Wrapping Coils for Newbs

[Smallville]

Ok, so I hit my 90 days free of tar bars and decided to reward myself. Went to the local shop and picked up a Kayfun 3.1, Galileo, a small spool of Kathal ribbon wire, and some organic cotton.

I wrapped a couple coils last night and they seem to work ok, but nowhere near the vapor production I was expecting having seen others with a Kayfun and the amount of vapor they were able to produce. Now, I know that juice blend does play a factor (I'm using 80/20), but when I talked with a guy about his coils he said it was be cause he was sub-ohming.

Try as I might I can't wrap a coil under 1.2. Any tips? Also I have a Scar dripping atomizer, yet whenever I try to wrap two coils for it, I can't get snot for production out of it.

Thanks for the tips in advance!

 

[Glenn_K]

Greetings Smallville, welcome to the forum.

Have you spend any time with the available KF tutorials? I found the one on Vaporev very helpful just to make sure I had solid basic KF coil-building chops -- VapeRev EDU // Building a Kayfun - YouTube

It's definitely worth spending time on ECF's Assorted PV Topics/Rebuildable Atomizers subforum to get some tips. And there's some awesome stuff on YouTube, such as -- Chimney Micro Coil Build In A Kayfun Lite - YouTube

Because this thread is in the new members forum, I have to ask, are you knowledgeable about battery and sub-ohm safety?

-- Glenn

 

[Smallville]

I have watched a few vids (that's how I learned to make the coils I have made). But I do really appreciate the links, I will be checking each of them out.

To answer your question, yes and no. I know the dangers involved, and I am not trying to blow up my hand that's for sure. And I am welcome to any other pointers as well.

 

[Enoch777]

To answer your question, yes and no. I know the dangers involved, and I am not trying to blow up my hand that's for sure. And I am welcome to any other pointers as well.

Sub ohm is a tricky thing, hence the disposition towards advanced users only. What battery are you using? The thing about sub ohm is that even a .1 drop in resistance can cause the amps to surge. If your battery doesn't have the amperage output available it will go into thermal runaway. Venting, flames, possible explosion ensues.

So what batteries are you using, and what charger are you charging them on?

Also, the reason you probably can't wrap under 1.2 ohm is because ribbon wire has a higher resistance (usually) than your typical 28GA or 30GA annealed. You can get smaller size ribbon but it's something you'd have to look into dimensions and specifically order to achieve. Going sub ohm route, 28GA is probably the most used/recommended.

 

[Glenn_K]

Really good advice from Enoch.

Keep in mind that just because you have a mech mod and an rba, there's no law saying you have to do low resistance coils. Here's a vid from a guy demonstrating cloud chasing from an rba with a coil up around 2 Ohms (can remember the exact resistance figure) -- 2 ohm cloud. - YouTube

Smallville do you have a multi meter or some other device to measure coil resistance? This is an absolute must if you're building coils.

Congrats on quitting smoking btw, that's huge!

-- Glenn

 

[Smallville]

Ok, I will stop and get some other wire after work.

I am using IMR 18650 3.7V 2000mAh, looks like the brand name is EH??? I was told I am good to go with this battery.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I prefer .28 gauge micro coils in a kayfun. Wick with cotton. 1-1.5 ohm micro coils are fantastic in a kayfun. I've had very little luck using ribbon wire on anything but my Gennys. Stick with it...but you don't need to go sub ohm to get a kayfun to shine. I actually think they work best between 1 and 2 ohms. Lots of flavor and vapor. Good luck!

 

[Smallville]

Really good advice from Enoch.

Keep in mind that just because you have a mech mod and an rba, there's no law saying you have to do low resistance coils. Here's a vid from a guy demonstrating cloud chasing from an rba with a coil up around 2 Ohms (can remember the exact resistance figure) -- 2 ohm cloud. - YouTube

Smallville do you have a multi meter or some other device to measure coil resistance? This is an absolute must if you're building coils.

Congrats on quitting smoking btw, that's huge!

-- Glenn

Thanks for the congrats, I appreciate it. And thanks for the other vid link, I will check that out as well.

Yes I went ahead and covered my bases on the multimeter, grabbed one from radioshack yesterday and made sure that it reads subohms.

