Whats realy going on with the fda"s ban

[davecury]

We all know that banning e-cigs and juice because of trace amounts of chemicals is ridiculous. That would be like banning non-alcoholic beer because it had trace amounts of alcohol.
That's not Whats happing here.
The FDA will NOT ban e-cigs or juice. But they will require more testing to make shure its safe.
more testing = more money
more money =a tax on e-cigs and juice
Rember tobacco is one of the most heavely taxed goods you can buy. And e-cigs are a un-taped and un-TAXED market.
If the goverment could lay a 50% tax on e-juice right now,(about $10 per 30ml) the FDA would pull a groin muscle getting it aproved as quickly as possable.
And THATS WHAT THE BAN IS REALY ABOUT.
The FDA threatends a ban, and then agrees to keep the product on the market during testing.
Then taxes the product to pay for the testing.
And then approves the product along with the taxes to pay for further testing.

The FDA'sban has nothing to do with the health and safty of consumers.

It has everything to do with generating taxes $$ to study and monator a possable health problem that was never realy there.

 

[jeffakamax]

FDA recent findings: Vaping may make text appear to be smaller than it actually is!

 

[MaxxVapor]

FDA recent findings: Vaping may make text appear to be smaller than it actually is!

Extremely funny

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

A) The FDA does not do clinical studies on products, therefore cannot tax a product to pay for studies.

B) Under what pretext would a federal, state, or local tax fall? NRTs are not taxed. In NY at least, they aren't even subject to sales tax. How would an approved electronic cigarette be any different?

 

[Janetda]

FDA recent findings: Vaping may make text appear to be smaller than it actually is!

You made me laugh out loud...thanks!

While the FDA seems like the enemy, they really aren't. I'm sure that a lot of what they do is political, their main mission is about safe drugs for the public. Congress has now forced on them new duties that they really didn't want and are not prepared for. Add to that, tremendous pressure from the anti-smoking advocates and a product that does not fit neatly into any of the government's little categories because it's been allowed to free-ball it for the last two years. What did you expect them to do?

The truth is, dog food is better regulated and labeled than our beloved e-cigs and juice. Would I feed my dog a food that came in a cheap plastic container that just said "Dog" on it? Probably not. Am I willing to inhale chemicals into my lungs that comes in a cheap plastic bottle that just says "RY4"? Apparently I will. It just goes to show how much we all want to stop cigarettes, but not smoking. We need to push the idea of risk reduction on the anti-smoking advocates and push the manufactures to start taking this seriously. Then perhaps we can work together with the government to make sure we all get to continue to vape something safe and sane.

 

[Vaporer]

We all watch tv and see the multitude of ads from the lawyers on tv "if you took blah blah and suffered this or died, Call Us".

Just another class action suit on a FDA approved drug.
The United States takes longer to approve things than any other country and look what still happens.

They have years of research on ALL the components of good e liquid and approved them.
They have years of research on cigarettes and never banned them. Hmmmmmm.......

All this shows is there is a larger driving force behind it all.

Vaporer

 

[emmavoberry]

"Telling smokers they may not use e-cigarettes until they're approved by the FDA is like telling a floundering swimmer not to climb aboard a raft because it might have a leak."

Genius!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

You made me laugh out loud...thanks!

While the FDA seems like the enemy, they really aren't. I'm sure that a lot of what they do is political, their main mission is about safe drugs for the public. Congress has now forced on them new duties that they really didn't want and are not prepared for. Add to that, tremendous pressure from the anti-smoking advocates and a product that does not fit neatly into any of the government's little categories because it's been allowed to free-ball it for the last two years. What did you expect them to do?

The truth is, dog food is better regulated and labeled than our beloved e-cigs and juice. Would I feed my dog a food that came in a cheap plastic container that just said "Dog" on it? Probably not. Am I willing to inhale chemicals into my lungs that comes in a cheap plastic bottle that just says "RY4"? Apparently I will. It just goes to show how much we all want to stop cigarettes, but not smoking. We need to push the idea of risk reduction on the anti-smoking advocates and push the manufactures to start taking this seriously. Then perhaps we can work together with the government to make sure we all get to continue to vape something safe and sane.

Janet--one of the best posts I have read in a while. Very well said--

Thanks,

Sun

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

I'm a little hurt Sun...

