Why am I so hard on attys?

[TNT]

The situation: some people talk about attys lasting months, some talk about them lasting only "1-2" weeks. Me... I don't think I've ever gotten more than three good days out of any of them (and I've been at this since January). That doesn't mean they've popped completely (although many have)... it's just that they don't vape nearly as well on Day 3 as they did on Day 1. I've tried cleaning them in simple and complex ways, with little success. Except for a few LR atties (which last hours), all have been "genuine" Joye 510 SR.

Consideration 1: The pattern has held consistent with standard Ego batteries, Ego 1000 mAh, a Reo Grande with an AW IMR 18650, and two vv mods... the vv Alli'i with a pair of IMR AW 16340s and a Provari, again with an AW IMR 18650.

Consideration 2: I can be an extremely heavy vaper. Not only do I chain vape at home, I often multi-vape (vape... vape... vape... vape... take actual breath... vape... vape... vape...etc.)

Consideration 3: Outside of the bottom-feeders, I almost always drip.

Consideration 4: I change liquids frequently.

Consideration 5: Outside of the ones I've used with the Provari, I've never done any electrical testing. On the Provari, the same atty that was great on Day 1 at 2.5 Ohms and 4.6 volts, bites on Day 3 at exactly the same Ohms and volts.

Anyhow, that's most of the story. I'm currently using a rebuildable Ato-miser and getting roughly the same results... but it's too soon to tell. The good part about being rebuildable is that it costs pennies instead of $5-10. (However, I can't see many people doing it, and if a $7 atty lasts someone a month, there's very little financial incentive because of the initial cost of Ato-Miser or the Bulli A2.)

So...

1. Do I just vape too hard and get attys too hot or something?

2. Do attys naturally decline over time and my vaping habits dramatically accelerate that time?

3. I'm a lot fussier than I think I am and always that "new atty" thing going?

4. Something else?

One other thing... if the same atty at 2.5 Ohms and 4.6 volts is great on Day 1 and isn't so great on Day 3, does that means there's more to atty performance than Ohm's Law?

Thanks for any ideas....

 

[mlinky]

Any continuity to the juices that you use? Mostly tobacco, cinnamon, menthol?

 

[TNT]

Any continuity to the juices that you use? Mostly tobacco, cinnamon, menthol?

Hmm... never cinnamon. Almost never tobacco. Very occasionally menthol. You can pretty much describe my liquids as "ice cream sundae." Chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, butterscotch, blueberry, banana, apple, etc... if you can ask the ice cream place to mix it up for you, chances are I've mixed it my attys. Occasionally novelty flavors like cotton candy and bubblegum. Crab juice is only used with its own specific atty (and yes, I do vape it every now and again).

 

[mlinky]

Hmm... never cinnamon. Almost never tobacco. Very occasionally menthol. You can pretty much describe my liquids as "ice cream sundae." Chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, butterscotch, blueberry, banana, apple, etc... if you can ask the ice cream place to mix it up for you, chances are I've mixed it my attys. Occasionally novelty flavors like cotton candy and bubblegum. Crab juice is only used with its own specific atty (and yes, I do vape it every now and again).

Could it be a sweetener?

I'm actually kind of impressed that someone actually vapes crab juice...I saw the video review If you vape the crab juice all day, does the atty still clog?

 

[Credo]

Sometimes I wonder if it's not kinda like trying to bake candy in the south...........

On a humid day, a recipe that rocked the day before can totally flop!

I think it's mainly about getting an atty primed just right..........

Then there is this to consider....as the coils burn they can change a bit chemically speaking. As the shine burns off, I suppose, and changing temps cause the materials to expand and shrink all the time...the coil might not hug up to the wick as efficiently?

Since you build your own atties...tell us what happens if you just fluff up the wicks or push the coils tight to the wicking again on those?

I keep toying with the idea of getting an Ato-mizer kit.....

I just keep wondering how those do with dripping since it's offset to the side a bit...do you drip into it after assembly, or just saturate the wicks good at set-up time?

 

[boochips]

I think it's a combination of too many juices and the vape vape vape thing...lol...also you need to let the atty cool for about 10 seconds before you put more juice in...

 

[TNT]

Could it be a sweetener?

I'm actually kind of impressed that someone actually vapes crab juice...I saw the video review If you vape the crab juice all day, does the atty still clog?

I wonder if it's chocolate-based flavors? I tend to vape them a lot.

As far as crab liquid goes... if I ever vaped it all day, I'm pretty sure I'd never vape again. It's one of those things where a few vapes now and again are actually pretty good... but enough is plenty.

Sometimes I wonder if it's not kinda like trying to bake candy in the south...........

On a humid day, a recipe that rocked the day before can totally flop!

