Clones VS The Real Deal...

[Traver]

Now if they go off and make exact replicas of my work and then have the bloody gall to put my logo, my name, forge my signature with a star *Clone on the sales page.

Untamedrose, that is pretty much the same way I see this issue. I was a craftsman goldsmith for thirty years. People bought my work because of the quality and because it was handmade by me. If someone copied my design I considered it a compliment and if anything it increased my sales.
If they stamped my name on it becomes forgery and that is a different thing. So I have nothing against clones but I do buy the originals because in general though not always I get better quality.
Most of the time with clones I don't know the quality of the battery, the switch or the electronics inside. That doesn't mean that some clones aren't as good or better than the original but that doesn't happen very often. When it does happen I feel it is up to the original maker to improve the the quality of their product.
For instance I bought a Provari when it first came out and I vape with it every day. I paid more for it than any other pv but it has turned out to be the best and in the long run the least expensive mod I own.

In conclusion I believe there is a difference between a forged product and a clone.

 

[Pinggolfer]

That's just it-- I wasn't trashing the original mod makers and I stand by my opinion (which we all are allowed to have).

Fact is, clones have been around for pretty much everything for longer than most of us have been alive and if there is going to be this much outrage then I feel the original mod makers, if they care so much about their product, need to have their stuff patented.

If they can't be too bothered to protect their own works of art, then who am I to shake my first in the air for their protection; especially when a large majority of these mod makers are posting their stuff on the internet for anyone to clone; not just FastTech!

Anything with a patent means nothing to China. Perfect example is Ping, Callaway, and Taylor Made all have patents or patent pending, however China makes knockoffs of their clubs, ships them illegally to the US and ends up being sold on Ebay or Craigslist. You need to remember we are dealing with a Communist country, which has no concerns over patents.

 

[Traver]

Many of the newer ones are though.

There's no real magic that goes into the production of the original devices, if China uses the same or similar enough materials and makes a 1:1 copy then it's going to perform pretty much the same.

Hell, the EHPro EA clone performs BETTER than the original.

That's a big if. How do you know they are using the same quality materials?

I often see posts by vapers who just received a product telling the world how great it is. Baloney after a six months or a year of use such an endorsement might have some credibility. A year later when a hundred other people agree I might start to believe it.

 

[ScandaLeX]

Read back a few to my previous post. If they didn't do this and started their own symbols and what-not, then these high priced mods may actually be in trouble....Seriously. On the surface it may seem uncool, but when you actually think about it, I think it's actually saving these high priced devices' .... and giving them a little leverage by saying "wahh wahh, they are stealing my ideas, how dare them, dont YOU want to be the guy that can say you have the REAL one? Yea that's what I thought, now open up that wallet and dish it out".

Like I said, the companies are taking advantage of the low supply. I have held the 'real' chi and a clone. It's DAMN hard finding any difference in quality, there is no possible way they are struggling to make as many 'real' chi's. They are just slowing down production to keep the prices sky high, guarantee it.

Ummm no. I'm vaping on a cloned Diablo as I type. I bought it because it was shiny and cheap. Should I drop it to the point of uselessness I am not going to cry about it. If this were an original and I dropped it, I'd be S.O.L.
If anything happens to my ProVari I can send it off to ProVape and get it back good as new.

 

[State O' Flux]

Clone or not, most important thing is that I am not somking anymore.

And that's the reason most of us came to this point... not to be elitist, metal tube collectors. Which, as it turns out, is just a entertaining side benefit.

 

[Steakjuice]

I understand that it sucks as a creator to have your work stolen, or as an owner to have your investment potentially devalued, but the way I see it, everyone is looking out for themselves regardless of personal stance and that's completely okay.

Therefore, if it looks the same as the original, functions identically, and can be readily purchased at a fraction of the cost, well, I'm going with the clone every time.

 

[Technonut]

I'm guilty of first purchasing a Rainbow Heaven Terminator, then Term C's.. I was a previous GG fan years back, and had a grudge against Imeo, sold all of my GG gear, but still liked the design well enough to purchase the clones after I found through reviews they were good quality. I then went for the same company's GGTS clone, which I found to be almost as good as the GGTS's I owned before..Then, a Hercules clone. I purchased an EA Mod clone for my GF, because she dropped my genuine a few times, and I wanted it back.

The only other clone I have on pre-order is the Russian 91%.. Only because it has features the KFL does not, which are important to me.