But yes, excellent sentiment Janet.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I'm a little hurt Sun...

But yes, excellent sentiment Janet.

I did say "one" of the best--but there are many--LOL The reason I say that is that Janet points out that it is not all just black and white or good and bad, and reasonable minds can come up with reasonable solutions.

I would hope that NJOY and SE are thinking along those lines, as they could try to settle this case with the FDA, so all concerned would benefit--and not just NJOY and SE---after all we, as consumers have a vested interest here if I am not mistaken.

Sun

 

[Magestorm]

Oh, the issue is not regulation or standards. I want to look at the bottle and SEE what's in it.

Oh wait.........My lil bottle of TW DOES have it listed on the bottle, and does tests to ensure quality.

Yes, we need to get some things going. But, the responsible companies are doing it WITHOUT the law telling them that they must. The ones that aren't will either follow suit, or wither and die as people decide they want to know what they are sucking into their lungs.

Matt Salmon even said "We stand ready to work with you. You have some concerns, we do too. Let's work together on this."

But the FDA's stance has less to do with public safety and everything to do with the allmighty dollar. And they won't ban them, just pass regulations and demonize it till people don't want it.

Who's up for filing a class action lawsuit against the FDA for gross medical malpractice?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Oh, the issue is not regulation or standards. I want to look at the bottle and SEE what's in it.

Oh wait.........My lil bottle of TW DOES have it listed on the bottle, and does tests to ensure quality.

Yes, we need to get some things going. But, the responsible companies are doing it WITHOUT the law telling them that they must. The ones that aren't will either follow suit, or wither and die as people decide they want to know what they are sucking into their lungs.

Matt Salmon even said "We stand ready to work with you. You have some concerns, we do too. Let's work together on this."

But the FDA's stance has less to do with public safety and everything to do with the allmighty dollar. And they won't ban them, just pass regulations and demonize it till people don't want it.

Who's up for filing a class action lawsuit against the FDA for gross medical malpractice?

Magestorm--The FDA does not practice medicine!!!!!

Sun

 

[Big Texas]

We all know that banning e-cigs and juice because of trace amounts of chemicals is ridiculous. That would be like banning non-alcoholic beer because it had trace amounts of alcohol.
That's not Whats happing here.
The FDA will NOT ban e-cigs or juice. But they will require more testing to make shure its safe.
more testing = more money
more money =a tax on e-cigs and juice
Rember tobacco is one of the most heavely taxed goods you can buy. And e-cigs are a un-taped and un-TAXED market.
If the goverment could lay a 50% tax on e-juice right now,(about $10 per 30ml) the FDA would pull a groin muscle getting it aproved as quickly as possable.
And THATS WHAT THE BAN IS REALY ABOUT.
The FDA threatends a ban, and then agrees to keep the product on the market during testing.
Then taxes the product to pay for the testing.
And then approves the product along with the taxes to pay for further testing.

The FDA'sban has nothing to do with the health and safty of consumers.

It has everything to do with generating taxes $$ to study and monator a possable health problem that was never realy there.

I think you are 200% right, it has nothing to do with what is safe but DOLLARS !!!! for our GOVERMENT !!
All the other posters talk about what is safe but I think they are in left field.

 

[kinabaloo]

You made me laugh out loud...thanks!

While the FDA seems like the enemy, they really aren't. I'm sure that a lot of what they do is political, their main mission is about safe drugs for the public. Congress has now forced on them new duties that they really didn't want and are not prepared for. Add to that, tremendous pressure from the anti-smoking advocates and a product that does not fit neatly into any of the government's little categories because it's been allowed to free-ball it for the last two years. What did you expect them to do?

The truth is, dog food is better regulated and labeled than our beloved e-cigs and juice. Would I feed my dog a food that came in a cheap plastic container that just said "Dog" on it? Probably not. Am I willing to inhale chemicals into my lungs that comes in a cheap plastic bottle that just says "RY4"? Apparently I will. It just goes to show how much we all want to stop cigarettes, but not smoking. We need to push the idea of risk reduction on the anti-smoking advocates and push the manufactures to start taking this seriously. Then perhaps we can work together with the government to make sure we all get to continue to vape something safe and sane.

I think what we need is quality monitoring much more than 'regulation'.

