your stement of faith needs revamping.

[Seabrook]

In this case, they're not going "against biblical instruction." In the New Testament, the apostles referred to themselves as fathers to their fellow believers, and many Christians have continued the apostolic practice of calling their elders and overseers (presbyteroi & episkopoi) fathers. You may not choose to practice it, but the practice does have apostolic and scriptural precedent.

I've never seen any scripture in the NT where the apostles were referred to as fathers. Now, the OT is different, even Elisha called up to Elijah "Father, Father" as God was ascending him to Himself. Even Joseph referred to his relationship with Pharoah as in a fatherly manner, but that was based on the type of relationship he had with him. If you can find any NT scripture where the apostles were called father in a religiously superior manner, could you post them for me? Please and thank you. No rush.

I think you misunderstood my post. Most Christians ask fellow believers to pray to God for them, and most of these Christians occasionally ask Jesus' mother (among many other believers) to pray to God for them. Asking other people to pray for you is a practice consistent with and not contrary to the teaching of the New Testament. I am not aware of any apostolic writing which teaches Christians never to ask for prayers from fellow believers.

I did understand your post about Christians asking for prayer for them. That's why I said it was a good post. I was talking about the previous post I quoted for you. In fact intercessory prayer is one of the most treasured characteristics of a Christian. Moses and Aaron were always praying for the Israelites so God wouldn't destroy them ... and also for the leprosy to leave Miriam. Daniel prayed 3 x a day for his people. Prayer for others should be within the foundation of a Christian's born-again character.

Perhaps you are being tripped up by the word "pray." Nowadays many people think of "prayer" only as a request one makes to God, but in older English usage it referred to any request made to anyone. A quick perusal of an older biblical translation, such as the King James Version, bears this out. In 2 Corinthians 5:20, for example, the KJV has Paul saying: "we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." Paul prays to the Corinthians, on Christ's behalf, that they will be reconciled to God; more recent translations render the same phrase "we beseech you," "we beg you," "we ask you," "we implore you," etc. All of these mean the same thing: Paul prays to the Corinthians = Paul asks the Corinthians. Similarly, Abram prays to Lot ("Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee"), Lot prays to the people of Sodom ("I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly"), Esau prays to Jacob ("Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage"), etc. To pray simply means to ask, to make a request: "I pray you, do pass the salt, for the soup is bland." If you ask a brother to pray to God for you, you are praying to your brother to pray to God for you.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you that the word "pray" has different meanings. What I was referring to is the post regarding praying to Jesus' mother Mary and what the poster meant by it - that's all.

Thank you Madd, you have some good input!

..................................

 

[madqatter]

I've never seen any scripture in the NT where the apostles were referred to as fathers.

I cited a couple of them before:

Other New Testament passages demonstrate that Jesus' apostles did not interpret [Matthew 23:9] in a very literalistic manner; they often called themselves "fathers" and fellow disciples "children." Paul, for example: "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." John, similarly: "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake."

Similarly, Stephen the deacon martyr even referred to the high priest and other Jewish religious leaders as "fathers" in his final speech: "Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham..." (Acts 7:2).

Now, the OT is different, even Elisha called up to Elijah "Father, Father" as God was ascending him to Himself.

Yes!

What I was referring to is the post regarding praying to Jesus' mother Mary and what the poster meant by it - that's all.

And my point was this:

Most Christians ask fellow believers to pray to God for them, and most of these Christians occasionally ask Jesus' mother (among many other believers) to pray to God for them. Asking other people to pray for you is a practice consistent with and not contrary to the teaching of the New Testament. I am not aware of any apostolic writing which teaches Christians never to ask for prayers from fellow believers.

Scripture does not forbid asking fellow believers to pray for you, regardless whether the fellow believer is your own mother or Jesus' mother.

 

[Seabrook]

Oh hey, Madd, I found some!

Paul ..… 1 Cor. 4:14–15;
Peter to Mark ….. 1 Pet. 5:13;
Paul to the church ….. 2 Cor. 12:14, Gal. 4:19;
John to the church … 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4;
John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" (1 John 2:13–14)

And so the Roman Catholics have followed in the manner of the apostles?