All the rest of the many I have / had, are the real-deal from the modders who designed them. I'm beginning to have a sour taste in my mouth from the actual counterfeiting of devices, and have chosen for myself, to have nothing further to do with either clones or counterfeits from now on.. It's a personal choice, and only one which can be made for one's self...

There are actually folks working as practically slave-labor in deplorable conditions to bring these inexpensive devices to us. Yes, the same could be said of other goods, but I am personally drawing the line with vaping. I always have budgeted the same amount of $$ I spent on tobacco for the past 3 years. ($255.00 a month) If I stopped vaping tomorrow, within a couple of days I would be spending that same amount again. Whatever I do not spend out of said budget goes towards other things. I choose to support the mod-makers from now on. I agree the prices have climbed, but they ARE their designs and devices, and no one is twisting my arm to spend my $$ with them if I choose.

 

[Technonut]

 

[crxess]

How many times do we have to eat the same left overs?
This has to be the same topic revisited a dozen times now in the past few months.

Can't even have a good debate as everything has been said and repeated on both sides a hundred times.

 

[BigCloudz]

Tech, you said it yourself. These mods are far from being the only product that are (probably) made in slave labor like environments. Welcome to China. You can draw your line wherever you'd like, but I am taking a different approach.

MAYBE these authentic made mod companies will reason a bit. I do not expect a $30 Nemesis. However there isn't a chance in hell I am paying up over $300...Hell, $500+ on a Nemmy either. I do understand the whole $500 thing is people flipping them on ebay (or classies alike) because they know some guy with a lot of money will buy it. Even still, NO mod should cost even $200. I'd pay $100-120$ for a nice made, authentic mod. That's reasonable to me. Like I have said in this thread and many others; I am part owner in a high precision machine shop. We build plastic injection molds that range from $15,000 on up to a half million dollars (in my sized shop). I will be the first to get ...... off about China taking away a lot of business. It has happened, BELIEVE me. It's almost shut our doors multiple times. But here's the kicker, we have came down in price a bit, and these big medical and irrigation companies are seeing the quality of the China made molds and guess what? Business is coming back. So what it took was us reasoning a bit, and the true quality of the China made molds rearing it's ugly head.

Now, a mold that has electronics, intricate moving parts, cavities and inserts with tolerances in the .0002" range is a whole different ball game from making Vape mods. That's why I know it's got to be tough for the 'authentic' guys. With that being said I also know they can come down to get within reason. Sometimes competition brings out the best in everyone. We will see.

 

[the4thpower3]

There is no way we can conclusively discuss this global economy.
It effects everything and the map takes so many turns, it's impossible to understand the directions and figure out which way we want to go.
All we know is capitalism thrives off our consumerist/materialist lives.
You will never have all the facts. But we will eventually consume ourselves.
The only way to stop it, is to stop wanting and only focus on what you need.
Since that is highly unlikely...
Gather the info you can and make a decision. You may be wrong in eyes of others.
Just make a decision based on your (perceived) needs and you will be right in your own.
Be happy that we have the freedom to make a decision and that we don't actually "need" any of this.

 

[st0nedpenguin]

That's a big if. How do you know they are using the same quality materials?

I often see posts by vapers who just received a product telling the world how great it is. Baloney after a six months or a year of use such an endorsement might have some credibility. A year later when a hundred other people agree I might start to believe it.

We're talking about devices made out of stainless steel and brass with a bit of plastic here and there, it's not like they're going to decompose because they weren't made out of implant or marine grade.

 

[madicen]

That's a big if. How do you know they are using the same quality materials?

I often see posts by vapers who just received a product telling the world how great it is. Baloney after a six months or a year of use such an endorsement might have some credibility. A year later when a hundred other people agree I might start to believe it.

Agreed...and that goes for BOTH clones and the "real deal" mods.

When it comes down to it I dont really care what anyone else has to say about a product. What matters to me is my opinion of it. I buy clones, originals, and all points in between. We've all seen posts from people that say "I ordered from X vendor and my order was all messed up!" ...followed by "I've ordered from the 70000 times and NEVER have they screwed my order up! Must be you!". Your 70000 orders dont mean squat to that guy...what matters is his ONE bad order. I'll watch reviews, educate myself as best I can...but what really matters is my personal experience with a vendor, or mod. Likewise my opinion means didly to the next guy

What I buy is what I consider to be a good value. No other reason other than I buy things that I like...seeing as I consider myself in the "collector" bracket. I have bought $200 mods that have been, and this is putting it nicely, a disappointment....and I've bought $50 clones that perform like mods that cost $200. Sometimes you never can tell till you get it home and fire 'er up.

