Why drain the batts?

[travde]

Form what I know about Lithium-ion batteries draining them is not a good idea. I am under the impression that most if not all e-cigs are Li-ion.

You see the idea of draining a battery is because of NiCd. This type of battery outputs a good voltage all the way up till it is almost dead. This makes it work well for say a drill. NiCd has a problem of growing air bubbles on the plate in the battery if not fully drained and charged each time. This would lower the surface area on the plate and lower the overall power of the battery.

Li-ion batteries age differently. They age at about the same rate each year. It does not matter much if you use it allot or none at all. The loss of power over time is about the same. What does age the battery is:
Draining the battery below a certain voltage (too far)
Heat
Overcharging
From what I understand a Li-ion bat likes to be charged as much as possible at very small amounts to keep it toped up.

 

[VapingSA]

I agree with you on some of the points you made. I know that draining the battery below a certain point will make that battery entirely unusable in the case of a li-ion. You can try what you want you can't charge it again, so I think the the microchip in the e-cig controls the cut-off voltage of the batt. I have the Janty Dura-C and the batteries on them stop dead at a certain point.

Isn't overcharging suppose to be prevented by the charger itself, like a cellphone batt which is also li-ion. I keep both my cellphones on the charger overnight and their batteries last better then other people who stops charging them when they are full. Maybe this is the same with the e-cig.

Hope that helped.

 

[Vaporer]

NiCd batteries will develop a "memory", will not discharge properly while still appearing fully charged and failed to discharge all the way if not "cycled" (drained). NiMH pretty much settled that issue.
Lithium came along and retains no memory and can still pack a good charge/discharge rate.
Lithium rechargeables should never be charged above 4.2v or allowed to drain below 2.9v or damage WILL occur.
The micro controller solves this issue for the user. Normally the low cutoff is 3.0v and the high cutoff is 4.15v.

Also, beware of swapping diff brands of ecigs in other brand chargers.
Many are "tip positive" but I recently found one that is "tip negative" and the threads are identical !8-o
I'd hope the micro controller would see this to prevent damage to the battery or charger, but I wouldn't bet my equip on it without a schematic....
I'd be happy if this was standardized so people didn't need 4 chargers sitting around. Does anyone own just one ecig????? lol
I can check mine, but many people don't have a meter to do this.


Tony

 

[caesar]

Everything sounds good but this part:

From what I understand a Li-ion bat likes to be charged as much as possible at very small amounts to keep it toped up.

Only Acid and Nickel chemistry is allowed to be topped up, Lithiums stay at 4.2V at least a week after being charged.
Nickel must be topped up (trickle charged to keep its charge, they discharge fast), acid batteries clean their electrodes if a little overcharged and perform better.

If you top up unprotected lithium batteries they will get hot and then burst into flames, that's a known fact and downside of this chemistry. Lithiums must be treated carefully.

I keep both my cellphones on the charger overnight and their batteries last better then other people who stops charging them when they are full. Maybe this is the same with the e-cig.

Almost right, you phone performs better because it takes power from the charger until disconnected so the battery is not drained during the night.
A cig will perform the same because the battery is not used until put into a cigarette.

 

[Kelemvor]

i think you got travde a bit wrong, i am sure he just mean that you can recharge lithium batteries very early. you don't have to wait until its cutoff from the device or the device produces poor vapor.

btw, a battery specified for 3.6V seems topped up everytime if the chargers stop at 4.15V
maybe thats where the confusion starts.

charge early, charge often. period.

somewhere here is a sticky about batteries and the best link in there goes to
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

take a look, if you have the choice and are not in a hurry , use the charger with the lower current. your battery will live longer and more important, gets more charge per cycle.

 

[travde]

i think you got travde a bit wrong, i am sure he just mean that you can recharge lithium batteries very early. you don't have to wait until its cutoff from the device or the device produces poor vapor.

......

charge early, charge often. period.

Yea
10chr

 

[happily]

yes you can charge them as often as you like..............these batteries are protected though, so they won't overcharge or undercharge (which will kill them)

 

[Vaporer]

travde,

You can charge the e cigs battery at anytime. No need to run it down till cutoff and like
Kelemvor stated, the slower the charge the longer the battery life. It will take longer to charge, but the "rapid" chargers do take long term life from the battery.

A 180ma battery as seen in some e cigs if full charged from "cutoff" in 1 hr is considered a 1C charge rate. (Full charge in 1 hr). Anything above/faster than this is harmful. If it takes 2 hrs to charge then it's probably abt a 90ma charging rate and so on.