I think it's mainly about getting an atty primed just right..........

Then there is this to consider....as the coils burn they can change a bit chemically speaking. As the shine burns off, I suppose, and changing temps cause the materials to expand and shrink all the time...the coil might not hug up to the wick as efficiently?

Since you build your own atties...tell us what happens if you just fluff up the wicks or push the coils tight to the wicking again on those?

I keep toying with the idea of getting an Ato-mizer kit.....

I just keep wondering how those do with dripping since it's offset to the side a bit...do you drip into it after assembly, or just saturate the wicks good at set-up time?

Someday, I'm going to get goofy and do a teardown of some attys that don't work, some that barely work, and some that are pretty good... see if I can spot any visual differences. I"ll probably get out my trusty Nikon camera with its exquisite macro capabilities to get a really close look. That someday may be a long time away though... I'm not very ambitious.

As far as the Ato-miser goes, I'm still very new with them. Dripping is pretty much the only way to use them.. I put some liquid in when I build it, but mostly just drip into the tip. The wick seems to naturally work its way into position to absorb most of the liquid, but I'm still not convinced that it doesn't waste a lot of juice... that is, the wick gets super-saturated, but never makes it to where it really counts. Will report more as I use them more. So far, so good though... I'm getting at least a full day out of each build (unless I try to get too tricky.)

I think it's a combination of too many juices and the vape vape vape thing...lol...also you need to let the atty cool for about 10 seconds before you put more juice in...

I think ultimately you're right. I just overuse and abuse them.


PS: Thanks everybody for the responses.

 

[Liv2Ski]

TNT I was a natural born atty killer when I started out. Damn I could kill a Cisco LR306 in 24hours. I vape between 8 and 10mls of juice a day so I guess you could say I vape pretty heavy. Now my atty's last anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. Most don't fail now I just do not like to clean when taste and perfomance drop. I do have a theory about failures and this is based on what I saw with the quick dying LR's. I would vape those things so hot even a Delrin DT would be uncomfortable against my lips. Now that means the coil is getting pretty damned hot and after about 5 puffs I was hitting it with 3 drops of relatively cold juice. My assumption is that is some pretty stressfull thermal shock and that small wire was getting beat on pretty hard. Most failures were a coil fracture at on leg (right around where the coil starts). This would be the area seeing the most stress in thermal expansion/contraction and that is where the break would occur. I changed my vaping strategy and let the atty cool in between vapes and now longevity has risen considerably. I also rotate PV's so one atty isn't carrying the brunt of my vaping for the whole day.

 

[emus]

I direct drip.
I have 510 but normally use M401.
I removed the atty bridge so I can directly see coil.
It allows me to easily inspect scale buildup on the coil.
I can even scrape some scale off coil w/ tooth pick.
I can change flavors very quick.

Not as easy w/ 510 but I think you could remove atty bridge from one of your under performers to inspect and clean coil.

 

[TNT]

TNT I was a natural born atty killer when I started out. Damn I could kill a Cisco LR306 in 24hours. I vape between 8 and 10mls of juice a day so I guess you could say I vape pretty heavy. Now my atty's last anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. Most don't fail now I just do not like to clean when taste and perfomance drop. I do have a theory about failures and this is based on what I saw with the quick dying LR's. I would vape those things so hot even a Delrin DT would be uncomfortable against my lips. Now that means the coil is getting pretty damned hot and after about 5 puffs I was hitting it with 3 drops of relatively cold juice. My assumption is that is some pretty stressfull thermal shock and that small wire was getting beat on pretty hard. Most failures were a coil fracture at on leg (right around where the coil starts). This would be the area seeing the most stress in thermal expansion/contraction and that is where the break would occur. I changed my vaping strategy and let the atty cool in between vapes and now longevity has risen considerably. I also rotate PV's so one atty isn't carrying the brunt of my vaping for the whole day.

I agree pretty much with what you're saying, except that most often, my attys don't actually break... they just aren't very interesting anymore.

So, this question: When taste and performance drop and you change attys, do you think, "Ah, that makes it a little better," or is is it, "Wow... until I put the new atty on, I ddin't realize just how much taste and performance had dropped?"

 

[hairball]

1. You need to rotate between a couple of PV's to allow cool time.

2. Yes they will die eventually.

3. New atty's are great after an hour breakin time.

4. Cleaning your atomizers can prolong the life. Getting them clogged will cause premature death.

 

[Liv2Ski]

I agree pretty much with what you're saying, except that most often, my attys don't actually break... they just aren't very interesting anymore.

So, this question: When taste and performance drop and you change attys, do you think, "Ah, that makes it a little better," or is is it, "Wow... until I put the new atty on, I ddin't realize just how much taste and performance had dropped?"

