Flavourful DIY eLiquid under 450F

[MoeKeto]

I was only kinda kidding, like Joel said vaping at 600 would be extremely hot. The most I’ve vaped at was near 500 and that was with an old coil that was gunker up with a serious loss of performance. So I doubt you are vaping at 600. More than likely it is inaccuracies with the tcr numbers. So while your mod may be fairly accurate with regards to the temperature. If the tcr isnt set right for the metal of the coil and all the other voodoo a mod does to determine the temperature it will be inaccurate. Please don’t quit vaping though, even over 450 your juice is still safer than a cigarette

Oh heck no, I will never go back, I will fix this issue and move on. I can’t even imagine not vaping. I wasn’t a cigarette smoker, but shisha, and now I can’t even stomach being around a shisha, let alone smoke it. I mean the flavour I get is 100x better on my iJoy Captain PD270 with a SMOK Big Baby Beast and a Baby RBA with those SS316L installed on it. No way I’m going back, and no way am I not making my own juice. I will go back to the shop and set this unit up right, or replace it or return it.

As for the vape at 450F plus, well, the results are scary actually especially for someone like me who uses an SS coil. They show 10x the aldehydes and carbonyl, but that’s alright because I want to reach below that, and now luckily I know that it’s possible as I fix my device.


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[BrotherBob]

As for the vape at 450F plus, well, the results are scary actually especially for someone like me who uses an SS coil. They show 10x the aldehydes and carbonyl, but that’s alright because I want to reach below that, and now luckily I know that it’s possible as I fix my device.

Might like to read the wisdom of these posts, they say it all for me:
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...re-and-lower-resistance.706656/#post-16692106
Resistance is futile. Ohms are not king. Wattage is. • r/electronic_cigarette

 

[madstabber]

Oh heck no, I will never go back, I will fix this issue and move on. I can’t even imagine not vaping. I wasn’t a cigarette smoker, but shisha, and now I can’t even stomach being around a shisha, let alone smoke it. I mean the flavour I get is 100x better on my iJoy Captain PD270 with a SMOK Big Baby Beast and a Baby RBA with those SS316L installed on it. No way I’m going back, and no way am I not making my own juice. I will go back to the shop and set this unit up right, or replace it or return it.

As for the vape at 450F plus, well, the results are scary actually especially for someone like me who uses an SS coil. They show 10x the aldehydes and carbonyl, but that’s alright because I want to reach below that, and now luckily I know that it’s possible as I fix my device.


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All I use is stainless steel coils. I prefer the ability to use power or tc modes. I don’t worry about the dangers of vaping with ss wire very much. I don’t go crazy vaping it as hot as I can but I don’t worry vaping at reasonable temperatures. That’s just my take but I understand your concern. After all most of us vape to stop smoking because of health concerns in the first place.

 

[MoeKeto]

All I use is stainless steel coils. I prefer the ability to use power or tc modes. I don’t worry about the dangers of vaping with ss wire very much. I don’t go crazy vaping it as hot as I can but I don’t worry vaping at reasonable temperatures. That’s just my take but I understand your concern. After all most of us vape to stop smoking because of health concerns in the first place.

True that! I love SS as well, but it seems like my mod is not calibrating with the material properly, because 600F would probably send flames through the Pulse 22 lol. Also, there’s no way that my iJoy Captain PD270 with a Big Baby Beast and an RBA with SS316L can reach this heat at 60W and 0.25 ohm coil. So simply I think that it’s just the Therion BF DNA 75C is not calibrated, because they had to recalibrate the Ti coil as well.

The health concerned I mentioned are based on some recent research looking at carbonyls, turns out all we have to do is vape below 430F and we are golden.

I was worried because at 430F I couldn’t even taste the juice, but that’s of course, the problem with the recently purchased Therion I got.


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[IDJoel]

I’m guessing I got something wrong lol, because that setup is not a monster at all.

Yep; thats 11+wraps, and that is pretty huge to me!

@MoeKeto, besides not having the resistance locked, did the device get set for the correct the correct wire type (SS316L)?

I have been looking at the user manual for the Therion 75C and saw that it was rather lacking (like most manuals). There is no description of button-press sequences... just directions to use the e-scribe software. I don't know if it is a mistake, or if Lost Vapes noticed the deficient instructions, but they have two different manuals linked on there website.