Remember, that only applies to batteries ran to cutoff. If you used yours for 1/2hr and it fully charged back up in 20 min, don't panic, it wasnt fully down.;-)

Hope this helps,

Tony

 

[webtaxman]

Any different advice for the manual pen style or 510 batteries? The one's with the manual switch? --which essentially means there is no cutoff?

Bet the atomizer would go first...no? I have 2 Joye 510s on order from ruyandirect. $32.00 --It would be irresponsible of me not to take that offer! I'd like to burn them up just slighlty before the 6 month warranty period 8-o

Mike

 

[Vaporer]

I don't have a 510.........yet lol.
I'd say it uses a lithium based battery, but you pose a valid question.

My best guess is at 3v, where the autos need to cutoff by, it won't get hot enough to vape before then. The autos are probably blinking above 3v.

When testing a new atty of mine, it measured 3.4ohms. Pretty consistant with all I've read here. At 3v (2 AA's) it wouldn't glow red, just some noticeable heat.
My best guess from that test is it will not vape before reaching a damaging low voltage.

Tony

 

[caesar]

At 3v (2 AA's) it wouldn't glow red, just some noticeable heat.
My best guess from that test is it will not vape before reaching a damaging low voltage.

No, it will not vape but if the protection doesn't kick in then the battery is still drained.

Of course there is protection built in, so that isn't a problem. The led should blink.

 

[VapingSA]

Thanks for all the replies, helps to know that the microchip pretty much protects the battery against any damage.

I know this is a bit off topic, but just a quick question:

Has anyone used TW liquids with a Dura-C, the manual says to use only Janty liquid and so on and so forth, but I mean, don't these liquids get made from pretty much the same stuff, just more or less of certain components.

I am in South Africa and the e-cig only came here a few months ago, so the suppliers are very limited and I was thinking of buying and importing from TW (totally wicked).

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Vaporer]

caesar,

As I stated, I'm not familiar with the 501 manual setup. Good to know it's well designed.
My point was that if wasn't glowing at 3v it surely wouldn't vape and you'd charge it before it went below the 2.9v.
If its not vaping wouldn't a person check for dryness or a quick bump for the glow?

Tony

 

[caesar]

My point was that if wasn't glowing at 3v it surely wouldn't vape and you'd charge it before it went below the 2.9v.
If its not vaping wouldn't a person check for dryness or a quick bump for the glow?

Sorry, didn't get it. You are right, one would notice first that it doesn't vape.

 

[happily]

Any different advice for the manual pen style or 510 batteries? The one's with the manual switch? --which essentially means there is no cutoff?

Bet the atomizer would go first...no? I have 2 Joye 510s on order from ruyandirect. $32.00 --It would be irresponsible of me not to take that offer! I'd like to burn them up just slighlty before the 6 month warranty period 8-o

Mike

auto battery cutoff is just a safety switch for the atomizer,,,,,,the cutoff we're talking about is the undercharge li ion battery low volt cutoff. Which protects the battery from going too low in voltage and exploding.

Mine cutout somewhere in the 3.3v range, start blinking and lockout to 0v until you recharge them

As for the 6 month warranty keep in mind they are $7 atomizers and you will have to ship them back to china. If you get six months out of an atomizer, I would bronze it and put it on the fireplace.(or send it up to cooperstown)

 

[happily]

Thanks for all the replies, helps to know that the microchip pretty much protects the battery against any damage.

I know this is a bit off topic, but just a quick question:

Has anyone used TW liquids with a Dura-C, the manual says to use only Janty liquid and so on and so forth, but I mean, don't these liquids get made from pretty much the same stuff, just more or less of certain components.

I am in South Africa and the e-cig only came here a few months ago, so the suppliers are very limited and I was thinking of buying and importing from TW (totally wicked).

Any help would be much appreciated.

They merely say only use my liquid for warranty purposes and to get more business. Kinda like Prell shampoo, use with Prell conditioner.

 

[Shopchops]

I agree with you on some of the points you made. I know that draining the battery below a certain point will make that battery entirely unusable in the case of a li-ion. You can try what you want you can't charge it again, so I think the the microchip in the e-cig controls the cut-off voltage of the batt. I have the Janty Dura-C and the batteries on them stop dead at a certain point.

Isn't overcharging suppose to be prevented by the charger itself, like a cellphone batt which is also li-ion. I keep both my cellphones on the charger overnight and their batteries last better then other people who stops charging them when they are full. Maybe this is the same with the e-cig.

Hope that helped.

From what I read in both the Gamucci and the SS Choice No. 9 brochures, they say to charge the battery 8 hours the FIRST time. Then after that, then they will charge fully in 3-4 hours.