Well if they are not breaking then they are most likely getting gunked up on the chocolate you like so much. Have you tried dry burning????

I have been through enough attys so on your second question it is pretty much "man that is a good and it was definately time for a new atty". I run Cisco LR 1.5 mostly and once that pissssssssst whhhoooosssssh sound drops off your pretty much know it is time for a new atty. In NY smokes are $10 a pack so if an atty goes 6+ weeks I am happy to cahnge it out. I like the Ciscos so much I have over 50 in inventory at the momement. Happy vapes and I am hopeful you can find your grove and get some longer life out of those atty's of yours

On another note I have found when one gets weak on a 3.7 device I will drop it on a VV and hit it with more voltage. That whips it into shape for about another week or so

 

[TNT]

Well if they are not breaking then they are most likely getting gunked up on the chocolate you like so much. Have you tried dry burning????

I have been through enough attys so on your second question it is pretty much "man that is a good and it was definately time for a new atty". I run Cisco LR 1.5 mostly and once that pissssssssst whhhoooosssssh sound drops off your pretty much know it is time for a new atty. In NY smokes are $10 a pack so if an atty goes 6+ weeks I am happy to cahnge it out. I like the Ciscos so much I have over 50 in inventory at the momement. Happy vapes and I am hopeful you can find your grove and get some longer life out of those atty's of yours

On another note I have found when one gets weak on a 3.7 device I will drop it on a VV and hit it with more voltage. That whips it into shape for about another week or so

Yes, I think they're getting gunked up with something. I've tried dry burning and a lot of other things, but I've found the results very short lasting.

One thought is that since no one else seems to be reporting the same type of experience I'm having... it's got to be something I'm doing. As many attys as I've bought, it's unlikely to be an extraordinary streak of bad luck in buying bum attys.

Oh, well. I'm trying to find the time for the Great Atty Teardown with photographs by Nikon. I don't have a fancy camera... pretty much it's the cheapest available... but after doing a lot of macro photography with it, I find I see things in the photos I've taken of other stuff (flowers, insects, etc.) I'd never noticed even with a magnifying glass. Just have to find the time with good natural light to go outside and take some serious close ups.

For the moment, I'll stick with the Ato-miser. It's been working okay, but, as I've said, I can't see a whole lot of people getting into rebuilding atties, and if the typical user gets a month or two out of standard Joye (or other brands) isn't really much, if any, savings.

Here's the funny (and good) part... even with my troubles, I find I'm not even thinking about real cigs anymore... I'm thinking more about improving the e-cig as much as I can. I"m over 100 days away from my last Pall Mall, and really, I almost never think about them.

PS: You say you spend $10 a pack and get six weeks out of an atty... I spend $5 a pack... if I got three weeks out of any atty, I'd be pretty much without worries on the vaping front. Even getting barely over a month out of $125 in atties is cheaper than cigs... but this has brought out one of my rare "mad scientist" moments.

 

[mwa102464]

I use to always have a stock of 100 Atty's or so a long time ago, but today things seem to be getting better and better as advances are made. I no longer think its such a wise thing to do stocking so many Attys "just my personal opinion" but I'm finding as new tech comes out the better Atty's will get so to have 100 like I use to in stock is just not wise for me any longer. There is another new one that just came out called the maelstrom I believe and I have some on the way that are supposed to be the best yet ( there is a best yet every week now in the vape world it seems), time will tell of course but things are seeming to get better as time goes on so stocking up to me on a whole lot of product is a thing of the past for me, especially when orders hit my doorstep in 3-5 days, it just doesn't make sense and is a waste of money with better and better coming every week or month.

 

[Liv2Ski]

I use to always have a stock of 100 Atty's or so a long time ago, but today things seem to be getting better and better as advances are made. I no longer think its such a wise thing to do stocking so many Attys "just my personal opinion" but I'm finding as new tech comes out the better Atty's will get so to have 100 like I use to in stock is just not wise for me any longer. There is another new one that just came out called the maelstrom I believe and I have some on the way that are supposed to be the best yet ( there is a best yet every week now in the vape world it seems), time will tell of course but things are seeming to get better as time goes on so stocking up to me on a whole lot of product is a thing of the past for me, especially when orders hit my doorstep in 3-5 days, it just doesn't make sense and is a waste of money with better and better coming every week or month.

So please link this maelstrom you speak of. The atty stock I have is a remenant of the cutover to Cisco taking control of his own product. When they started getting scarce I sort of freaked and bought 10 from one vendor, 5 from another etc. Then when he came on line I bought a few more just to be sure. The 306 is my main atty. I have not purchased and atty in well over 4 months now and I agree keeping a big inventory with so many advances coming is probably not smart, unless you see a shortage coming then stock up.