wick size

[AndriaD]

Well, I thought the cotton yarn test was going well - but alas it has turned to bite me. My simple test of using cotton as a secondary/ additional flavor wick to help reduce leaking and flooding is failing as I'm getting that periodic taste of burnt / singed cotton.
Strange thing though - one flavor that was tasting of burnt / singed cotton has stopped for now and one flavor has started to taste terribly of burnt/ singed cotton - no idea why.

So, my idea to add 2 strands of a piece of yarn on top of the existing silica flavor wick looks not so promising. No leaks , gurgling etc... but bad taste from the cotton. Someone at the local BM store stated that cotton balls will resolve the issue - instead of cotton yarn - I don't see how.
I'm guessing that cotton won't work for my Kanger T3S BCC if the yarn can't survive above the silica flavor wicks without burning.

I wonder how so many people are able to use cotton without this burnt taste in mods, plain tanks and so many applications....?

I think maybe it's because the heads in these T3S's are so tiny, and the flavor wick is kinda compressed right down onto the coil, it confines the heat to such a small space, so it burns easily. Best I can come up with. And maybe that's true, about using loose cotton instead of yarn; eventually, when I get a real rebuildable, I may give it a whirl and see how it goes. That does sound like a really large amount of flavor wicking; I was actually considering trying to use *just* 2 strands of the yarn as the flavor wick, now that I've built my own coils; maybe it wouldn't leak so badly with a well-made coil, instead of one of these cheapie factory made coils. I dunno, I've had to lay off the coil building while I await that ekowool. It still didn't arrive, so I did let Sean at LightningVapes know, and he expedited a replacement for me, priority mail -- that is serious customer service! I should probably have it Friday-ish.

Andria

 

[picowatt]

I think maybe it's because the heads in these T3S's are so tiny, and the flavor wick is kinda compressed right down onto the coil, it confines the heat to such a small space, so it burns easily. Best I can come up with. And maybe that's true, about using loose cotton instead of yarn; eventually, when I get a real rebuildable, I may give it a whirl and see how it goes. That does sound like a really large amount of flavor wicking; I was actually considering trying to use *just* 2 strands of the yarn as the flavor wick, now that I've built my own coils; maybe it wouldn't leak so badly with a well-made coil, instead of one of these cheapie factory made coils. I dunno, I've had to lay off the coil building while I await that ekowool. It still didn't arrive, so I did let Sean at LightningVapes know, and he expedited a replacement for me, priority mail -- that is serious customer service! I should probably have it Friday-ish.

Andria

Yes, that flavor coil is darn close to the heating element. I just can't see how so many people use it as a wick though if it is so heat sensitive. I think I am buying the Vamo and Kayfun 3.1 and ditching the T3S stuff.
I really just wanted to avoid "silica particles" that may or may not be in the air stream and may or may not be small enough to enter into areas of the lung where they can cause permanent damage. It is certainly an art - science perhaps for the mfg. of the devices.
Also the possible "nano-particles" of metal that may or may not be present from the presence of solder joints in the factory T3S coils.
Can't be simple....

 

[picowatt]

I think maybe it's because the heads in these T3S's are so tiny, and the flavor wick is kinda compressed right down onto the coil, it confines the heat to such a small space, so it burns easily. Best I can come up with. And maybe that's true, about using loose cotton instead of yarn; eventually, when I get a real rebuildable, I may give it a whirl and see how it goes. That does sound like a really large amount of flavor wicking; I was actually considering trying to use *just* 2 strands of the yarn as the flavor wick, now that I've built my own coils; maybe it wouldn't leak so badly with a well-made coil, instead of one of these cheapie factory made coils. I dunno, I've had to lay off the coil building while I await that ekowool. It still didn't arrive, so I did let Sean at LightningVapes know, and he expedited a replacement for me, priority mail -- that is serious customer service! I should probably have it Friday-ish.

Andria

I ordered 100 ft. of 32ga. kanthal . Decided even though it burns through faster it is pretty versatile. Hope you get the ekowool soon.