ETA: I dont know. I'm going to have to sink my teeth into this a little bit more after the first of the year.

 

[madqatter]

And so the Roman Catholics have followed in the manner of the apostles?

As far as I am aware, Christians do not always agree with one another about the best ways to follow the apostolic teaching, but they are all (whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox) trying to follow apostolic teaching.

 

[Saintscruiser]

In this case, they're not going "against biblical instruction." In the New Testament, the apostles referred to themselves as fathers to their fellow believers, and many Christians have continued the apostolic practice of calling their elders and overseers (presbyteroi & episkopoi) fathers. You may not choose to practice it, but the practice does have apostolic and scriptural precedent.


I think you misunderstood my post. Most Christians ask fellow believers to pray to God for them, and most of these Christians occasionally ask Jesus' mother (among many other believers) to pray to God for them. Asking other people to pray for you is a practice consistent with and not contrary to the teaching of the New Testament. I am not aware of any apostolic writing which teaches Christians never to ask for prayers from fellow believers.

Perhaps you are being tripped up by the word "pray." Nowadays many people think of "prayer" only as a request one makes to God, but in older English usage it referred to any request made to anyone. A quick perusal of an older biblical translation, such as the King James Version, bears this out. In 2 Corinthians 5:20, for example, the KJV has Paul saying: "we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." Paul prays to the Corinthians, on Christ's behalf, that they will be reconciled to God; more recent translations render the same phrase "we beseech you," "we beg you," "we ask you," "we implore you," etc. All of these mean the same thing: Paul prays to the Corinthians = Paul asks the Corinthians. Similarly, Abram prays to Lot ("Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee"), Lot prays to the people of Sodom ("I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly"), Esau prays to Jacob ("Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage"), etc. To pray simply means to ask, to make a request: "I pray you, do pass the salt, for the soup is bland." If you ask a brother to pray to God for you, you are praying to your brother to pray to God for you.

Mad, it took me a few minutes to find the Scripture:

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8-10 (in Context)

I am positive that Jesus is not talking about your daddy....dad....pop.....whatever you call your daddy. Now if you want to interrupt that verse in a different way, you have a choice to do so. I am not pushing, shoving, forcing you to believe what I believe. Go to the Bible yourself and take God's Word. I'm a nobody......but I know Almighty God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit....it's a personal relationship, and I love Them and worship Them. There are cults posing as Christians. They are not. Hare Krishna? Jim Jones? Mohammed? Teach yourself and your household directly from the Word of God, because you will be accountable to God if you don't. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 I have seen the Jehovah's Witness scripture, and their bible states: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was a god." Big difference there. They took Jesus' Diety away. They believe, and I kid thee not, that when Jesus died, He was resurrected as the Archangel Michael. Bottom line.

I do believe there are Catholics who are saved. My daddy was Jewish. He accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Saviour. Not all Jews are saved even though they are the chosen race. If it hadn't been for the Jews rejecting Jesus, us Gentiles wouldn't have had a snowball's chance. Not all Methodists are saved. Not all Episcopalians are saved. Not all Baptists are saved. Just ask me. I thought I was saved until I met Jesus on my Damascus Road. The only person I know for sure that is saved is me. I can only speak for myself. But God said for us to check the fruits of other's spirits and if they are producing God's fruit, that's as far as our judging goes. If there is no fruit.....well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Read Matthew 7:15-20. (Trust me in that ducks aren't in Scripture!) I read God's Word and believe it is the inerrant Word of God. God said it, I believe it, and that settles it! If I weren't a Christian, I pray to God someone would witness to me, because: John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Mad, you are welcome in this forum! We discuss here. I haven't seen or read anything in which screams....protestants only! I am a Christian first and denomination 2nd.

Matthew 21-23 says: 21) Not everyone who says to Me, "'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22) "many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name , and done many wonders in Your name?' 23) "And I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness!" To me, as a follower of Jesus, that is the scariest Scripture of all.

