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Will Parents Push Research?

Discussion in 'Canada Forum' started by Smile n' shine, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. Smile n' shine

    Smile n' shine Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 13, 2012
    Will people who are against or concerned about e-cigs benefit the cause further?

    "More parents have been coming forward with concerns that Health Canada is not doing enough to control the product. Health Canada has not issued any concerns or reports about e-cigarettes since 2009."

    It's logical parents would have concerns, just as they would with other habit forming substances which are legal and illegal. I'm curious, if this concern, will promote more interest in exploring the product on Canadian soil? I completely agree with age requirements needed for youngsters, just as it is for cigarettes and alcohol. But kids will be kids, and if they are in the mindset to try an e-cig, they will also try a cigarette or beer. Raising teens is a difficult task and parents will and should be concerned about any substances, but I am enlightened that parental concern may push research further than advocacy.

    The CBC article (<--link) is vague like so many out there. Writers are so quick to throw an 'idea' into the public eye, with little research, background information and follow-up. Keeping an eye on where this parental concern leads, will be interesting.

    "A warning published in June shows that the health and social services department is working to find out more about the product...."

    What do you think?
  2. Battlelance

    Battlelance Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    NB, Canada
    I doubt parents complaining will push any research. Rather, if a group complains enough, it will probably lead to legislative changes banning them completely (prohibition, bike helmets, lawn darts, etc.).

    I believe the only thing that will lead to any meaningful research will be big tobacco companies jumping in on the e-cig bandwagon, having solid studies done on the juice, getting the government to tax the product, and have it available for sale. And this route isn't great for us either, because bigbacco isn't exactly known for having the most pure and physically safe product. The only other option is they get picked by big pharma and sold as smoking cessation products - which means they'll all be some proprietary 510 auto knockoff with some crappy minty type juice.

    Unfortunately, the biggest problem facing e-cigs at the moment is the fact that the only companies with enough money to pay for 3rd party studies (and independently verified) are the Chinese companies manufacturing the hardware. And IMO, they are manufacturing powerhouses, and probably don't care what governments do or don't do. As long as people buy it, they'll make it. If people stop buying it, they'll retool and manufacture something else.
  3. Smile n' shine

    Smile n' shine Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 13, 2012
    Great summary Battlelance!
    I'm sorry, I suppose the topic of research & ecigs is redundant here.
    Same brick wall with only so many angles to toggle.

    On a lighter note, if anyone at all is familiar with Bet Lynch (Coronation Street) and Julian Clary, it was a blast
    to see them on Celebrity Big Brother UK puffing on an e-cig while in the house. IF only our Canadian programs would be so
    bold! ;)
  4. martinc

    martinc Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2011
    Man does these crappy programs works;at least a dozen people made jokes about e-cigs when in my presence at work since Monday.

    Poor souls.
  5. recidivus

    recidivus Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 20, 2012
    Haters gonna hate. I've gotten a few "that looks silly just smoke" comments from folks, but whatevs. They usually follow up with a solid cough while trying to laugh.
  6. XSlor

    XSlor Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2011
    BC, Canada
    I don't know about this... I think there are larger concerns at hand and the fact that kids can't purchase (or shouldn't be able to) vaping products... probably won't affect toooooo much the outcome of vaping products... besides, I think "kids" will probably pickup smoking before they pickup vaping...

    My cooworker was teasing me about the vaporizer and buying one... he tried it this morning and I just ordered him a kit lolz...
  7. slojas

    slojas Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 21, 2012
    One absolute surefire way to make something popular is to make kids think its bad for them.
    Now we have parents screaming the horrors of their kids puffing e-cigs,

    This is wonderful news, every kid choosing to try an e-cig instead of a cigarette is one less new smoker for the tobacco company's to kill,
    we know e-cigs are far less harmful and that pure nicotine(if used) is far less addictive then the coctail of MAOI inhibitors and nicotine found in cigarettes.

    When there is huge demand there is money to be made, and when there is money to be made capitalism will flourish and capitalism trumps law and politics almost every time.

    E-cigs are the future, nothing can stop them, in 20 years tobacco use will seem primitive and dirty.
  8. Battlelance

    Battlelance Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    NB, Canada
    That's still one more kid addicted to something, and a vendor that decided to sell their products to someone under the age of 19.

    Either way, we should be dissuading them, not encouraging them. The last thing we need are more people addicted to nicotine - which is the one thing almost all of us regret.
  9. XSlor

    XSlor Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2011
    BC, Canada
    You got to remember too though that most ecigs available to the "public" are nicotine free...
  10. RosaJ

    RosaJ Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    The Woodlands, TX, USA
    Totally agree with you Xslor, they can't regulate batteries because they would have to regulate flashlights, nor can they regulate food flavoring. The only thing they can regulate (or tax most likely) is the liquid containing nicotine.
  11. Battlelance

    Battlelance Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    NB, Canada
    I understand, but I was replying to Slojas' comment on nicotine. Also, IMO, corner stores selling nic-free ecigs shouldn't be selling them to minors either.

    I'm not a fan of government oversight, but one thing leads to another. Some people are addicted to the nicotine, some are addicted to the physical motions of smoking. Besides, (and I'm generalising, I know) kids these days are turning into mindless sheep, and parents are more than happy to let the internet and TV "teach" their kids about life. Oh, but when things go wrong, or they see something they don't like, they are more than happy to blame TV, Internet, video games, rap music, teletubbies, etc.