 

[Zphinx]

Cotton wigs burn easy, what I do on my Kayfun is the following:

1) my coil will get built and dry burned for a couple of times at max voltage.
2) then I I compress it and measure it to make sure I hit the Ohms I want.
3) now I wig it and prime the cotton well.
4) assemble the Kayfun and fill it with Juice
5) the first hits on the Kayfun will be at a very low voltage, knowing that I could go above (easy) of 10.0 V
a) so I start at 6.5 in increments of 0.5 volts, I take a couple puffs until I hit 8.0 where I stay for a bit and then increase it to 10.0 in increments of 0.5

This way the wig doesn't burn, and for me it works each time. I also had this sweet burned taste on my new coils and wigs and got me so frustrated until I did it that way and from now on its a walk in the park.

I hope that sheds some light into whats going on with your setup, maybe you can apply it with your setup and work it out.

 

[AndriaD]

Cotton wigs burn easy, what I do on my Kayfun is the following:

1) my coil will get built and dry burned for a couple of times at max voltage.
2) then I I compress it and measure it to make sure I hit the Ohms I want.
3) now I wig it and prime the cotton well.
4) assemble the Kayfun and fill it with Juice
5) the first hits on the Kayfun will be at a very low voltage, knowing that I could go above (easy) of 10.0 V
a) so I start at 6.5 in increments of 0.5 volts, I take a couple puffs until I hit 8.0 where I stay for a bit and then increase it to 10.0 in increments of 0.5

This way the wig doesn't burn, and for me it works each time. I also had this sweet burned taste on my new coils and wigs and got me so frustrated until I did it that way and from now on its a walk in the park.

I hope that sheds some light into whats going on with your setup, maybe you can apply it with your setup and work it out.

Wigs??? I don't wear a wig! Got too much hair already!!

Andria

 

[Zphinx]

Wigs??? I don't wear a wig! Got too much hair already!!

Andria

maybe you should try anyways..... get a wig and then do your wick.... maybe it was the wig all the way your issue? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Even with the typo I think everybody got the point right

 

[stylemaster2001]

Well, I read the whole thread and didn't see this mentioned...I'm rebuilding my protank coils with 30 gauge, 8 wraps around a 1.5mm allen wrench. For my big hands, having that 90degree bend gives me something tight to hold onto. After wrapping, torch the coils, squeeze em, put it back on the allen wrench and it fits perfectly into the slot. Set the coil, check it (8 wraps gives me @ 1.8 consistently) even dry fire it to check the coil glow....when correct, use cotton ball (yes, from CVS) small piece thru the coil and then have been experimenting with top flavor wicks...but for me, getting the cotton right in the coil is turning out to be the most important phase...Every time I try adding "any" wick on top, the draw is terrible (cant get any bubbles dry-drawing it) and get a burnt taste. Tried lessening and lessening the flavor wick til finally just left it off and voila', got it right. It draws the juice, doesn't leak, and hits like a tank (with a twist, turned up a bit more than minimum) Finally I'm happy and can "mass produce" all my used heads!!!!

 

[picowatt]

Well, I read the whole thread and didn't see this mentioned...I'm rebuilding my protank coils with 30 gauge, 8 wraps around a 1.5mm allen wrench. For my big hands, having that 90degree bend gives me something tight to hold onto. After wrapping, torch the coils, squeeze em, put it back on the allen wrench and it fits perfectly into the slot. Set the coil, check it (8 wraps gives me @ 1.8 consistently) even dry fire it to check the coil glow....when correct, use cotton ball (yes, from CVS) small piece thru the coil and then have been experimenting with top flavor wicks...but for me, getting the cotton right in the coil is turning out to be the most important phase...Every time I try adding "any" wick on top, the draw is terrible (cant get any bubbles dry-drawing it) and get a burnt taste. Tried lessening and lessening the flavor wick til finally just left it off and voila', got it right. It draws the juice, doesn't leak, and hits like a tank (with a twist, turned up a bit more than minimum) Finally I'm happy and can "mass produce" all my used heads!!!!

Glad to hear about your success with cotton. Interesting that you had the same problem with flavor wicks as I am having.
I really haven't tried adding cotton to a coil yet but my Kanthal wire is supposed to be here Saturday and I'll start working at it.

Curious, a lot folks say - don't remove the flavor wicks - they are very important to keep hot e-liquid droplets from going up the air tube into your mouth. Also, they say the flavor wicks stop leaking and gurgling etc... . Have you had the any problems with e-liquid making its way up the air tube?