 

[madqatter]

Mad, it took me a few minutes to find the Scripture: Matthew 23:9

No need to look it up, I've already cited it a number of times!

I am positive that Jesus is not talking about your daddy....dad....pop.....whatever you call your daddy.

I don't think so either, personally, but I can understand how people might read it that way.

There are cults posing as Christians. They are not. Hare Krishna? Jim Jones? Mohammed?

Hare Krishnas & Muslims don't claim to be Christians, and even Jim Jones abandoned any pretense of Christianity, alternately calling himself an agnostic or an atheist.

I haven't seen or read anything in which screams....protestants only!

The forum's "statement of faith" this thread criticizes unnecessarily excludes non-Protestant Christians, such as Orthodox and Catholic Christians. That's the problem. If the forum is only for Protestants, it should say it's a Protestant forum. If it's a Christian forum, intended for all Christians, the statement of faith shouldn't exclude Christians who aren't Protestants.

 

[Seabrook]

As far as I am aware, Christians do not always agree with one another about the best ways to follow the apostolic teaching, but they are all (whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox) trying to follow apostolic teaching.

Yes, I agree, Mad. That was true from the most ancient times.

One thing I know for sure without a shadow of doubt though. We as Christians ... no matter what faith or belief we have, we had better be jolly sure we know and understand the 7 letters God wrote (through John) to the churches in the Revelation, b/c it is extremely clear what our fate is if we don't.

So many Christians (including me) claim that the books of Daniel and Revelation are the most important books in the Bible. But I think it would be beneficial to jump back to the OT and read and re-read the books of Isaiah, and Ezekiel until we fully understand them, b/c those revelations pertain to the days we are living in now!

Reminds me of when God gave revelations to Daniel and Daniel didn't understand. God more or less told Daniel not to worry about it but to seal the writing up ... that it wasn't for him at this time. Then when God gave John The Revelation on the island of Patmos, he told John NOT to seal it up ... that it was for now.

I am not judging others for their beliefs (condemn the sin, not the person) ... don't have the right or wisdom to anyway. But the way I understand it is that as soon as we each attain the age of accountability, we are each responsible for the destiny of our own souls. God gifted us with the freedom of choice. Even the angels were given that same choice, and one-third of them left Heaven (their original estate).

Sorry, I got long-winded, Mad ... I was on a roll.

 

[Seabrook]

Hare Krishnas & Muslims don't claim to be Christians, and even Jim Jones abandoned any pretense of Christianity, alternately calling himself an agnostic or an atheist.


The forum's "statement of faith" this thread criticizes unnecessarily excludes non-Protestant Christians, such as Orthodox and Catholic Christians. That's the problem. If the forum is only for Protestants, it should say it's a Protestant forum. If it's a Christian forum, intended for all Christians, the statement of faith shouldn't exclude Christians who aren't Protestants.

I have a story to share. I went to pay a bill about 3 months ago. The same lady sits at the desk all the time. We are friendly to each other and chat about personal things when the office isn't busy since we know some of the same people. Anyway, I was going to tell her what happened to me on the freeway the day before. So I said, "Lorena, you're a Christian, aren't you?" She said, "No, I'm not, I'm catholic." I didn't know catholics didn't claim Christianity ... but I know nothing about catholicism anyway. I guess I'm a dork on some things.

Thanks for explaining the Statement of Faith misunderstanding, although I still don't understand b/c I don't know the catholic belief. I went there and read it, and I thought the problem was that the OP said everyone would be judged. The problem with that is that we will not all be judged at the white throne of judgment. There will be two different judgments, and that maybe the poster who objected was objecting to the difference between the two not being pointed out.

I still don't understand.

 

[madqatter]

So I said, "Lorena, you're a Christian, aren't you?" She said, "No, I'm not, I'm catholic." I didn't know catholics didn't claim Christianity.

Lorena's answer was contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, so I don't know why she would say that if she is a Catholic. Who knows?

Thanks for explaining the Statement of Faith misunderstanding

I'm not speaking for the OP, simply voicing my own criticism of the SoF.

 

[Saintscruiser]

That's odd, Sea, that she said that. Odd indeed.

One of my ex-husbands was Catholic when we married. He said not to worry about the differences, that it didn't matter. Wasn't too long before I found out that it really did matter. What I had to go through would curl your hair. So, ex's family paid for a dispensation. What has stuck in my mind after 37 years have passed now, (this was before I got saved) was I said to the priest that Jesus had forgiven me. (I had head knowlege, not heart knowlege.) He told me that he was sure I was but the church had to be sure. That's when I knew that their church put the church first, not God. They even wanted to know the most personal of personal things that went on in my past marriage. I was completely humiliated and I really think.....well, you don't want to know what I think. The dispensation went through and we were remarried by a priest. He abused my son from my 1st marriage. The marriage was over a few years before I left. I put up with him until I couldn't. I even talked to a guy who was co-oping at the army base chapel for a summer. He was studing in Rome. I figured if anyone could answer all of my questions, he could. (I called him an almost priest.) I was even considering becoming catholic, but a strong force within me said NO. God talked to me a couple of times before I got saved 28 years ago. I am remarried.....we are both Christians and we are in for the long haul. It's been 26 years, and I give Jesus all the Praise, Honor and Glory, because we've had some extremely difficult times. "But I know Whom I have believeth and am persuaded that He is able, to keep that which I committed unto Him against that day."

 

[Saintscruiser]

One thing I know for sure without a shadow of doubt though. We as Christians ... no matter what faith or belief we have, we had better be jolly sure we know and understand the 7 letters God wrote (through John) to the churches in the Revelation, b/c it is extremely clear what our fate is if we don't. by Seabrook


Sea, you are so correct. We are in the era of the Laodecia church. From what I understand, each church covers an era and #7 is the one that is going on right now. Look around....read the letter to Laodecia. We match. Turn on your tv's. If it isn't a crime drama, it's sex or dramas dealing with the supernatural. People are drawn to these shows.....even me. Listen to the language on tv today. In 1939, people were shocked when Clark Gable said, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." Now people take the Lord's Name in vain without batting an eye. (Have you ever noticed that people use only the Christian God's name? Say Mohammed damn and see what happens. There's no buddha damn, no Ra damn, etc.) We get acclimated to just 'hearing it.' How about the evangelicals? I heard on the news that we stick to our religion and guns. In this household we do. Everyone is so PC about everything but Christians. Our government was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Can't have the 10 commandments out anywhere. Merry Christmas is now Happy Holidays. The birth of our Saviour has been replaced with a fat man in a red and white suit, delivering toys. The Christmas tree is a pagan practice. Do I have one? Yes. I love the lights. Switch the letters santa around and you have satan. The most important day in the history of mankind, the resurrection of Jesus from the grave has now become a stupid rabbit delivering eggs. The name easter is derived from the name of a goddess of fertility. Look it up. I can't remember her name but it started with Estris? Estros? The word estrogen is taken from that name. Laodecia? We are in it right now. It turns my stomach and saddens my soul.

People are starving to find answers, and we as God's ambassadors and children, have the key. Once they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are held accountable. That's why the Left Behind books have sold so many copies. satan does what he does best...brings disscent between denominations, and church members. You hear about churches splitting all the time. satan and his demons go to church faithfully. They go more than I am able. But just remember, only 1/3 of the angels followed lucifer. We still have 2/3's of God's realm to help us. You need to learn who your adversary is. Jesus showed us how to get satan away. He didn't argue about church, or doctrines, Jesus quoted Scripture. Why did this work? Because (not trying to quote Jack Nicholson) the power of God's word is more powerful. satan and his demons 'can't handle the truth!' The one I use when I can't remember any others is: "In the Name of Jesus, I rebuke you." It works.
I am sorry, I didn't mean to write a sermonette. 8-o

 

[Seabrook]

Turn on your tv's. If it isn't a crime drama, it's sex or dramas dealing with the supernatural. People are drawn to these shows.....even me. Listen to the language on tv today. In 1939, people were shocked when Clark Gable said, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

Yes I agree, Saint. I got so disgusted with modern TV programs that I haven’t turned mine on for about 6 years except to use the DVD player for my exercise DVDs. I don’t even have cable service, just internet is all now, and it will stay that way. And I have never thought ......, safe-sex products and feminine care products were appropriate to advertise on TV when there are so many other advertising mediums.

