Will 100% VG mute my flavors?

[GMayberry]

I am using a 100% VG base. The only PG comes from some PG based flavors that I use.

The only flavors I have issues with are the fruitier flavors. I can't get that "pop" that purchased juices have. I have recently tried adding a drop or two of liquid Stevia to them. (I have a few flavors split into two bottles, one with, and one without Stevia for comparison when they are done steeping) Even now though, they simply don't smell as sweet as purchased juices do.

Could the issue be the VG percentage? I have heard that dilluting with distilled water will bring flavors out more. I don't want to use much PG at all because it tends to irritate my throat.

Any and all help is appreciated!!!

 

[bcollier9253]

Not if you increase your total flavor percentage.

I know I've said it before but if you make up a VG solution consisting of 85%VG,6.5%Saline, 6.5 Distilled Water and 2% PGA (pure Grain Alcohol) and use that as you would use VG (the amount of VG your plugging into the calculator) I think you'll see a differance. YMMV.

There is a few of us doing this and it does help.

Credit goes to we2rCool on that!

 

[GMayberry]

For the PGA are you saying I need to uncap a mason jar from the garage?

As for the saline, is there anything I can buy locally? To me, saline is basically contact solution. Am I thinking wrong on that?

 

[bcollier9253]

For the PGA are you saying I need to uncap a mason jar from the garage? :



As for the saline, is there anything I can buy locally? To me, saline is basically contact solution. Am I thinking wrong on that?

I use Everclear 190 Proof
No contact solution, it has other ingredients in it. Just straight Saline .09%

Here I found this by we2

Quote Originally Posted by JackH View Post
Hey We2, What saline solution do you use? Thanks.
Generically, you're looking .9% sterile saline solution - most typically sold for irrigating wounds (not the kind for injection). It's also used for lung/bronchial nebulizer treatements ('way back when' the medicine & the saline solution were separate and mixed at home; now they're usually premixed). It's also used for hydration & rinsing of sinuses, eyewashing, etc.

One does not need a prescription for it (it's just USP sodium chloride/salt mixed with distilled water!), but it's not uncommon for folks trying to purchase it 'in person' to be told that a prescription is "required". :::eyeroll::: It's somehow 'regulated' by the feds, so in some cases the seller has to do a bunch of paperwork or something, so they just tell folks it's "prescription only"...but it's freely available online from many sellers.

Here's an Amazon link/search: Amazon.com: saline solution .9%

I've noticed some folks are using this: http://www.amazon.com/Ubimed-Cleanoz...ywords=cleanoz

We get ours from a local mom & pop pharmacy ($4 per liter ). You don't want anything with antimicrobial/other preservatives or 'additives'.

It seriously helps with hydrating your mouth/sinsuses (even our eyes are less dry), and it helps flavors 'pop' (we consider it essential for bakery & chocolate mixes and many fruits - but we use it in all our mixes).

 

[dannyv45]

You shouldn't need to add more flavor. VG is a thicker liquid and it takes more time for flavor to meld. So it's a matter of steeping and not how much flavor you add. VG mixes take more time to steep then PG mixes. Warming the VG will help. If your flavors are not popping after you steep then .5% EM may help.

 

[GMayberry]

I am in Virginia. Everclear can't be sold here. The mason jars are easy to come by. I am going to try a batch tonight that way. Fingers crossed that Wally World or CVS has some saline...

 

[GMayberry]

You shouldn't need to add more flavor. VG is a thicker liquid and it takes more time for flavor to meld. So it's a matter of steeping and not how much flavor you add. VG mixes take more time to steep then PG mixes. Warming the VG will help. If your flavors are not popping after you steep then .5% EM may help.

I do a hot water bath right after mixing for about 30 minutes, then again the 2nd night. As for the EM, I have noticed that tends to make them more "flat." I have been posting about the fruit flavors alot recently, and I'm sure everyone is sick of seeing my posts. but I am LOST on the fruits! lol

 

[dannyv45]

I do a hot water bath right after mixing for about 30 minutes, then again the 2nd night. As for the EM, I have noticed that tends to make them more "flat." I have been posting about the fruit flavors alot recently, and I'm sure everyone is sick of seeing my posts. but I am LOST on the fruits! lol

EM when used in large amounts will make a mix flat or mute flavor. When used in small amounts (.5% or less) It will add body and thickness and enhance sweetness in an already sweet mix. Most fruit mixes don't need a lot of steeping time but heat steeping and leting it sit for 2 days is also key.

 

[glasseye]

I am in Virginia. Everclear can't be sold here. The mason jars are easy to come by. I am going to try a batch tonight that way. Fingers crossed that Wally World or CVS has some saline...

I found some at Rite-Aid by the bandages and rolls of sterile cotton. Store brand labeled Saline Wound Wash. Wally World said they didn't have it and looked at me like I was a freak of nature.

 

[buffaloguy]

I dont advocate using any sweetener be that EM, stevia, sucralose on fruit flavors. EM can round out a flavors sharp notes however it wont add sweetness (not in a high vg mix, pg yes). Sweeteners and lemon juice will kill a fruit flavor two to three days after mixing the flavor will go flat.

Im not sure what flavoring you are using but saying so might help. I have better results in VG with concentrated alcohol based flavorings from VapingZone for fruits. My standard recipe for VZ fruits is 80%VG/4% flavoring/16% dw, 4 hour steep in crockpot, then vape. All mine work out great.

VG does not mute flavor to any noticeable extent. After working with it for over two years I can tell you that usually .5% to at most 1% extra flavoring is needed for a high vg mix vs. a high pg mix. Imo, that difference is negligable and easily accounted for if you are coming from a high pg recipe.