I guess they are talking about the "spitting" and popping the tanks do when you get the coil temp up and hot e-liquid comes off the coil and into the air stream- and so on.
I have this problem even with flavor wicks and certain e-liquids.

 

[AndriaD]

maybe you should try anyways..... get a wig and then do your wick.... maybe it was the wig all the way your issue? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Even with the typo I think everybody got the point right

Sure! But for an amusing typo, I thought it was right up there with the auto-spelled "capers", "caping" because auto-spell doesn't grok "vapers" or "vaping."

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Glad to hear about your success with cotton. Interesting that you had the same problem with flavor wicks as I am having.
I really haven't tried adding cotton to a coil yet but my Kanthal wire is supposed to be here Saturday and I'll start working at it.

Curious, a lot folks say - don't remove the flavor wicks - they are very important to keep hot e-liquid droplets from going up the air tube into your mouth. Also, they say the flavor wicks stop leaking and gurgling etc... . Have you had the any problems with e-liquid making its way up the air tube?

I guess they are talking about the "spitting" and popping the tanks do when you get the coil temp up and hot e-liquid comes off the coil and into the air stream- and so on.
I have this problem even with flavor wicks and certain e-liquids.

I dunno about it preventing it from getting into the center tube, I've had a couple of big pops that sent some hot e-juice to the back of my tongue (it stings! tastes nasty too). This sigelei seems to make a lot more vapor, which means more condensate inside the driptip, which means I need to swab out the drip tip and center tube more frequently with a pipe cleaner, to keep it from gurgling. I think the real reason for flavor wicks is to stop leaks, if you're using a thin juice. Mine is quite thin, 85% PG, so, up till now, I've really needed a flavor wick.

However, I did finally get, and use, that hollow braided ekowool, and that stuff is great. I figured out the question about the hollow space inside it -- the 2mm hollow ekowool appears quite large when you first look at it, it looks more like 3mm -- but it squishes down extremely well, so it's just as easy to thread as the regular silica, and it fits in a tiny 5/64 wrapped coil -- but it really does hold more juice, because of that space, and its ability to squish down like a sponge -- it's very spongy!

When I look at a regular-silica 2mm wick in a coil that's been used, it doesn't fill the space at all, which is probably why they leak so badly. But when you look at the wick in the coil (that's been used) when you have the hollow 2mm ekowool, it really fills that space!

When I was using the regular silica, I used 2mm in the coil, and 2mm as flavor wick -- 4mm total. with this hollow ekowool, I've got the 2mm hollow in the coil, and for the flavor wick, I found that even a 1.5mm strand of regular silica is too much, got some dry hits, so I had to use about half a strand of the regular 1.5mm silica, and that worked great! I'm still using that particular coil right now, and it hits really well, doesn't leak, and doesn't give me dry hits! And the total wicking is only about 2.75mm.

I did one coil last night, a protank "universal" coil, that when I got the wick into the coil and trimmed on the ends, it appeared to totally fill the slots in the head, and even moreso when I got the chimney and silicone grommet reattached, so I didn't use a flavor wick at all for that one, and it seems to work just fine too. There may be a *tiny* bit of leaking, I've noticed just a very slight and sporadic gurgle, so it might need that half-strand of 1.5mm, but so far it's working out -- and no dry hits! GOD that's awesome! So I HIGHLY recommend that hollow braided genuine ekowool, if you want to use silica rather than cotton. LightningVapes has it for an excellent price, $3.75/2 ft.

I'm about to order a Kayfun, which will mean a coil larger in diameter, so I might get some "real" cotton (as opposed to cotton yarn) and give it a whirl, just to see for myself, if I can still taste the cotton, if it increases the burnt taste, etc. So far I'm loving the silica/ekowool, but so far I've only done these tiny BCC coils, so who knows.

Andria

 

[stylemaster2001]

Glad to hear about your success with cotton. Interesting that you had the same problem with flavor wicks as I am having.
I really haven't tried adding cotton to a coil yet but my Kanthal wire is supposed to be here Saturday and I'll start working at it.

Curious, a lot folks say - don't remove the flavor wicks - they are very important to keep hot e-liquid droplets from going up the air tube into your mouth. Also, they say the flavor wicks stop leaking and gurgling etc... . Have you had the any problems with e-liquid making its way up the air tube?