    (ps: I'm still pissed off about banning lawn darts. It was fun. Natural selection at its finest.)
  12. XSlor

    XSlor Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2011
    BC, Canada
    Well I agree with what you are saying... but I'm saying parents have more to worry about than ecigs... I don't think it will push studies for better or worse on the ecig subject... the fact there hasn't been a study done on this is ages I think eludes to the fact it's been put on the back-burner of priorities...

    The only time you see drastic changes is when something results in violence or someone getting severely injured... then they try to find a scapegoat to blame...

    I'm a parent of 2 and this concerns me 0... With newer generations I think things start to slide a little more and we understand things a little better. The older generation came from a technologically empty era...

    Our current city issues now are to ban pitbulls after a recent attack on a child locally...

    I'm sure someone got severely injured with lawn darts... I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol was a factor :D
  13. Tramd

    Tramd Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 15, 2012
    Just because they try it doesnt mean they'll become addicted to it and since they're not allowed to sell them with nicotine in canada they can be sold on the counter to anyone.

    Easy for me to say, i know, I've never been addicted to smoking. We're either going to see a mass acceptance of ecigs as a harm reduction device or the entire market being demonized for being widely available to kids and appealing to them via fruity flavours.
  14. Battlelance

    Battlelance Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    NB, Canada
    True, but you can say the same about your Tims double double. Just because they sell 'em without nicotine, doesn't mean we aren't ALL addicted to Tims. :)

    I think you hit the nail on the head there. If we don't keep kids from touch ecigs, they'll go the way of the cigarillo. After all, what adult would want a grape flavoured mini-cigar? pfft. :p
  15. Tramd

    Tramd Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 15, 2012
    Ahh gotta love that knee jerk "think of the children!!!" response to the cigarillo ban. How long did it take to get around that? 24hrs? Strip the filter, now its a cigar.

    Still flavoured
    still cigarette for factor
    still being sold

    And the kicker? Not a word has been spoken about them since. Yay for parent advocacy groups. Tools, the lot of 'em.
  16. RicZilla

    RicZilla Full Member

    May 9, 2012
    Ottawa, Canada
    Funny thing is that the kids can buy those low alcohol and non alcohol beer or even energy drinks and no one seems to care..
  17. BuzzKilla

    BuzzKilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 4, 2010
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    My gripe with the mentality of people today, is to band-aid fix everything.

    Before - Don't run with scissors. (does anyone even say this any more)
    Now - Make scissors safe for kids to run with, also make them so that you cant cut warm butter...

    Conclusion: Instead of fixing the problem, teaching kids to be responsible, we cover everything in bubble wrap, and pass laws that are more of a nuisance than anything else just so that we dont need to interact with kids. (like banning lawn darts :mad: )

    im afraid that e-cigs will fall to this kind of thinking if we(the e-cig enthusiasts) keep quiet and dont do anything about it.

    possible scenario:

    - e-cigs are free to sell with no nic and it stays that way.
    - it becomes a gateway tool to smoking analogs and gets a bad wrap.
    - parents cause an outcry of, "e-cigs got my 16-year-old addicted cigarettes, which later put him in a methadone clinic because he got addicted to illegal substances."
    - BOOM! e-cigs are illegal because no one actually blames the true cause and e-cigs are the newest scapegoat.


    - we push for it to be an accepted alternative to smoking, making it legal to sell WITH nic. and there fore becomes illegal to sell to minors.
    - it gains popularity as a true alternative to smoking
    - cigaretts are no longer sold, Big tobacco companies start pumping e-cig kits out of their factories to not go bankrupt.
    - modding e-cigs becomes nothing more than just an acceptable hobby.
    - we can all go to the local Baskin Robbins to pick up e-liquid in 20 years...

    Sorry for the rant. But anything related to how parents raises their kids, really gets my blood boiling.
  18. MisterMike

    MisterMike Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    I hear you. My 7-year-old daughter understands the dangers of smoking (That it will kill you, at least; not the particulars of how it kills you), and I've sit down with her and explained to her that PVs are only for people who used to smoke and want to get off cigarettes, and that if you don't smoke, there's no reason to start using one.

    But, I suppose then that if everyone did that, "Concerned Parents" would have to actually find something productive to do.
  19. Samyaza

    Samyaza Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2012
    London, ON
    I don't regret being addicted to nicotine, any more than I regret being addicted to coffee.

    I regret being addicted to cigarettes.

    Now that I have been vaping for a while, it's very obvious that it's now more psychological than physical.
  20. Projectguy

    Projectguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2012
    Oakville, ON

    its your second scenario that HAS OCCURRED vaping is here to stay and the process of market consolidation will begin soon.

    1. Lorillard acquired blu cig for $135 m in cash Q1 2012 Lorillard Buys Blu Ecigs; Profit Falls -

    2. NJoy has completed a $20 million "private placement"

    3. NJoy has begun the "beauty patent" process among other things which to me looks like a company looking to get ready to do an IPO or be bought out.

    4. Just look at the CV's of the top dogs Management Team | NJOY Partners these guys are not vapers they are entrepreneurs which means EXIT strategy which means sale a la blu cig or IPO.

    5. Bonnie Herzog is suggesting that e cigs will takeover analogues within 10 years

    6. Philip Morris and the like may not be saying much but I'll bet you a Zen Standard, and Orion V2 and a GGTS that these guys have already spent at least $50 - $100 million on research whixh is pocket change.
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