When making coils, do they HAVE to touch like a micro?

[Phone Guy]

Are all coils made need to touch? Or if the leads are spaced apart is ok?

Most people want to make micro coils, but what's the better advantage to a non touching coil?

www.Importvapor.com

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

spreads the heat out

They don't have to be almost touching or whatnot...as long as the number of wraps give you the right resistance and they don't overlap and are evenly spaced (too close can lead to hot spotting) but they don't need to be touching or even tightly wound

 

[emus]

I like loose wound and micro coils.
Can't believe I'm saying this but I don't like hot legs.
I don't like dry coils either.
I do like twisted wire coils and cotton ball wicks.

 

[Jazzi Mike]

You can just build a regular coil. I feel like the whole micro thing is all people talk about anymore. I actually like silica over cotton too.

 

[State O' Flux]

Are all coils made need to touch? Or if the leads are spaced apart is ok?

Most people want to make micro coils, but what's the better advantage to a non touching coil?

Import Vapor

The very first time I read about compressed coils was back when I was still smoking, and doing research... I did a lot of research. This thread, this post by xMackx seems to be, and someone can correct me if there's an earlier reference... is where compressed coils all started. He did it to eliminate a burnt taste from his, heavily modded, Vivi Nova builds. In fact, from about this post forward, this thread gets very interesting.

By the way... the link to Import Vapor - what's that all about? I'm curious, because they have a "Vap-Tank" - what appears to be a KFL+ style tank, made entirely out of anodized aluminum, save for a chromed (brass?) deck insert (threaded?), and of course the probable plastic tank.
It's a very interesting looking atty - guessing made in China - but the name must be proprietary to Import Vapor, because I can't find reference to it anywhere else, including Alibaba.

 

[Phone Guy]

Local place selling some cool vape stuff, I'm just spreading the word.

ImportVapor.com

 

[Jerms]

Touching wraps became more popular when people started making smaller diameter coils with more wraps. When I started with rebuildables, most the tutorial videos showed wrapping 3-6 wraps on several strands of silica ("make sure your wraps don't touch!").

I thought it was a little odd, since the premium atties I used like Cisco spec had a dozen tiny, touching wraps in them, which was a much different concept than these 4 wraps around three 3mm strands of silica and the like. It works OK, but I didn't find surperior flavor and performance until making my coils more like the premium atties and using thicker wire.

A big benefit of compact coils is the improved heat-up time. Touching wraps heat up quicker, and a smaller diameter improves that even more, allowing thicker wire to perform well with less power than a large, spread out coil will. Also, for all my drippers with their small airhole, I'd wrather have those wraps close to the airhole instead of spread out so the whole coil gets airflow. For me and many others, mini and micro coils just perform so much better.

When the big reviewers like Todd and Phil tried compact coils after doing the other style for so long, they immediately saw the newer style as a better way to do it, which further increased the popularity of that style.

Many people still prefer the spread out, larger diameter style, but I think most who try micros and minis find it to work better for them.

 

[emus]

A big benefit of compact coils is the improved heat-up time. Touching wraps heat up quicker, and a smaller diameter improves that even more, allowing thicker wire to perform well with less power than a large, spread out coil will. Also, for all my drippers with their small airhole, I'd wrather have those wraps close to the airhole instead of spread out so the whole coil gets airflow. For me and many others, mini and micro coils just perform so much better.

When the big reviewers like Todd and Phil tried compact coils after doing the other style for so long, they immediately saw the newer style as a better way to do it, which further increased the popularity of that style.

Many people still prefer the spread out, larger diameter style, but I think most who try micros and minis find it to work better for them.

I've not found micro to be much more efficient than traditional coil. 1.7 ohm micro has unsatisfactory slow performance in 14mm RDA but 1.4 ohm micro is nice. Back in the day a 2 ohm coil in an efficient air flow CE2 was fine. I switched to micro like most but the standard coil wasn't bad. Standard coil may have advantage when very quick wicking of VG is required.

 

[Jerms]

I've not found micro to be much more efficient than traditional coil. 1.7 ohm micro has unsatisfactory slow performance in 14mm RDA but 1.4 ohm micro is nice. Back in the day a 2 ohm coil in an efficient air flow CE2 was fine. I switched to micro like most but the standard coil wasn't bad. Standard coil may have advantage when very quick wicking of VG is required.

