wide margin between any conductor in a "mechanical" mod and the wick/coil in terms of current carrying capacity. I was afraid the spring in the poldiac would collapse if the wick accidently touched the positive post during setup. An ill-fitting spring in mine was also responsible half the voltage drop. After replacing the spring with a gold plated speaker plug housing, cut down to fit, it only drops 0.3v on a 1ohm coil.

 

[crxess]

Seems more like a debate over semantics than facts.
A spring is Not a Wire.
Even a single strand(house wire/etc) cannot form a spring and function properly.
The term WIRE in reference to spring is as to the Gauge not the Type.

A finish (Brad) Nail is still a Nail - not a hard wire

Problem with a spring is the amount of exposed surface that can collect contaminates and block conduction. a Clean well compressed spring becomes an almost solid bar or cone.

That said, I'd prefer an adjustable contact post.

 

[USinchains]

This is exactly why people need to stop with the semantics and quit calling devices with wires and solder connections a mechanical. It used to be cut and dry, but these days people are obsessing over the differences and muddying the common definition. When a person goes to order a PV that says mechanical in the description, there should be no question that the parts inside consist of machined pieces and no wires or weak contacts to worry about. To put all mods containing wires and switches into the category is what is broadening the definition and making it harder to decipher what's what, those are called battery mods and it's already been covered years ago.

That sounds like even more broad of a definition, but I get what you mean lol.

I can understand that some people don't put a great importance on the nomenclature but it just seems to be better if everyone is on the same page when discussing something. If different people have different definitions of the same word, and they are all discussing it on the same thread, then people could get very confused. There are several other common terms that have different definitions among different people in the vaping world, and I've seen it cause confusion both on forum discussions and real life.