On the main Therion 75C webpage; the linked manual is actually for the Therion 166 (which uses the DNA250 chipset). This manual does offer some button sequences (see pages 21-22 for temp control resistance lock). Again; I have never used any Lost Vape device, so I am only guessing here. But, often chipsets manufacturers use the shame button sequences across multiple devices.

For comparison, when you go to the main download page on Lost Vapes, and select the Therion 75C, you are presented with some different download options. The manual is the correct one of the 75C. This one discusses the color screen, and bottom-feed use. However; no button sequences.

As you move forward I would suggest you consider doing the following (in this order):

1. Download EScribe. You will need a Windows, Mac, or Linux computer.
   
2. Review EScribe manual (especially the first part about updating EScribe itself; AND updating your device's firmware.
3. Update both as needed.
4. Continue reading manual and set up device as recommended. (Not having one in front of me; I can't take you any further... sorry)
5. While setting up your Therion; you might want to vape on one of your other rigs. This will allow you Pulse to return to room temp so you can get a proper resistance lock.
6. Make sure you have the correct wire selected (SS316L).
7. Once it is all set up to your satisfaction; try vaping it. If it is behaving the way you want; you are done. If not; I would head back to the shop.

If I am remembering correctly (always a crapshoot), @madstabber said he had EScribe gurus he would call on if you need help. Be sure to sing out if you want/need them.
I hope you get it figured out; best wishes!

 

[MoeKeto]

Yep; thats 11+wraps, and that is pretty huge to me!

@MoeKeto, besides not having the resistance locked, did the device get set for the correct the correct wire type (SS316L)?

I have been looking at the user manual for the Therion 75C and saw that it was rather lacking (like most manuals). There is no description of button-press sequences... just directions to use the e-scribe software. I don't know if it is a mistake, or if Lost Vapes noticed the deficient instructions, but they have two different manuals linked on there website.

On the main Therion 75C webpage; the linked manual is actually for the Therion 166 (which uses the DNA250 chipset). This manual does offer some button sequences (see pages 21-22 for temp control resistance lock). Again; I have never used any Lost Vape device, so I am only guessing here. But, often chipsets manufacturers use the shame button sequences across multiple devices.

For comparison, when you go to the main download page on Lost Vapes, and select the Therion 75C, you are presented with some different download options. The manual is the correct one of the 75C. This one discusses the color screen, and bottom-feed use. However; no button sequences.

As you move forward I would suggest you consider doing the following (in this order):

1. Download EScribe. You will need a Windows, Mac, or Linux computer.
   
2. Review EScribe manual (especially the first part about updating EScribe itself; AND updating your device's firmware.
3. Update both as needed.
4. Continue reading manual and set up device as recommended. (Not having one in front of me; I can't take you any further... sorry)
5. While setting up your Therion; you might want to vape on one of your other rigs. This will allow you Pulse to return to room temp so you can get a proper resistance lock.
6. Make sure you have the correct wire selected (SS316L).
7. Once it is all set up to your satisfaction; try vaping it. If it is behaving the way you want; you are done. If not; I would head back to the shop.

If I am remembering correctly (always a crapshoot), @madstabber said he had EScribe gurus he would call on if you need help. Be sure to sing out if you want/need them.
I hope you get it figured out; best wishes!

Thanks so much for this! You have no idea how much I appreciate this. I tried installing the EScribe and chose both the international and US versions since I live in Canada and neither could connect to the device itself. So I’m pretty much out of options.

I did lock the resistance the first time, and the shop did it for me as well, and I certainly tried my best the second time when I made the coil in the pic. I used the MOD as well as Coil Master’s ohmmeter, and both have super close readings at room temperature. I’m going back tomorrow to figure this out. This shop better make it right or we are done. I could’ve bought this online but wanted to deal with a shop for such a purpose. They seem to be good people so I have my hopes up.

Again, I thank you so much, and I’ll be back here letting you all know what happened either way. So expect an update tomorrow or Sunday for sure.

Y’all have a great Easter weekend.


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[IDJoel]

I tried installing the EScribe and chose both the international and US versions since I live in Canada and neither could connect to the device itself. So I’m pretty much out of options.