Yes, some people don't find a micro to be MUCH more efficient, though most find it to be at least a little more effecient. I'm one of those that have found them to be MUCH more efficient. I'd actually take a 2 ohm micro coil of 28ga Kanthal on a mech over a 1 ohm traditional coil of the same wire.

 

[emus]

Yes, some people don't find a micro to be MUCH more efficient, though most find it to be at least a little more effecient. I'm one of those that have found them to be MUCH more efficient. I'd actually take a 2 ohm micro coil of 28ga Kanthal on a mech over a 1 ohm traditional coil of the same wire.

I've build a few micros from 1.7 to 1.9 and they weren't hot enough for me at 3.7 volts.

I am interested in 2 ohm coils because I enjoy 18350 mechs.

Got pic, description or link of a decent 2 ohm coil/wick build?

 

[Jerms]

I've build a few micros from 1.7 to 1.9 and they weren't hot enough for me at 3.7 volts.

I am interested in 2 ohm coils because I enjoy 18350 mechs.

Got pic, description or link of a decent 2 ohm coil/wick build?

What are you using for wire and wick? Here's a pick of the coil I'm using right now that with 28ga Kanthal A1, 12 wraps, and about 1.5mm ID on a small Cylcone style dripper. Comes out to 1.24 ohm. The same coil with 30ga Kanthal would be about 2 ohm, 32ga Kanthal about 3 ohm. Threaded with sterile rolled cotton, works great on a VAMO at around 12 watts plus on a mech.

 

[emus]

What are you using for wire and wick? Here's a pick of the coil I'm using right now that with 28ga Kanthal A1, 12 wraps, and about 1.5mm ID on a small Cylcone style dripper. Comes out to 1.24 ohm. The same coil with 30ga Kanthal would be about 2 ohm, 32ga Kanthal about 3 ohm. Threaded with sterile rolled cotton, works great on a VAMO at around 12 watts plus on a mech.

That's a nice looking coil but it's running at a hot 1.24 ohms.
Far for 2 ohm, 3.7 v, 7 watt target I'd like for near all day 18350 life.

Did you try some 2ish ohm builds?

 

[Phone Guy]

Man what a nice looking tight coil! All my coils come out F'UGLY ...

Since the topic has shifted to OHMs (thank you!) What is a good sweet spot for ohms?
Seems like low ohms (1.2) would heat faster at lower voltage... does it give comparable performance to so 2.0 ohm at higher voltage, thus resulting in more battery life? am I right?

 

[Jerms]

That's a nice looking coil but it's running at a hot 1.24 ohms.
Far for 2 ohm, 3.7 v, 7 watt target I'd like for near all day 18350 life.

Did you try some 2ish ohm builds?

Yep, don't have any pictures, but it would look be the same same diameter and wraps but with 30ga Kanthal instead of the 28ga Kanthal I use to reach 2 ohms.

 

[emus]

Man what a nice looking tight coil! All my coils come out F'UGLY ...

Since the topic has shifted to OHMs (thank you!) What is a good sweet spot for ohms?
Seems like low ohms (1.2) would heat faster at lower voltage... does it give comparable performance to so 2.0 ohm at higher voltage, thus resulting in more battery life? am I right?

Very generalized ohm experience; YMMV.

Talking about 14 mm to 22 mm RDA and RTA. 14 to 18 mm produce better vapor quality than 22 mm.

For cumulus clouds I use 0.9 ohm dual coil RTA and 0.6 ohm quad coil RDA with samsung INR 18650 20R.

1.7 to 1.9 ohms single coil (SC) works ok but vape is a little cool and heat up response is a little sluggish.

2.0+ ohms SC only suits me if extremely small chamber is used like CE2 (perhaps KFL???).

1.4 to 1.6 ohms SC is my sweet spot trade off of batt life vs vapor quality.

0.9 to 1.4 ohm SC produces quality warm vape and coil is quick.

Remember; YMMV.

 

[Jerms]

Man what a nice looking tight coil! All my coils come out F'UGLY ...

Since the topic has shifted to OHMs (thank you!) What is a good sweet spot for ohms?
Seems like low ohms (1.2) would heat faster at lower voltage... does it give comparable performance to so 2.0 ohm at higher voltage, thus resulting in more battery life? am I right?

Thanks!

The sweet spot for ohms would depend on the wire used. Higher gauge, thinner wire with higher resistance gets hotter at less power than thicker wire with lower resistance.

For instance, a 2 ohm coil of 32ga Kanthal will get hotter quicker at 3.7 volts than a 2 ohm coil of 30ga Kanthal.

Similarly, 10 watts on a 2 ohm coil of 32ga will get hotter quicker than 10 watts on a 2 ohm coil of 30ga.

Some people say they prefer a certain watts, say 8. But 8 watts on thin wire is a totally different experience than 8 watts on thick wire.

Also, when it comes to resistance, it matters more on a mech when aiming for a specific ohm than it does on a variable device like a ProVari or VAMO that can be adjusted.

 

[Phone Guy]

Thanks guys... I'm not sure I can tell the difference between ohms or gauge wire....

I use primarily my evic, but have a mech mod (or two).. but generally I use my evic.

I'm still new, been thru a bunch of atomizer styles...so far I'm LOVING my kayfun more than any other. It's easy to set-up, fairly easy to fill, has never given me problems unlike my genesis with wicking issues, tilting issues...my Fogger with flooding and leaking issues... and I get great flavor and vapor.

I'll have to pay more attention on my next rebuild

ImportVapor.com

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

I've actually been thinking about this for a while...note most of this is observation.
Microcoils have their place but lets look at it from a scientific standpoint for a moment, the issue is as follows being a solid cylindrical tube will almost zero air gaps dose not allow the vapor to exit, it gets superheated and then dispersed beyond functionality.
the only exit points are the entrance and exit of the tube leading to seemingly poor vapor production as it would stand, also the juice in the tube is not replaced therefore your technically only bringing the liquid to vaporization point at the two contact points of your first and last coil wrap.
Leaving a small gap (1/32'nd of an inch or so) would allow for the heating induction zones to be close enough for even heating, also at each contact point of the coil both left and right side allows for additional surface area for vaporization.
Ohms will only slightly fluxuate from micro coil to standard wrapping, electricity will follow the pathway of least resistance and that is the wire itself, I'd see it more important to get the wraps tight as possible to make use of the wire you do have which would give you additional surface area without wasting (NR-R-NR builds can shine here as your only heating at the point of the coil, no loss of electricity due to resistance from additional wire).
Sub-ohm vs Low Ohm vs Standard.. Well Sub ohm cooks the juice due to the high heat produced, Low ohm seems to work well at it will preserve the flavoring in the juice pretty well without any degradation to the flavor. I've not found any advantages from the next step up in truth.
.03 to .9 is sub ohm
1.0 to 1.8 is Low ohm
1.9 to 2.4 is standard
I'm a bit foggy on those so they may be a bit off, its been a while since I've had to think about it.
Higher Ohms, longer battery life...Lower Gauge wire (Size) the higher the amperage draw but the faster it heats up due to the lower resistance of the wire.
Just a thought, I have them from time to time.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

Higher Ohms, longer battery life...Lower Gauge wire (Size) the higher the amperage draw but the faster it heats up due to the lower resistance of the wire.

My correction, it won't heat up faster the lower gauge you go, what was stated previous with higher gauge=faster heat up is correct.
I'm not against nor for microcoils personally, I'm for great taste and amazing vape pretty much and whatever method or way gets me there is what works.
As I've said I don't vape by numbers I vape by taste.

 

[garpt01]

I may be "older school", but with the higher-end tank attys, (I'm not a big RDA fan except for tasting new juices) I have always found narrowly spaced coils with 28 ga. wire at 1.4-1.8 ohms give me the best combination of a cooler and flavorful vape with plenty of vapor. Micro coils, in my mind, are closer to one big "hot spot" that often tends to overheat and overcook the juice. But I use cotton a lot as well. Of course, some folks prefer the "hotter" vape, I'm sure.