Status
Not open for further replies.

ModBox

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2013
196
94
United Kingdom
How do liquid manufacturers design their juices? What do they use? Say for example digbys, mrs lords, trip hammer, ruthless or any of the premium eliquid sellers. Do they start out with flavourings such as LorAnn or Capella flavour concentrate and mix and match them until they come up with the right combination or so they somehow design them from scratch using god knows what. I read companies like house of liquid extract their flavours from real tobacco and steep them in whisky barrels etc but how? I'm really interested in how it's possible to design such realistic eliquid flavours of all kinds of food, drinks and sweets products. How do they attain effects such as sweetness, sourness, fizzyness, dryness etc. Things like cola or turkish delight flavour - how would you even begin to create something that tastes like that?

I don't really know anything about it but would love to know. Is it magic?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Susan~S

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 12, 2014
16,937
11,691
67
Mpls/St.Paul, MN
I'm really interested in how it's possible to design such realistic eliquid flavours of all kinds of food, drinks and sweets products. How do they attain effects such as sweetness, sourness, fizzyness, dryness etc. Things like cola or turkish delight flavour - how would you even begin to create something that tastes like that?

I don't really know anything about it but would love to know. Is it magic?

A lot of:
* reading
* experimenting
* trial and error
* documenting
* patience

and a lot of vaping!
 

horton

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 11, 2010
21,653
1,692
Left Side of Florida
Maybe it's "better living through chemistry"..... Could be some of the juice vendors have advanced degrees in food chemistry and are mixing various chemicals to imitate flavors. Heck, take a look at the grocery store and you will see all sorts of different chemicals and combinations of chemicals on labels used to flavor foods. For instance, I marvel at the Creme Brulee coffee creamer my wife uses. Doesn't say "ground up flan" on the label, but it does list a bunch of long words I assume are flavorings in one way or the other -- least I hope they are.... just my :2c:
 

Hill

Super Member
ECF Veteran
May 7, 2013
467
521
Texas USA
It's not as complicated as it would appear the flavors are already available they just experiment with different ratios and flavors until they come up with something good. As Susan S said trial and error and patience. they even have sweeteners, and sour flavor, fizz and other things. Mix and match pretty much.

I DIY myself but I usually keep my flavors pretty simple. I don't have the patience to mix something up, wait a few days to steep, taste it, make alterations, wait a few more days, etc.
 
Last edited:

k3vin

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Aug 31, 2010
1,970
1,609
OK USA
www.vaperstek.org
I'm going to add something here about mixing . I've been mixing quite a long time. And it does take some experience and some trial and error of course. I can't tell you how many time when r&d a new flavor, for sometimes a month or 3, only to find it didn't so what I wanted it to do and I start from scratch.

It's not hard actually. But the way I do it whe. I started is to make sure I smelled every bottle if flavoring, to get a "scent memory" and then worked with that one flavor until I found the sweet spot for it, for my tastes. The. The fun comes In once
You find out how each flavor responds to certain uses:% the. You can move I. To adding In other flavors. But go slowly. Say you want to do a watermelon recipe. I will do 2-4 minimum recipes slightly tweaked ones way or the other. Sometimes they fail according to my tastes and I start over. After a few years maybe less it becomes second nature about what works with what.
I steep but don't go overboard, and each to their own. I let the flavors meld naturally. Remember to make some single flavors like banana, it can take anywhere to 4-6 molecules just to make a banana then try adding jn a nilla wafer flavor to it. Yada, yada.
Do bit lose patience . One thing that has helped me immensely is to everytkne I take a lid off if a floor I get a whiff of it's
Profile, do not underestimate this habit. The scent memory muscle is a very strong one. And it will help you along your way to making really good eliquid. Don't be scared and experiment. If you want a watermelon don't be scared to throw a flavor In which has no bearing on watermelon. You will be surprised at what a watermelon you may get.
It's all about fun and experimenting.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
 

Crunktanium

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 2, 2013
815
427
Florida (east coast)
How do liquid manufacturers design their juices?