Routine spot inspections to pick up on known dangers is one thing.

Saying months or years of testing is required for what is just a simple combination of nicotine with 'generally regarded as safe' grade PG and food flavorings is quite another!

Be very careful what you ask for

 

[chad]

Yes, we need to get some things going. But, the responsible companies are doing it WITHOUT the law telling them that they must. The ones that aren't will either follow suit, or wither and die as people decide they want to know what they are sucking into their lungs.

I agree wholeheartedly. The industry should self-regulate and I look to the ECA to help lead that charge. This is one of the reasons I donated generously to the ECA. We don't need mommy and daddy government to tell us to play nice. The industry can certainly be responsible for themselves.

I think what we need is quality monitoring much more than 'regulation'.

Routine spot inspections to pick up on known dangers is one thing.

Saying months or years of testing is required for what is just a simple combination of nicotine with 'generally regarded as safe' grade PG and food flavorings is quite another!

Be very careful what you ask for

Absolutely! We've got to be careful what we ask for and who we ask to do it.

 

[Magestorm]

Magestorm--The FDA does not practice medicine!!!!!

Sun

They approve new medicines and determine approved uses of the medicines. They approve new medical devices and their appropriate uses. They recall foods, medicines, and cosmetics that cause health risks. They make collective health decisions for every American daily.

But they don't practice medicine? It sounds like their primary business is TO PRACTICE medicine safety, which means they are practicing medicine. And to me, they are a primary medical provider, since they DO make these collective health decisions with little oversight.

 

[ladyraj]

A) The FDA does not do clinical studies on products, therefore cannot tax a product to pay for studies.

B) Under what pretext would a federal, state, or local tax fall? NRTs are not taxed. In NY at least, they aren't even subject to sales tax. How would an approved electronic cigarette be any different?

Except under the provisions of the new FDA legislation where big tobacco is funding the scientific board and studies to increase age for purchase and safer cigarette concepts. True the FDA normally does not do the studies unless a complaint is filed. The FDA did do a study on a few cartridges from 2 suppliers, hence our current predicament. So I can only deduce that it depends on the board's mood as to what will require clinical analysis.8-o

 

[DaBrat]

FDA recent findings: Vaping may make text appear to be smaller than it actually is!

I needed that!!

Love the Avatar BTW Jeff.

 

[Janetda]

Saying months or years of testing is required for what is just a simple combination of nicotine with 'generally regarded as safe' grade PG and food flavorings is quite another!

Be very careful what you ask for

I would love it if we could turn back time and the manufacturers and vendors thought this through before jumping in and selling these things willy-nilly, but we can't do that. The FDA has already declared nicotine a drug and e-cigs a drug delivery device. That's a done deal. IMO, the best we can do is try to convince them that these devices don't fall into their categories of tobacco or NRT. E-cigs are part of a new third category of risk reduction devices (or something to the effect). In order to do that though, we will have to show that the manufacturers and vendors don't look at this as a fun little novelty, but a serious smoking alternative. There are going to have to be tests and regulations.

I'm not saying I like regulations. My first inclination is to yell "Leave me the f**k alone and let me smoke what I want!" But then I just sound like a petulant teenager. What we’re asking for is not only for mom and dad to give us the keys to the car for a hot date, but we’re asking their permission to go buy condoms and a nice motel room. Personally, I always made sure my boys had condoms, but I know a lot of other parents would think that was outrageous.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

They approve new medicines and determine approved uses of the medicines. They approve new medical devices and their appropriate uses. They recall foods, medicines, and cosmetics that cause health risks. They make collective health decisions for every American daily.

But they don't practice medicine? It sounds like their primary business is TO PRACTICE medicine safety, which means they are practicing medicine. And to me, they are a primary medical provider, since they DO make these collective health decisions with little oversight.

Mag--the durg companies submit data and the FDA reviews the data submitted and either denies or approves. Practicing medicine and giving the stamp of approval on durg company submissions are two totally different engagments. If you have ever looked at the full application and approval process mandated by the FDA, you would find that the FDA's oversight is kept in check by the third party extensivly conducted studies that are submitted to them.

All of this stricking out at the FDA is not going to help the cause, save the day, or is in anyway productive. Just as you would want your generic durgs approved for efficency, the e-cig must go the same route.

Sun