I guess they are talking about the "spitting" and popping the tanks do when you get the coil temp up and hot e-liquid comes off the coil and into the air stream- and so on.
I have this problem even with flavor wicks and certain e-liquids.

So far, no, not spitting at all...(got to say I expected it though). It does "crackle" but not "popping" and spitting!! I also had a tiny wick under the coil to prevent any leaking. I think all that cotton was just too much. I think if you get the right amount in the coil it prevents both (spitting and leaking), the trick is finding the right amount. (I am still learning, believe me)

 

[epicdoom]

Jeez I cant believe everyone has left this post alone. Where's the Humor. I fully expected to see its not the size of your wick that counts its how you run it that counts. Come on folks I'm old tired and in need of some humor. OK that said There is some really good information here. Taking it all in to try. I usually use cotton for most of my builds and most often I'm stingy with it I use enough for the coil and wicking action but try to keep excess to a min. I saw a dripper a few days ago at a local shop. It looked like the guy used an entire cotton ball in that thing. I could just barely see the coils he had both in a stovepipe position pointing straight up and cotton wrapped through the posts slots and around everything. was chucking some vapor out of those coil centers.

 

[xandrewx]

Cotton and 5/6 wrap on a drill bit.. best way to go

 

[AndriaD]

Jeez I cant believe everyone has left this post alone. Where's the Humor. I fully expected to see its not the size of your wick that counts its how you run it that counts. Come on folks I'm old tired and in need of some humor. OK that said There is some really good information here. Taking it all in to try. I usually use cotton for most of my builds and most often I'm stingy with it I use enough for the coil and wicking action but try to keep excess to a min. I saw a dripper a few days ago at a local shop. It looked like the guy used an entire cotton ball in that thing. I could just barely see the coils he had both in a stovepipe position pointing straight up and cotton wrapped through the posts slots and around everything. was chucking some vapor out of those coil centers.

Well a couple of us were/are trying to troubleshoot the leaking vs dry hits wicking problems. Picowatt and myself have both expressed our preference for silica over cotton, because it lasts so much longer and resists burning much better than cotton, especially, apparently, in the tiny enclosed space in the head of a T3S/Protank, but people regularly keep telling us that 'cotton is the only way to go', despite the fact that we just don't like it, in those coils, so I guess those people just aren't reading the whole thread.

And there was a smidgen of funny a few posts back, a wig caper.

I seem to have resolved my wicking issues with this 2mm hollow braided ekowool; no leaking, no dry hit/burnt taste, and it's easier to work with than regular silica, and may even remove or reduce the need for a flavor wick in these tiny heads. I have to give it both thumbs up.

Andria

 

[epicdoom]

Hehe I missed that post I guess. I use cotton for 2 reasons I like the flavor I get from it and its cheap. That said I have my authentic 3.1 KF wicked in cotton and the clone I just got today I wicked in silica both are using the navy style wicking. I cant tell the difference in taste using the same juice. I did the comparison because I got some wick with the clone unit And wanted to try silica out again. I can tell you one thing for sure silica is much easier to work with and get where you want it to be. I am also a fan of eko and I use it on my genny builds so I don't have to torch my mesh. I Have you tried slipping a silica wick into an eko Makes a nice dense wick for genny systems with a 4-5 wrap coil I let is sit in the bottom of the tank no need to tilt the unit it wicks like crazy. it can be difficult to thread the silica into the eko but a couple wraps of wire takes care of those strand issues when pulling it through.

 

[picowatt]

Hehe I missed that post I guess. I use cotton for 2 reasons I like the flavor I get from it and its cheap. That said I have my authentic 3.1 KF wicked in cotton and the clone I just got today I wicked in silica both are using the navy style wicking. I cant tell the difference in taste using the same juice. I did the comparison because I got some wick with the clone unit And wanted to try silica out again. I can tell you one thing for sure silica is much easier to work with and get where you want it to be. I am also a fan of eko and I use it on my genny builds so I don't have to torch my mesh. I Have you tried slipping a silica wick into an eko Makes a nice dense wick for genny systems with a 4-5 wrap coil I let is sit in the bottom of the tank no need to tilt the unit it wicks like crazy. it can be difficult to thread the silica into the eko but a couple wraps of wire takes care of those strand issues when pulling it through.