 

[Jazzi Mike]

Alright a few things, number one is that the Kayfun takes a few builds to get right. I don't think that it is the resistance that is the issue with yours. Sure, you can build a sub ohm coil that will give you more power, but it won't change the fact that you are not getting much vapor.

Experiment with coil placement. That can make all the difference with the kayfun. Also, make sure that the ends of the wick don't block the juice channels.

 

[Smallville]

Experiment with coil placement. That can make all the difference with the kayfun. Also, make sure that the ends of the wick don't block the juice channels.

I am on my second coil build for it so far. I am trying to find the "right" placement for the coil. So far, I have not had a problem with the wick/channels (watched for that as it was pointed out in a vid).

I'm not looking to set any world record clouds here, but I do want to see some bang for the buck I put out. Right now my PTII is producing pretty close to the same vape cloud as the Kayfun.

 

[Enoch777]

Ok, I will stop and get some other wire after work.

I am using IMR 18650 3.7V 2000mAh, looks like the brand name is EH??? I was told I am good to go with this battery.

This one?

These are rated at 16 amps. While not superb quality, the high'ish amp limit would allow you to wrap around .7Ω to .6Ω with considerable safety. They can handle .5Ω but if you build that low, the possibility of resistance dropping suddenly below the limit is a real possibility. Good to give yourself at least .1Ω or .2Ω leeway "just in case."

Keep in mind that just because you have a mech mod and an rba, there's no law saying you have to do low resistance coils.
-- Glenn

I completely agree! I wrap 1.3Ω Micro Coils with organic cotton wicking and with a fresh wick can get pretty huge clouds. The flavor is what I was really after, and it's fantastic. Sub ohm is certainly a quick way to achieve both of these, but micro coils are 100% safer. That being said, I am leaning towards getting a mech and building some higher end sub ohm micros, just to see what that would be like.

All I can say is, micro coils are phenomenal and many others agree. They're fairly easy to build once you get the hang of it and provide an almost identical vape experience as sub ohm, which is to say top-notch! Highly recommend you start here and get the feel of the rebuilding department and then consider dropping your ohms below 1.0Ω.

If you can wrap a micro coil and achieve your desired ohms based on experience (and of course a multimeter/APV/Ohm Checker) then you should start to feel confident about trying sub ohm. My opinion of course, you can certainly dive right in if you want.... just be safe.

I also highly recommend you use either a genuine Xtar or Nitecore Intellicharger. Chargers are another area of batteries you really want top-of-the-line for.

Vape well, vape often

 

[Smallville]

This one?

Almost, it's orange with a button top, but yes. And I don't have my charger with me, but Xtar sounds familiar, I'll give it a look when I get home.

I knew I was coming to right place with the questions. Want to see home much of a newb I am, by micro coils you just mean tiny coils right? I have been wrapping mine on a picture hanging nail.

 

[tj99959]

Starting out with ribbon wire is a tough row to hoe. You can make great coils with ribbon wire, but man!!!! that sure isn't what I would have wanted to learn how to wrap a coil with!

Suggested only from my personal experience, I found 30ga wire the easiest to work with while I was learning how to wrap coils.

Micro coil is a rather generic term, and there are not many that wrap a micro exactly the same way. What I consider a micro might not even be in the ball park for someone else. I normally wrap my micros around a single strand of 0.8mm silica, while I've seen others wrap theirs around a strand of 32ga wire. The newest kid on the block is the diamond coil, which is 4 coils in series .. not parallel.

 

[Enoch777]

Almost, it's orange with a button top, but yes. And I don't have my charger with me, but Xtar sounds familiar, I'll give it a look when I get home.

I knew I was coming to right place with the questions. Want to see home much of a newb I am, by micro coils you just mean tiny coils right? I have been wrapping mine on a picture hanging nail.

Button top EH 18650, 1600mah

Strange you said 2000mah and those are rated at 16 amps. The orange ones are 22 - 30 amps, but they are 1600 mah not 2000. I would put a positive identification on those batteries so you are absolutely certain. It's pointless to even try building a sub ohm coil if you don't know your amp limit. Might as well wade into shark infested waters.

Sorry, not trying to sound like a jerk, just stating obvious Once you know what EH 18650s you have and find your amp limit, you're ready to try shooting for whatever ohm they can handle, and whatever ohm you feel safe trying to achieve.