It has been a l o n g while since I used EScribe (an early vaporshark); but as I remember, I just connected the box mod via a usb cable, waited for the computer to recognize something was connected, and then started the EScribe software. I never had a connection issue.

I did lock the resistance the first time, and the shop did it for me as well, and I certainly tried my best the second time when I made the coil in the pic. I used the MOD as well as Coil Master’s ohmmeter, and both have super close readings at room temperature.

It sounds like it is reading correctly. And, the resistance jibes with what Steam Engine says it should be.

I don't do much with large(r) wire gauges. I found I didn't like to slower ramp up times, the power drain, and I am not a cloud chaser. I am wondering if that is not part of your flavor problem. An eleven wrap, 34ga. coil, must have a fairly long ramp up time. If it is not given sufficient power, and/or time (like taking a full ten second hit, it may not be getting satisfactorily hot. And, therefore, not providing enough flavor. Just grasping at straws...

This shop better make it right or we are done. I could’ve bought this online but wanted to deal with a shop for such a purpose. They seem to be good people so I have my hopes up.

I hope that works out for you. While you are there; see if they will show you how to connect it to EScribe, and give you a run-through on its basic functions. If you are using a lap-top; you might want to take it with you, so they can show you on your own equipment.

Again, I thank you so much, and I’ll be back here letting you all know what happened either way. So expect an update tomorrow or Sunday for sure.

Looking forward to it. Good luck!

 

[MoeKeto]

It has been a l o n g while since I used EScribe (an early vaporshark); but as I remember, I just connected the box mod via a usb cable, waited for the computer to recognize something was connected, and then started the EScribe software. I never had a connection issue.

It sounds like it is reading correctly. And, the resistance jibes with what Steam Engine says it should be.

I don't do much with large(r) wire gauges. I found I didn't like to slower ramp up times, the power drain, and I am not a cloud chaser. I am wondering if that is not part of your flavor problem. An eleven wrap, 34ga. coil, must have a fairly long ramp up time. If it is not given sufficient power, and/or time (like taking a full ten second hit, it may not be getting satisfactorily hot. And, therefore, not providing enough flavor. Just grasping at straws...

I hope that works out for you. While you are there; see if they will show you how to connect it to EScribe, and give you a run-through on its basic functions. If you are using a lap-top; you might want to take it with you, so they can show you on your own equipment.

Looking forward to it. Good luck!

Thanks again man!

I will restart my PC and try it out, and my wire is 24ga not 34, not sure if that was a typo or if I had messed up the number when I first posted. If you have any information for me on how to build for flavour, I’m all eyes and ears. This is new for me but I’m eager to learn. The trouble is that between reviews and the countless articles as well as the fast paced development of the equipment, I must say that I am overwhelmed lol.

I’m proud of going that DIY and rebuildable route, as I truly enjoy the control, but I need to figure this out entirely before I invest further. Currently looking to order a lot of flavours to recreate that Wildberry Cobbler from that little shop in NW Georgia lol.


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[Alter]

Thanks for your question. It is an SS316L 24ga single wire, wrapped as a single coil with 3mm diameter, resulting resistance was 0.553.

Thats a lotta wraps according to the pic. There's no way that coil can cool down enough to ever think of chain vaping, the extra darkened center in the pic tells the tale of asking for more juice than the wicking can provide. Wider wraps using less wraps being able to use more wicking to supply the build along with spacing ever so slightly the wraps so its not a contact coil. Making a simple 34/24 or 26 clapton to help dissipate the amount of heat your making, considering every clapton wrap wire loop as a juice channel. I vape nothing but clapton builds, single core 34 wrap, kicks the chit out of any single wire build for great cloudz. My subohm days are past so a 29/34 clapton, 1.4Ω in a subtank mini with rayon wicking...great vaping.
IMO the bottom line... coils wide enough to supply the juice your needing. Make a wider coil, less wraps, understand ramp up time and read up on rayon and its wicking ability compared to cotton.
Taking a couple seconds of unpowered after the vape puff helps cool down the coil, as long as you hear sizzle your burning juice onto the coil.

 

[MoeKeto]

Thats a lotta wraps according to the pic. There's no way that coil can cool down enough to ever think of chain vaping, the extra darkened center in the pic tells the tale of asking for more juice than the wicking can provide. Wider wraps using less wraps being able to use more wicking to supply the build along with spacing ever so slightly the wraps so its not a contact coil. Making a simple 34/24 or 26 clapton to help dissipate the amount of heat your making, considering every clapton wrap wire loop as a juice channel. I vape nothing but clapton builds, single core 34 wrap, kicks the chit out of any single wire build for great cloudz. My subohm days are past so a 29/34 clapton, 1.4Ω in a subtank mini with rayon wicking...great vaping.
IMO the bottom line... coils wide enough to supply the juice your needing. Make a wider coil, less wraps, understand ramp up time and read up on rayon and its wicking ability compared to cotton.
Taking a couple seconds of unpowered after the vape puff helps cool down the coil, as long as you hear sizzle your burning juice onto the coil.

Thanks so much! This is all great stuff. I’ll try my best to do all of that once I get the mod issue figured out. We established for sure that I’m not getting 600F as I can chain vape and I don’t feel the atomizer getting super hot or anything close to it, and I’m very sensitive to heat, so I would have felt it for sure. This is certainly not doing its job properly, once we get it figured out I will follow your advice. I will stick with temp control, and have already ordered fused Clapton all SS. It will be fun to try a new build.
And I agree with you, I got a lot to learn.

Thanks again, and please shower me with knowledge.

Also, when you go up to above ohm, will you need to increase the wattage? I mean school me on how to get the best flavour even more. The info you’ve given is a goldmine, and I’d like more if there is anymore. I want the best and purest flavour, I really couldn’t care less about the clouds. Just need a flavourful and dense vape, cool is nice but not necessary, flavour, however, is paramount.


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[Alter]

I could never totally grasp why some vape at such high temps. 50 watts and when I use TC its 380 to 400F is the highest I went when I built nasty subohm builds....but they were claptons and in a tank, not a dripper.
Looking into rayon as wicking, depending on where you live a sallys beauty supply cellucotton box 44060 is the box I know for sure. Properly thinned rayon will out perform and outlast any cotton. Been vaping rayon over 3 years now and never think of changing.
The short of it all is..... cotton the juice flows inside the fiber, so the cotton fibers plug until no more open fibers left to flow then dryhitting begins. Rayon...juice flows outside the fiber so no expanding of the fibers, no plugging...your coil cocoons with gunk long before the rayon poops out. Thinning the tails is crucial cause too bulky rayon tails choke juice flow to the coil. Rayon flows juice like crazy and I can see restricted flow cotton becomes can cause lack of flavor.
I burnt the centers out of microcoils enough that I can't be bothered anymore so spaced coils is my only way.... burnt rayon is nasty.

 

[ShamrockPat]

IMHO, going back to the store to fix it or complain is wasting your time and theirs. And no store employee or owner has ever understood anything about Temperature vaping. YMMV. So, good luck with that.

You do have a quality mod and atty. You need to watch a video or 3 on both your mod and atty.
But why oh why would I say that .......... Hmmm. Your coil position is all wrong. See those 2 notches on the outer edges, 180 degrees apart, yup, that's how you line it up. And in straight power mode, you yourself need 70 watts before you taste the juice.

 

[MoeKeto]

I could never totally grasp why some vape at such high temps. 50 watts and when I use TC its 380 to 400F is the highest I went when I built nasty subohm builds....but they were claptons and in a tank, not a dripper.
Looking into rayon as wicking, depending on where you live a sallys beauty supply cellucotton box 44060 is the box I know for sure. Properly thinned rayon will out perform and outlast any cotton. Been vaping rayon over 3 years now and never think of changing.
The short of it all is..... cotton the juice flows inside the fiber, so the cotton fibers plug until no more open fibers left to flow then dryhitting begins. Rayon...juice flows outside the fiber so no expanding of the fibers, no plugging...your coil cocoons with gunk long before the rayon poops out. Thinning the tails is crucial cause too bulky rayon tails choke juice flow to the coil. Rayon flows juice like crazy and I can see restricted flow cotton becomes can cause lack of flavor.
I burnt the centers out of microcoils enough that I can't be bothered anymore so spaced coils is my only way.... burnt rayon is nasty.