DW will help disperse flavor better. After a heat steep fruit flavors should be vapable immediately. Most of mine are. If only I could find a cherry flavor that didnt taste like a cough drop.... sigh... thats my one nemesis.

 

[bcollier9253]

You shouldn't need to add more flavor. VG is a thicker liquid and it takes more time for flavor to meld. So it's a matter of steeping and not how much flavor you add. VG mixes take more time to steep then PG mixes. Warming the VG will help. If your flavors are not popping after you steep then .5% EM may help.

I stand corrected. Thanks Danny. I dont do a heavy VG mix so what do I know..Lol!, 50/50 here. I was thinkin I read somewhere that a slightly higher flavoring% was needed in a heavy VG mix. Please accept my apologies GM

 

[GMayberry]

I dont advocate using any sweetener be that EM, stevia, sucralose on fruit flavors. EM can round out a flavors sharp notes however it wont add sweetness (not in a high vg mix, pg yes). Sweeteners and lemon juice will kill a fruit flavor two to three days after mixing the flavor will go flat.

Im not sure what flavoring you are using but saying so might help. I have better results in VG with concentrated alcohol based flavorings from VapingZone for fruits. My standard recipe for VZ fruits is 80%VG/4% flavoring/16% dw, 4 hour steep in crockpot, then vape. All mine work out great.

VG does not mute flavor to any noticeable extent. After working with it for over two years I can tell you that usually .5% to at most 1% extra flavoring is needed for a high vg mix vs. a high pg mix. Imo, that difference is negligable and easily accounted for if you are coming from a high pg recipe.

DW will help disperse flavor better. After a heat steep fruit flavors should be vapable immediately. Most of mine are. If only I could find a cherry flavor that didnt taste like a cough drop.... sigh... thats my one nemesis.

Flavors are from Wizard Labs. Mostly LorAnns and TFA

 

[dannyv45]

I stand corrected. Thanks Danny. I dont do a heavy VG mix so what do I know..Lol!, 50/50 here. I was thinkin I read somewhere that a slightly higher flavoring% was needed in a heavy VG mix. Please accept my apologies GM

No apology nessessary. It has been a misnomer for a long time that in my early days of mixing I subscribed to myself. It's only with lots of testing and side by side comparing did I reach my now conclusion that more time is needed for flavoring to disburse through thicker liquid and not adding more flavoring.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

I've mixed anywhere from 80/20 to 15/85 (PG/VG) and I wouldn't say high VG mutes the flavor. I would however say it may ever so slightly change it. What I mean by that is I think high VG mixes come out with a slightly sweeter taste (to me VG has a slightly sweet taste). So if you were mixing a tart/bitter flavor, you might need a touch more to get the same taste as you would mixing the tart/bitter flavor in a high PG mix. Just my opinion and tastes vary.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[RonJS]

I am in Virginia. Everclear can't be sold here. The mason jars are easy to come by. I am going to try a batch tonight that way.

Vodka is basically PGA diluted to 80 proof. (Both are 100% grain neutral spirits)

They sell vodka in Virginia?


Ron

 

[Storm100]

A lot of helpful info in this thread. Thanks for posting.

 

[buffaloguy]

This is a very astute observation Wingsfan... and one of those nuances that gets lost in alot of discussions. Spot on!

As far as loranns goes... im not a fan of any pf their flavors. I actually have zero left and tried them all in the past. TFA is good but its hit and miss. Juicy peach is great at 10%-12% for example but apricot is blah at any percentage. Im not a total fan of either company's fruit flavors as Ive found the percentages needed much much higher than other concentrates.

A good rule of thumb in my opinion with tfa is to start around 8% up to around 12-14%. After that if the flavor still isnt there for you then my suggestion is to try the VZ alc concentrates, or hangsen essence line. I havent tried inawera yet but I hear good things about theirs as well.

 

[Dime04]

@buffaloguy. You have any experience with One on One flavors? They're mainly PG based. I have a 80vg/15%DW/5% Saline mix. Testing out flavors but can't seem to get the sweetness in any of the ones I've tested. Tried their Sweetart, Coconut, and Vanilla custard by themselves. Haven't given them a warm bath yet so maybe that's what I'm missing....but some have been steeping for weeks and still no sweetness. I have mixes with 5%, 8%, 10%, 15%, and stopped at 20% cause I figured it shouldn't be that high so I'm doing something wrong. Any help is much appreciated.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[GMayberry]

Generically, you're looking .9% sterile saline solution - most typically sold for irrigating wounds (not the kind for injection). It's also used for lung/bronchial nebulizer treatements ('way back when' the medicine & the saline solution were separate and mixed at home; now they're usually premixed). It's also used for hydration & rinsing of sinuses, eyewashing, etc.

One does not need a prescription for it (it's just USP sodium chloride/salt mixed with distilled water!), but it's not uncommon for folks trying to purchase it 'in person' to be told that a prescription is "required".

It says "not for injection, but a coworker's mom is a nurse, and originally when I needed some syringes to use for mixing, she brought me a bag full of syringes that were full. They say "0.9% sodium chloride injection, usp. sterile solution. single use. normal saline." This seems to be identical, except for the "for injection" part. What is the difference, why can't I use that?

 

[dannyv45]

It says "not for injection, but a coworker's mom is a nurse, and originally when I needed some syringes to use for mixing, she brought me a bag full of syringes that were full. They say "0.9% sodium chloride injection, usp. sterile solution. single use. normal saline." This seems to be identical, except for the "for injection" part. What is the difference, why can't I use that?

I believe It's the same thing. Likely used for wound irrigation.