Merry Christmas is now Happy Holidays. The birth of our Saviour has been replaced with a fat man in a red and white suit, delivering toys. The Christmas tree is a pagan practice. Do I have one? Yes. I love the lights. Switch the letters santa around and you have satan.

I would rather say Season’s Greetings anyway since Christmas is NOT what it appears to be. It’s actually an extreme pagan holiday.

So, for Christ’s sake, keep Christ out of Christmas!

For example, in the NLT translation:

Jeremiah 10:2-4This is what the LORD says: “Do not act like the other nations, who try to read their future in the stars. Do not be afraid of their predictions, even though other nations are terrified by them. Their ways are futile and foolish. They cut down a tree, and a craftsman carves an idol. They decorate it with gold and silver and then fasten it securely with hammer and nails so it won’t fall over.

The fact that Christ’s actual birthday not being revealed was not an embarrassing oversight or accident. It was inspired by God to NOT be revealed. There is not mention in scripture about observing Christmas. It is not mentioned that the apostles observed it.

Jesus wasn’t even born in December when the maji arrived to worship him. We know (by scripture) that the angels announced the birth of Christ to the Bethlehem shepherds in the open fields who were tending their flocks by night.

This fact certainly implies that the birth of Jesus could NOT have been on the 25th of December. "The cold of the night in Palestine between December and February is very piercing, and it was not customary for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October. (Hislop, A., The Two Babylons, Loiseaux Brothers, Neptune, N.J. pg 91)

People are starving to find answers, and we as God's ambassadors and children, have the key. Once they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are held accountable. That's why the Left Behind books have sold so many copies.

I enjoyed the entire Left Behind series. However, it sure didn’t begin scriptually at all. The book read that the left behind people realized it was the rapture and repented and got saved. Hogwash! 2 Thessalonians 2.11-12 tells us that isn’t possible.

I recently blogged with an atheist about the end times. He told me if he saw people raptured, he would rethink his belief. Nope, not possible. It’s either before the rapture or not at all. There will be people saved during the tribulation (and martyred), but it will be those who have not heard of the salvation of Christ or those who hadn’t reached the age of accountability yet. People say, “Well, I’m just going to live it up, and when I see a bunch of people disappear, I’ll know it’s time to get serious about God." Nope, it’s not gonna work that way.

The one I use when I can't remember any others is: "In the Name of Jesus, I rebuke you." It works.

I've had to rebuke only once in my life. I followed Archangel Michael's method when he rebuked Satan over Moses' body. Satan is a divine being ... although fallen, he's still a divine being, until the Lord casts him into the lake of fire. At the present, he is prince and ruler of this earth. (John 14:30; 2 Corinth. 4:4; Luke 4:6)

Jude 1:9 ..... But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Saint, why don't you start a general/no-topic CHAT thread?

 

[madqatter]

Have you ever noticed that people use only the Christian God's name? Say Mohammed damn and see what happens. There's no buddha damn, no Ra damn, etc.

"God" is not "the Christian God's name," no one believes Muhammad and Buddha are gods, and there are not many people left in the world who practice ancient Egyptian religions.

Our government was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Here in the United States, this is not true. Our first vice president and second president, founding father John Adams, with the unanimous support of the United States Senate, signed a treaty explicitly stating that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." The United States does not have or support a state religion.

Merry Christmas is now Happy Holidays.

"Happy Holidays" has been a common greeting for a long time because most people celebrate more than one holiday this time of year. Christians in this part of the world, for example, are celebrating both Christmas and New Year's Day. Many Christians also celebrate feasts honoring Epiphany (Matthew 2:10-12), the Holy Family (Matthew 2:13-15), and the Innocents (Matthew 2:16-18), among others, this time of year. For this reason, "Happy Holidays" has been a popular greeting in the United States since at least the 1800s, and probably longer.

The name easter is derived from the name of a goddess of fertility.

St. Bede proposed this theory around 700 AD. It doesn't make too much difference, though, since most Christians around the world call the feast of the resurrection "Pesach" (Hebrew for Passover) or some derivative thereof (the New Testament Greek is Pascha; other derivatives include Pascua, Pasqua, Páscoa, Pâques, Pashka, Pask, Pasg, Påske, etc). St. Bede himself called the feast Pascha. Other Christians use words meaning "Great Day" or "Resurrection" for the feast of the resurrection.

If I'm not mistaken, English and German are among the very few languages that use a word referring to the dawn/east (Easter, Ostern) rather than a word referring to Passover or resurrection. (And when others do, as in Samoa, it's usually because they got the practice from English or German speakers.) If you were visiting Rwanda or Indonesia, you'd use the local word for Passover, in Vietnam you'd refer to the resurrection.

 

[madqatter]

Jesus wasn’t even born in December

Here's a great article about the origins of celebrating Jesus birth in December. The date was chosen because Jesus was crucified in the spring, around the time of the Passover, and many ancient Jews believed that prophets died on the same day they were either born or conceived. According to this reasoning, if Jesus died in the spring, he was probably conceived in the spring, which would mean, in turn, he was born in the winter.

In other words, December 25 was chosen as a celebration of Jesus' birth because ancient Christians believed Jesus was probably conceived around March 25. Interesting stuff.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Sea, tell me how to do a non-topic chat. Just start a 'chat' thread? I'm game! When Lady T lost her internet connection, as I posted in another post, she asked me if I wanted to be moderator. I said not no, but hades no!!! I was supposed to get the moderator's bells and whistles, but never received them. But that didn't stop me from trying to resurrect the board here, as I feel God has led me to do just that. I can see that there is a difference of opinion in some threads, and I don't have a problem with that as long as we are courteous. We can agree to disagree. I appreciate the sincere postings so much!! I believe we were all sent here to talk about Jesus. I don't take back anything I have posted and had to be sure in my heart what I was posting was truth. I really don't want to get bogged down in church doctrine, but want to continue to post from God's Holy Word...and it is. That is why I came up with the questions like I did. I thought it might give us all a chance to learn....I love learning new things! I was hoping that everyone else would post questions...even Scriptural questions. If I don't know the answer, then I'll dig until I do or just say that I don't know. I want this board filled with laughter, joy, worship,and Praise! Hallelujah!

If you notice, these threads are being read. People are starving for God's Word. People are so unhappy these days and that's because that place in their hearts can only be filled with God. They are searching. I truly ask God to make this a haven for those who are bewildered, heart broken, grieving. We have the answer for them. His Name is Jesus! I will not compromise God's Word. I just won't. I have a choice and I choose team Jesus. Jesus said to Nicademus, "You must be reborn in your spirit." If you have any ideas for me, by all means send me a message or post it like Sea did.

 

[Saintscruiser]

"God" is not "the Christian God's name," no one believes Muhammad and Buddha are gods, and there are not many people left in the world who practice ancient Egyptian religions.


So what is the Christian's God Name? He has many. I call Him Almighty God, or Holy Father. Jesus referred to Him as Father, Abba.....Old Testament has many. Jehovah, Jehovah Girey (sp). Do you know what allah means? That is one of the 360 gods that the muslims have. allah is the moon god. The buddists pray to a golden idol. They all believe that the religion they have is the true one. Interesting enough, though, is that they are all predicting end times. You'd be surprised how many 'religions' there are and they all blasphem the Christian God.


Here in the United States, this is not true. Our first vice president and second president, founding father John Adams, with the unanimous support of the United States Senate, signed a treaty explicitly stating that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." The United States does not have or support a state religion.

I did not say that the United States has or supports a state religion. Look at the laws of the land. The Bills of Rights gives each person freedom to worship ..... not one specific religion, but a religion of choice. The Constitution was mainly written by Christians....followers of Jesus. I didn't say they were all perfect, for no one is. I can remember having a prayer over the intercom at the beginning of each school day and we all said the Pledge of Allience. You won't find either one. Our coins and money said "In God We Trust."

"Happy Holidays" has been a common greeting for a long time because most people celebrate more than one holiday this time of year. Christians in this part of the world, for example, are celebrating both Christmas and New Year's Day. Many Christians also celebrate feasts honoring Epiphany (Matthew 2:10-12), the Holy Family (Matthew 2:13-15), and the Innocents (Matthew 2:16-18), among others, this time of year. For this reason, "Happy Holidays" has been a popular greeting in the United States since at least the 1800s, and probably longer.

I know that December 25th isn't Jesus' real birth date. But I do think that it's a day to celebrate His birth. The Magi took a very long time to get to Bethlahem. For Christians, I can only speak for myself, the birth of Jesus is a wonderous event. The birth was the beginning of the fulfillment of prophesy. If people wish to celebrate the feasts, jubilees, etc., by all means do it. I always wondered why we Christians didn't celebrate Passover.

satan and his fellow fallen angels are rebuked on a regular basis in this house. Why? Because satan cannot hurt God, so he hurts those that God loves. Look at Job. He was a righteous man, but enough was enough, according to his wife. She told him to curse God and die. My husband and I have first hand experience with demons. We have demonic entities that have come in our home. We call it Spiritual housekeeping.

 

[Seabrook]

Hi Saint!

If you want, just open a thread called whatever you want, just making sure the title clarifies that it is a "General Chat - any topic" thread.

I'm getting so busy right now that I won't be able to get on as much as I would like until after the first of the year. I am helping my daughter with her business because she is battling some serious health problems. If her doctor schedules her for surgery, I will need to take over her business until she recovers.

I'm also on a research hunt that's, so far, a dead end. I've been trying to find information on King Melchizedec who ruled Salem. So far, King M. does not have parents, genealogy or history ... he just was. Another mystery. Wikipedia has a hugely interesting discussion.

See, the only men allowed to be priests back then had to be of the tribe of Levi ... Levites. But Jesus was a priest and was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi. God placed Jesus under the order of King Melchizedec (the highest order) which made Jesus the High Priest.

LOL, I was sitting here reading Wikipedia on King M. and an orange fell off the table and scared the wits out of me ... brought me back to reality ... realizing I've got to get to bed since I have to get up early tomorrow.

Chat ya later, (((Saint))) and (((Mad))).

p.s. I'll make you a quick post below of a few interesting notes I found on Wikipedia WRT King Melchizedek.

 

[Seabrook]

Dead Sea Scrolls
11Q13
11Q13 (11QMelch) is a fragment (that can be dated to the end of the 2nd or start of the 1st century BC) of a text about Melchizedek found in Cave 11 at Qumran in the Israeli Dead Sea area and which comprises part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In this eschatological text, Melchizedek is seen as a divine being and Hebrew titles as Elohim are applied to him. According to this text Melchizedek will proclaim the "Day of Atonement" and he will atone for the people who are predestined to him. He also will judge the peoples.[67]

Second Book of Enoch
The Second Book of Enoch (also called "Slavonic Enoch") is apparently a Jewish sectarian work of the 1st century AD.[71] The last section of the work, the Exaltation of Melchizedek, tells how Melchizedek was born of a virgin, Sofonim (or Sopanima), the wife of Nir, a brother of Noah. The child came out from his mother after she had died and sat on the bed beside her corpse, already physically developed, clothed, speaking and blessing the Lord, and marked with the badge of priesthood. Forty days later, Melchizedek was taken by the archangel Gabriel (Michael in some manuscripts) to the Garden of Eden and was thus preserved from the Deluge without having to be in Noah's Ark.[72][73]

In Christianity
An image of Melchizedek painted onto the altar side near the Royal Doors at Libotin wooden church, Maramureş County, Romania
Main article: Melchizedek priesthood
In the New Testament, references to Melchizedek appear only in the Letter to the Hebrews (later 1st century AD), though these are extensive (Hebrews 5: 6, 10; 6: 20; 7: 1, 10, 11, 15, 17, 21). Jesus Christ is there identified as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek quoting from Ps. 110:4.[74] As such, Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all. Abraham's transfer of goods to Melchizedek is seen to imply that Melchizedek is superior to Abraham, in that Abraham is tithing to him. Thus, Melchizedek's (Jesus') priesthood is superior to the Aaronic priesthood (who are descended from Abraham), and the Temple in Jerusalem is now unnecessary.

Evangelical Christian beliefs
Traditional Evangelical Christian denominations, following Luther, teach that Melchizedek was a historical figure and an archetype of Christ.[75]

Tremper Longman notes that a popular understanding of the relationship between Melchizedek and Jesus is that Melchizedek is an Old Testament Christophany - in other words, that Melchizedek is Jesus.[76]

Others, noting Hebrews 7 which informs that Melchizedek was "without father, without mother, without genealogy" agree that Melchizedek could not be Jesus and instead identify him as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

 

[madqatter]

So what is the Christian's God Name?

Exodus 3:13-15

Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I am who I am (אֶהְ יֶה אֲֶר אֶהְ יֶה)." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I am (אֶהְ יֶה) has sent me to you.'" God also said to Moses, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'The Lord (אֶהְ יֶה), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my Name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations."

Do you know what allah means?

Yes! Allah is an Arabic contraction of "al ilāh" which literally means "the Deity" or "the God." It's an Arabic cognate of the Hebrew "Elohim" and Aramaic "Elahh."

As in "Go and gather the elders of Israel together and say to them, 'YHVH Elohim of your fathers, Elohim of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me,'" (Exodus 3:16). As in "Daniel blessed Elahh of heaven. Daniel answered and said: 'Blessed be the name of Elahh forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might,'" (Daniel 2:19-20).

Jews and Christians who speak Arabic say "Allah" for "Elohim," "Elahh," or "Theos" just as Jews and Christians who speak English say "God" for "Elohim," "Elahh," or "Theos."

In fact, Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians were using the word Allah for God before Islam ever existed. It's really just "Elahh" with a slightly different pronunciation ("ah-la" or "ah-law" rather than "ay-la" or "ay-law"). These days many English speakers say "Ask, and you will receive," but back in the 1500s it was "Axe, and ye shal receave," and some English speakers still pronounce the word "axe." Po-tay-toh, po-tah-to, as the song says.

Here's John 3:16 in Arabic. As you can see, the third word from the right is Allah, اللهُ.

The buddists pray to a golden idol.

I know that it may appear this way to western theists, but Buddhists believe that Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, was an enlightened man, not a god. In fact, one of the Buddhist sutras recounts a story in which Dona the brahman asked the Buddha whether he was a god and the Buddha explicitly said, "No, brahman, I am not a god." When further asked what he was, he replied "I'm awake."

The Constitution was mainly written by Christians

Many of the people who had a hand in writing the document were not Christians at all. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was a deist who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus or in miracles. This is one of many reasons founding fathers such as President Adams unanimously agreed to the proposition that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Our coins and money said "In God We Trust."

A vague statement to which any sort of theist might agree, certainly not a particularly Christian idea, and not adopted until the mid-1950s.

I always wondered why we Christians didn't celebrate Passover.

Every time Christians gather to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus, and especially on the first day of the week, they are celebrating the fulfillment of Passover: "Christ, our Passover, is sacrificed for us, therefore let us keep the feast"! That's why so many Christians around the world call the feast of the resurrection Passover (Pesach, Pascha).

 

[madqatter]

Some of the Hebrew words got out of order in the quote from Exodus 3. Sorry about that. The forum isn't really designed to support a mixture of Hebrew and English.