Wow thanks so much! I’m in Ottawa, Canada’s capital. I will check out beauty shops and ask for this material. Vaping has me going to places looking for all sorts of stuff lol.


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[ShamrockPat]

Pic for clarity

 

[MoeKeto]

IMHO, going back to the store to fix it or complain is wasting your time and theirs. And no store employee or owner has ever understood anything about Temperature vaping. YMMV. So, good luck with that.

You do have a quality mod and atty. You need to watch a video or 3 on both your mod and atty.
But why oh why would I say that .......... Hmmm. Your coil position is all wrong. See those 2 notches on the outer edges, 180 degrees apart, yup, that's how you line it up. And in straight power mode, you yourself need 70 watts before you taste the juice.

Thanks a lot! I will definitely look into it. To be perfectly honest, I’m new at this and I spent the money just so that I can have that quality vape, mostly for the flavour. The thing, however, is that the shop I bought this from offers good support especially when you buy their build service which is $5 but they teach you how to build the coil, to the best of their knowledge. I just want to make sure that my mod is working properly, has all the values correctly right out of the box. At least this way I can build on a proper foundation. I do have a 7 day return period, which hasn’t passed, so if they can’t figure it out, I can return it and go back to my iJoy and wait for temp control until I educate myself on the topic.
I’m truly hoping that they know something about temp control because the guy who builds their coils is supposed to be this temp control guru who only builds Ti.
One issue was on the Ti coil they built, we had a problem with it until he had to change the value for the resistance to make sense of it all. Oh well, we will see what can be done.


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[MoeKeto]

View attachment 733003
Pic for clarity

Thanks a lot for your help and these pics. I appreciate it a lot. I guess all I have done is basically twist it the wrong way, invert it, so to speak. My question, if you don’t mind clarifying, why would I need to reach 70W in power mode to taste the flavour? I’m very curious to know. Newbie here.


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[Fozzy71]

I’m guessing I got something wrong lol, because that setup is not a monster at all. Here’s a pic below

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That coil is 45 degrees off where it should be. The air tubes are not going to be lined up with the sides of the coil and is probably a big part of why you have to go so high on the temp/watts to get any flavor.

View attachment 733003
Pic for clarity

This is how it should be lined up.

Pull the wick and use a coiling rod to twist it 45 degrees clockwise then dry burn it (at very low wattage) to make sure you don't have hot spots and re-wick it.

 

[MoeKeto]

That coil is 45 degrees off where it should be. The air tubes are not going to be lined up with the sides of the coil.



This is how it should be lined up.

Pull the wick and use a coiling rod to twist it 45 degrees clockwise then dry burn it (at very low wattage) to make sure you don't have hot spots and re-wick it.

Thanks!
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the air tubes were adjustable, and I have the coil right in the middle of them now.

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[Fozzy71]

Thanks!
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the air tubes were adjustable, and I have the coil right in the middle of them now.

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I am guessing you are not locking the barrel down properly. The deck has a notch (that the coil needs to be lined up with) the barrel fits in when properly pushed/twisted down and seated all the way. If you push down and twist the barrel to lock it down all the way your tubes are probably going to touch your coil because it is misaligned.

Here is a pic of mine from above with the barrel on and a pic of the coil with the barrel removed where I circled the notch because my camera didn't focus thanks to my shaky hands.

Here is my pulse 22 with a 0.35 ohm build on my RSQ vaping TC SS mode at 450 - 470 F and 55 watts with airflow wide open.

 

[Alter]

Ottawa, Canada’s capital. I will check out beauty shops

You should have no problem finding a Sallys in Ottawa. I went into hairdressers in town until I found one that uses that 44060 box. Explained what I wanted it for along with a quick vape education to those who wanted to listen. She gave me a few feet from the BOTTOM of the box that was clean, raced home to wicked up my first build in a subtank mini...rest is history. If the rayon has any sorta breakin taste...its wicked wrong, usually to loose in the coil. Bit of research and there is a Sallys in Kamloops so next visit to my son thats a 7 hour drive...got into town later in the afternoon so first stop was Sallys to get my 500' box of vape nirvana. Cut the box into manageable ziplocks so it stays clean, always digging into the box the dust gets in so grabbing a ziplock is much easier.