Micro coils, yes... tiny. Some rebuilders like to classify them as "Mini," "Micro," or "Nano" depending on the size. By size I mean diameter of the wrap. Another aspect that is distinctly micro coil is the placement of your wraps. Tight wraps, placed close together, as in touching. When finished they basically look like a little tube of metal.

It's all science really. To get good flavor, huge clouds, and good TH you need to follow a certain recipe. Coil type. Resistance. Wattage. Airflow. Wicking. To a lesser degree, base ratio. Add more of these spices to your vape and the quality rises quickly. The ways to achieve this are numerous and debatable.

That being said, there are certainly tried and true methods: Sub ohm, micro coils, and sometimes a combination of the two.

 

[Smallville]

Button top EH 18650, 1600mah
Strange you said 2000mah and those are rated at 16 amps. The orange ones are 22 - 30 amps, but they are 1600 mah not 2000.

Looking right at the battery right now, says 2000 mAh on it. And no, I don't think you're coming across as a jerk at all, quite the contrary I see it as extremely helpful. I dropped over $200 yesterday and I want to see some production out of it, and from what I have seen and what I spent I expect to get more cloud out of the Kayfun than my 134 and PTII. So any and all the help and tips are appreciated.

 

[Enoch777]

Heading out for an hour or so, I'll check back later and see if I can't point you in the right direction towards getting that production. Check out the Rebuildables Subforum!!!

 

[Glenn_K]

Alright a few things, number one is that the Kayfun takes a few builds to get right. I don't think that it is the resistance that is the issue with yours. Sure, you can build a sub ohm coil that will give you more power, but it won't change the fact that you are not getting much vapor.

Experiment with coil placement. That can make all the difference with the kayfun. Also, make sure that the ends of the wick don't block the juice channels.

What do you find to be best in terms of coil placement? I found it helpful when I finally cracked the KF manual (http://www.meshweaver.com/temp/vaping/SVOEMESTO_KAYFUN_v3.1ES_USER_MANUAL.pdf), and saw the following illustrations, which shows how the coil can go diagonally between the terminals:



What I find hard to tell is how high the coil should be above the air hole. What have you found best, Jazzi Mike?

-- Glenn

 

[Hill]

I wrapped a couple coils last night and they seem to work ok, but nowhere near the vapor production I was expecting having seen others with a Kayfun and the amount of vapor they were able to produce. Now, I know that juice blend does play a factor (I'm using 80/20), but when I talked with a guy about his coils he said it was be cause he was sub-ohming.

Thanks for the tips in advance!

I'll have to disagree with that statement. I don't sub-ohm because of the safety issues but i do rebuild my own RBAs and I can blow massive clouds all at around the 1.6 to 2.0 ohm range

 

[Enoch777]

Alrighty...

After some consideration I realized you might be using these AW IMR batteries. These are not "EH" brand, which notes some skepticism from me. Yours specifically say "EH" on them? Where did you buy them, your B&M? If they are the batteries I linked from RTD Vapor, those are rated at 10 amperes output. This means you would only want to build a .8Ω coil with those, .7Ω at the very lowest.

You might be better off getting something like MNKEs or Sony US18650VTC4s. Both are rated at 30 amperes and would allow you to wrap .4Ω to .5Ω coils... well within the safety limits.

Second, check out: Rebuildable Atomizer Systems
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html

Browsing both will give you a much better idea of what to do. Also, here's a Kayfun Lite+ Build that might prove very useful.
I recommend getting some 28GA or 30GA Kanthal and looking into micro coils. Get a 3/64" or 5/64" screwdriver or bit and try to replicate it. You will need around 14-17+ wraps to hit a good, safe, low resistance ohm around 1.3Ω to 1.8Ω at those diameters.

You won't need to invest in anything else aside from the wire and it will give you tremendous experience in wrapping coils once you manage to build your first good coil. My advice is to, again, place the wraps very close together (touching). That's really all there is to it. Check out the picture I posted above and use it as a guideline. You won't be disappointed

 

[shynsly]

Here is a link to Baditude's Blog on batteries.

Compare yours to this list.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/4848-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected.html

Good Luck!