 

[Pinggolfer]

I really feel as this is about mods but the problem comes from new vapors who read the posts about Joye, Kanger, etc and then not knowingly purchase a fake with the same look or name and then encounter problems. I have read so many posts such as their new Joye C-twist 1100 doesn't work or the button was broke. Well Joye doesn't make a 1100mah twist, but the newbie had no idea.

 

[dymrip]

Just a quick question for anyone arguing that clones are wrong... When you have a headache, and you go to the drug store, do you buy the name brand Tylenol or do you get the store brand knock-off that costs about 1/4 of the price of the name brand stuff? The knock-offs usually even say something lke, "Compare to the active ingredients in Tylenol," right on the front of the packaging!

Exactly...

 

[Pinggolfer]

Just a quick question for anyone arguing that clones are wrong... When you have a headache, and you go to the drug store, do you buy the name brand Tylenol or do you get the store brand knock-off that costs about 1/4 of the price of the name brand stuff? The knock-offs usually even say something lke, "Compare to the active ingredients in Tylenol," right on the front of the packaging!

Exactly...

You are comparing apples to oranges. They are exactly the same using the exact specifications which is not the case with a knockoff clone.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE EXCEPT PRICE*. Tylenol is just a brand name (McNeil Labs) for acetaminophen. Acetaminophen is acetaminophen, whether it's brand name is Tylenol, Datril, Panadol, Valorin, or approx. 60 other brand names. The same goes for aspirin. Aspirin is aspirin, whether it's brand name is Bayer, Emprin, ZORprin, or approx. 20 other brand names. By law, generic medication MUST have the exact same active ingredients than do the brand names.

 

[Mr343]

I look at it like this....I'm an artist thats my profession(if one can call what i do professional )

If another person looks at my work and inspired by it.....they like the idea I came up with, they like that technique I used etc. I am cool with them going off and trying it out on their own. Hell I even have other artist ask me how to and for the most part, I'm happy to help them out. ok ya I may loose me a few sales but...i'm doing alright. My thought is while they learn that...i'm moving on and up.(hopefully)
Hell we all have to learn and grow and mimicking is a great way to do that, opens that idea up to more folks too. Not such a bad thing.

Now if they go off and make exact replicas of my work and then have the bloody gall to put my logo, my name, forge my signature with a star *Clone on the sales page.


OHHHH I'd be kickin some butts...or ok more realistically getting a lawyer to legally kick butts as its Illegal.


And who of you would blame me??

None

 

[Technonut]

Just a quick question for anyone arguing that clones are wrong... When you have a headache, and you go to the drug store, do you buy the name brand Tylenol or do you get the store brand knock-off that costs about 1/4 of the price of the name brand stuff? The knock-offs usually even say something lke, "Compare to the active ingredients in Tylenol," right on the front of the packaging!

Exactly...

Actually when it comes to OTC meds, I do buy the name brand.. If you get a chance, watch a documentary on Hulu called "Counterfeit Culture " LOT's of meds are not always what they seem, regardless of the efforts of the FDA. I play it as safe as I can, and avoid the off-brands.

Counterfeit Culture | Search results | Watch TV online | Free | Hulu

Counterfeit Culture is a one-hour documentary that explores the dangerous and sometimes deadly world of fake products.

 

[WattWick]

Everyone who owns a gennie, please raise your hand.
Everyone who only owns gennies either made by Raidy or made with his permission, lower your hand.
Those who still have their hand raised: Please stop moralizing about clones.

 

[_sidekick_]

You are comparing apples to oranges. They are exactly the same using the exact specifications which is not the case with a knockoff clone.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE EXCEPT PRICE*. Tylenol is just a brand name (McNeil Labs) for acetaminophen. Acetaminophen is acetaminophen, whether it's brand name is Tylenol, Datril, Panadol, Valorin, or approx. 60 other brand names. The same goes for aspirin. Aspirin is aspirin, whether it's brand name is Bayer, Emprin, ZORprin, or approx. 20 other brand names. By law, generic medication MUST have the exact same active ingredients than do the brand names.

I've seen many claims that XXX clone is a 1:1 copy/clone of the real deal. The private V2 clone for example.

Also, say the clone uses 409 stainless instead of 308L grade stainless, why does it matter? It's cheaper and mods aren't exactly surgical tools that need to be 100% sanitary. In this application, there is no need to use the more expensive alloys of stainless if the lower grades will suffice.