Anyone can create some really great recipes (imho) if they try hard enough. But many of the premium vendors hire mixologists who come from the food and beverage industries. Some of them have been working with food most of their life. Others have been mixing drinks in bars for decades which helps a great deal to understand complimenting flavors. And it can take a good bit of time, money and patience even for the pro's to create a really great recipe. Which is why premium tends to cost a premium although not all premium is really that. There are many who use a fancy bottle and try to market an average juice as something of a higher caliber.
 

ModBox

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2013
196
94
United Kingdom
Interesting stuff. What 'stock' flavourings would they use and where would they get them? I'd imagine that most of the smaller 1 or 2 man companies use pre-bought flavourings and then just mix them together to create their own unique twist. To design something like fruit flavour entirely from scratch would be incredibly difficult and require much technical science. Would they just use something like capella drops?
 

ModBox

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2013
196
94
United Kingdom
I guess we're talking about 2 different things, both of which I find an interesting subject.

1) Big manufacturers - designing flavours from scratch
2) Small juice companies - mixing and matching and tweaking those pre-bought concentrated flavourings designed by the big manufacturers

Is that a correct assumption? I wouldn't think any of these smaller companies could afford to employ scientists dedicated juice design whereas the dekang and hangsen could.

I was just reading this:

"Many of the processed foods that you buy today come with an ingredient label that lists "artificial flavors" as one of the key ingredients. Artificial flavors are simply chemical mixtures that mimic a natural flavor in some way.
Anything that we smell has to contain some sort of volatile chemical -- a chemical that evaporates and enters a person's nose (See question 139 for details). The evaporated chemical comes in contact with sensory cells in the nose and activates them. In the case of taste, a chemical has to activate the taste buds. Taste is a fairly crude sense -- there are only four values that your tongue can sense (sweet, salty, sour, bitter) -- while the nose can sense thousands of different odors. Therefore most artificial flavors have both taste and smell components.
Any natural flavor is normally quite complex, with dozens or hundreds of chemicals interacting to create the taste/smell. But it turns out that many flavors -- particularly fruit flavors -- have just one or a few dominant chemical components that carry the bulk of the taste/smell signal. Many of these chemicals are called esters. For example, the ester called Octyl Acetate (CH3COOC8H17) is a fundamental component in orange flavor. The ester called isoamyl acetate (CH3COOC5H11) is a fundamental component of banana flavor. If you add these esters to a product, the product will taste, to some degree, like orange or banana. To make more realistic flavors you add other chemicals in the correct proportions to get closer and closer to the real thing. You can do that by trial and error or by chemical analysis of the real thing.
There are hundreds of chemicals known to be flavoring agents. It's interesting that they are normally mixed to create "known" tastes. People make artificial grape, cherry, orange, banana, apple, etc. flavors, but it is very rare to mix up something that no one has ever tasted before. But it can and does happen occasionally -- take Juicy Fruit gum as an example!"

I assume that no small eliquid creators would be messing around with esters like Octyl Acetate (CH3COOC8H17) or isoamyl acetate (CH3COOC5H11) to create the perfect orange or banana but I could be underestimating them. I don't know.

Do you often find when trying premium liquids you can taste what brand (and possibly specific flavour) of concentrate flavourings have been used if they do indeed use them?

I guess 'organic' flavourings is another different ball game involving somehow extracting flavourings from natural products or finding a company that provides organic concentrates to do if for you.
 
Last edited:
DIY really took the mystique out of flavors for me... Turns out it seems most are using the same things I can buy and use and charging way too much

I completely agree.
It's also caused a bit of flavor ADHD since I have 80+ flavor concentrates and can never decide on one of my mixes to vape. I feel like having access to so much has caused me to value each flavor/mix a lot less since I already want to try something new right after mixing :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread