Why, oh why do all my juices suck!!

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Mattpelt30

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I started diy a couple weeks ago, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I steeped some for 2 weeks, I've tried hot water baths,added this flavor, and that flavor, different nic levels, diluted water, different things to cut with and I have only one flavor I would call a mild success(chocolate/caramel). All the flavors I have are tfa. The tobaccos are perfumey and floral tasting. Even the ones I've steeped are still floral tasting(not as bad, but still floral) I tried the dk555 and it is really strong but tastes nothing like what I'm used too. I miss the good vendor juice I've tried different percentages as well. Something has to give!! The ry4 I got is called type1. It's very perfumey. I am awaiting shipment of some more flavors. I have about 10 more coming. Got double ry4, graham cracker and some other assorted ones. I wanna get this right because I know it's way cheaper and great juice can be achieved, but as for now, my juices suck. Anyone else have this problem in the beginning? What really opened it up for you??


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Mattpelt30

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The ry4 double is excellent and hard to mess up. Add a drop of ap and a few others, and it's delightful. Much better than the other TFA ry4s imo.

I don't have any ap, I have cotton candy flavoring, can I substitute with that?


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Mattpelt30

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"Cotton Candy" mutes flavors - sometimes considerably. If you added EM (Cotton Candy) to your attempts, that could be all/part of the problem.

I think part of the problem is I've been told by others that cotton candy acts as a sweetener lol, and to throw some in. I've only used it in a couple batches, I've made around 10 5 ml batches using 100% pg based nic with vg added as the "filler" I guess you could say. The nic base is 48mg that I use, with an end result of 12-18mg after mixing, as far as flavor percentages, I've used as low as 2% and as high as 25%. The one that came out decent was 15%chicolate, 10%caramel with a couple drops of vanilla, it was 18mg strength and it's the only one that I water bathed about 5 times. The throat hit is there on all of them, the flavor just sux on the tobaccos, and I'm a tobacco vaper. What sort of add ons do I need?

P.s- I got wizard labs nic

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Mattpelt30

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The flavors I used were dk555 at 2%, I used cotton candy as a stand alone at 10%, used ry4- type1@10% with 2%vanilla burbon,and2%caramel(it's really perfumey) I think it's mainly the floral taste of the tobaccos I don't like, I also used mtype tobacco- not sure the percentage it was one of the first I tried to make


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we2rcool

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Yes, EM/cotton candy is referred to as a "sweetener" FAR too often. It should be referred to as an "additive", which smooths/softens, adds body/thickness, mutes flavors, and can be a sweetener. But it's only a sweetener if the flavors one is adding it to are less sweet than the EM/cotton candy! EM/cotton candy is not sweet enough to truly sweeten most flavors - but if you add too much of it you'll definitely get a burnt-brown-sugar taste.

Lemon juice and vinegar are often times suggested to enhance flavor....and they do, but temporarily. It's been shown several times that while they do temporarily enhance flavor, after a few days/weeks, the flavor definitely degrades. The same is true of sucralose.

We've been DIYing for almost a year (quite successfully), and we've only added "sweetener" (sucralose) to one juice...and within days, the flavor diminished substantially.

The best advise anyone can offer a newbie is to stay totally away from any additives until you *know your flavor*. Using additives can easily cause you to have to add 10-50% more 'flavor' - which wastes money, causes you to inhale more chemicals, and is extremely frustrating.

The flavors I used were dk555 at 2%, I used cotton candy as a stand alone at 10%, used ry4- type1@10% with 2%vanilla burbon,and2%caramel(it's really perfumey) I think it's mainly the floral taste of the tobaccos I don't like, I also used mtype tobacco- not sure the percentage it was one of the first I tried to make


The RY41 is known to be flowery/perfumey. The M-type is just plain wicked-intense (some say wicked-wonderful, some say wicked-vile) and should be used for starters, at substantially less than 1%. Better yet, just put 2 drops of M-type in 10ml of VG, mix it thoroughly...then use that at very small percentages.

To us, the DK555 is too weak around 2%...4% is more-better to us. But you'll see people using it at much higher percentages.

Here is a compiled list of suggested flavor percentages for TFA flavors (post #1758) http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread-44.html Keep in mind, that MANY people poured in the sucralose, EM, additives on their "tests", so the percentages they liked & suggested were crazy high.

The general concensus amongst DIYers? Tobaccos, coffees & chocolates are the hardest mixes to "get right". So don't beat yourself up. Just keep reading, learning, asking and mixing - because the more you read and learn, the faster you'll be a pro!
 

dead not sleeping

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I use EM along with a sweet strawberry or sweet tangerine in my DRY4 to sweeten a bit @ .5% each tops. You don't taste the fruit, and if at all just a touch and the sweet comes through. I have no luck with EM over 1%, its a sweet helper imo not a stand alone. Vanilla's go well with the RY's also. TFA's RY Asian has a bit more spice to it and goes well with fruit flavors that go with spices, like apple or pineapple. I make an RY Asian with quince and apple that's killer, tastes like a sweet spiced pear. Quince is an interesting flavor I don't hear much about. Smells strong, and it is, but I have good luck @ 2.5% in my mix. It does not go well with koolada, it has a cool to it all its own.
 

Hoosier

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We2cool gave some great advice.

The first question that pops to my mind when I read, "All my....tastes...", is, "What do your bases taste like without flavoring?"

What does your base taste like without any flavoring? There might be something wrong that is imparting a taste to everything you make.
So, what does a flavorless 12mg/ml of your nic, PG & VG taste like?
What does your plain VG taste like?
What does your plain PG taste like?

Drop some in a dripper, vape, and see if there is an issue with the bases.

If you have skunk water, it doesn't matter what kind of powdered drink mix you drop in it, it will still taste bad...
 

FACE MEAT

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I don't have any ap, I have cotton candy flavoring, can I substitute with that?


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Substituting Acetyl Pyrazine with Ethyl Maltol would be like substituting salt with sugar. They impart completely different flavors.

At low levels, AP will add an earthy breadiness. At higher levels, it'll taste like Fritos.

At low levels, EM will add a moist body. At higher levels, it'll taste like cotton candy.
 
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