Yeah, there's all kinds of humor that could come out of this thread but I'm afraid I would get banned for inappropriate whatever.
So, I took out my 2 little cotton yarn flavor wicks from my T3S and found a few really small black spots - burn spots. My thinking is that the "fur" or fibers that are sticking out from the flavor wick are getting burned but the rest of the flavor wick is not - looks fine. How this is happening I don't know since the cotton yarn flavor wicks sit on top of 2 - 1mm silica flavor wick- don't see how the "fur" is getting singed.
Apparently there is something about mods that is different - perhaps airflow volume, wicking speed and volume - capillary action - different in more advanced systems like the KF3.1 and similar atomizers.
As Andria said -- the T3S has a very small area in which the wick is confined.
However, there are others who have small tanks and seem to have no issues with burning.

May have to do with the speed a given e-liquid is wicked into cotton - I'm not sure - though a higher viscosity liquid will wick slower.
So, I think it is obvious that more mods or RDA people have luck with cotton than what I've seen for folks with plain ole tanks like the
Kangers.

EDIT: Also, when I say burn - it is sporadic - periodic - not continuous. I have a tank now that was periodically burning and not it has completely stopped. No burnt cotton taste - for now.

 

[picowatt]

Well a couple of us were/are trying to troubleshoot the leaking vs dry hits wicking problems. Picowatt and myself have both expressed our preference for silica over cotton, because it lasts so much longer and resists burning much better than cotton, especially, apparently, in the tiny enclosed space in the head of a T3S/Protank, but people regularly keep telling us that 'cotton is the only way to go', despite the fact that we just don't like it, in those coils, so I guess those people just aren't reading the whole thread.

And there was a smidgen of funny a few posts back, a wig caper.

I seem to have resolved my wicking issues with this 2mm hollow braided ekowool; no leaking, no dry hit/burnt taste, and it's easier to work with than regular silica, and may even remove or reduce the need for a flavor wick in these tiny heads. I have to give it both thumbs up.

Andria

Andria I think the small space idea could have a lot to do with it. Also as I wrote in previous post, these mods or RDA's have a much higher air volume flow and may have better fluid delivery creating better wicking.
I mean look at the air holes on some of these RDA or mods - they are huge compared to the T3S.
Also, look at the e-liquid reservoir and how the liquid is delivered / available to wick.
Looks like a lot of things tend to make the Mods RDAs work better with cotton and keep the temp down such the cotton doesn't burn so easily.

But, I was at my fav local BM and was watching a friend take a mega-hit on his RDA/mod and suffer a serious cotton burn. It was obviously painful - but funny to everyone watching.... he was red faced - tearing eyes coughing etc ... .

So, it can happen to a mod but if you're not over doing it or careless it is way less likely to burn.
That's my take so far - still learning.

EDIT:Also, when I say burn - it is sporadic - periodic - not continuous. I have a tank now that was periodically burning and not it has completely stopped. No burnt cotton taste - for now.

EDIT: I have also noticed that in the T3S BCC where the air tube presses into the coil base - the part you take off the coil to see the wicks and coils - there is a gap at 4 places around the "Y" shaped slot where the air pipe presses in. It looks small but for me it looks like a constant leakage point even though the little gasket that sits on top of the coil covers most of it. Leakage is a big issue for me with these tanks.

 

[picowatt]

Cotton and 5/6 wrap on a drill bit.. best way to go

Could I ask what tank or system you use cotton in?

 

[picowatt]

So far, no, not spitting at all...(got to say I expected it though). It does "crackle" but not "popping" and spitting!! I also had a tiny wick under the coil to prevent any leaking. I think all that cotton was just too much. I think if you get the right amount in the coil it prevents both (spitting and leaking), the trick is finding the right amount. (I am still learning, believe me)

Well , you are either much smarter than me or lead a charmed life. Seriously though, I can't even get a a cotton flavor wick not to burn or singe sitting on top of a silica flavor wick. I know you said it takes a lot of trial and error, but from where I stand it looks like rocket science if I can't get a flavor wick not to burn.
Also, when I say burn - it is sporadic - periodic - not continuous. I have a tank now that was periodically burning and not it has completely stopped. No burnt cotton taste - for now.

 

[3mg Meniere]

I use her method. Don't even need flavor wicks, the 3mm fills it up. No need to thread wick through the coil, either. Works nearly every time. I can do ten in 45 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttsi6N2f9FI&feature=youtu.be