Plastic Bottles & E-Liquid
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its not a matter of caustic or not. its a simple interaction between liquids and containers. You can store hydrochloric acid in a plastic container if it is of the correct type(take a second and think of the large lead-acid battery in your car, its made of plastic and sits for years because the acid and plastic cannot interact).
i think the point everyone is trying to make here is that the nicotine and or flavorings are interacting with certian types of plastic bottles that vendors use and using glass bottles would prevent this.
But...this does make me wonder about the fact so many tanks, and cartomizers are made of plastic and i believe to some degree the filler that holds the liquid is a polyester blend or similar, what effect that might be having. and what if any alternative filler would tolerate the heat that cartomizers put out.
but my 2 cents on plastic or not, if you diy and store for a couple of weeks or longer yes go glass. If you order online and consume the liquid withing a week or two you likely have less to worry about, unless its premade in china or something. As opposed to being made fresh in the us. However glass dropper bottles are easy to wash, and extremely cheap. Go to any office supply store, Walmart's craft dept, or a hobby shop i bet you can get a 30ml bottle for less than a buck. Or they are also available online im sure for cheap also. then just simply pour your orders that come in into your glass bottles and dont worry.
people say :theres a reason nicotine is sent in glass bottles" yes your right, because in that pure form it is pretty darn strong. When diluted with pg/vg/ flavorings its fairly weak. but over time it can do the things you are saying to the bottles. then again if you are cleaning out your bottles with hot or boiling water and reusing them the heat from boiling can certianly weaken them.
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Interesting Post Everyone and good to see these issues being raised.
As previously stated, PG has a shelf life of two years and Glycerin even less. The flavourings or sweetners used in ejuice would likely last a lot less. This period does NOT commence when the product lands in your mail box but from when the base was intially manufactured (ie before the ejuice company purchased it).
Also, both PG and glycerine increase the bioavailibilty of ANYTHING that is disolved in them. So a great vehicle for getting the nicotine into your blood but also anything else that is dissolved in it. This is not rocket science but basic commonsense. If your ejuice is interacting with the material it is contained within in anyway, then your ejuice is contaminated...end of story. I guess its possible that smoking tobacco is actually safer than vaping PET plastic.
So I'll add to earlier comments in this thread to generate a list of standards..be good to get feedback:
1. Ejuice should only be stored in glass containers (as well as its ingredients prior to manufacture).
2. Ejuice containers should show a use by date corresponding to that of the ingredient with the shortest shelf life.
3. Ejuice containers should list ALL ingredients included.
4. Ejuice containers should have child proof lids (candy flavoured ejuice is a fatality just to waiting to happen).
The fact that so few manufacturers follow any of these simple standards that apply to all pharmacuetical products for human consumption indicates that most ejuice manufacturers fail to meet basic professional standards and probably make vaping more unhealthier than it should be.
Dont get me wrong, I'm a fully paid up member of the Vaping Nation but its a general failure to acknowlegde or deal with issues like these that pose a bigger threat to a wider acceptance of vaping than critics of vaping.
As previously stated, PG has a shelf life of two years and Glycerin even less. The flavourings or sweetners used in ejuice would likely last a lot less. This period does NOT commence when the product lands in your mail box but from when the base was intially manufactured (ie before the ejuice company purchased it).
Also, both PG and glycerine increase the bioavailibilty of ANYTHING that is disolved in them. So a great vehicle for getting the nicotine into your blood but also anything else that is dissolved in it. This is not rocket science but basic commonsense. If your ejuice is interacting with the material it is contained within in anyway, then your ejuice is contaminated...end of story. I guess its possible that smoking tobacco is actually safer than vaping PET plastic.
So I'll add to earlier comments in this thread to generate a list of standards..be good to get feedback:
1. Ejuice should only be stored in glass containers (as well as its ingredients prior to manufacture).
2. Ejuice containers should show a use by date corresponding to that of the ingredient with the shortest shelf life.
3. Ejuice containers should list ALL ingredients included.
4. Ejuice containers should have child proof lids (candy flavoured ejuice is a fatality just to waiting to happen).
The fact that so few manufacturers follow any of these simple standards that apply to all pharmacuetical products for human consumption indicates that most ejuice manufacturers fail to meet basic professional standards and probably make vaping more unhealthier than it should be.
Dont get me wrong, I'm a fully paid up member of the Vaping Nation but its a general failure to acknowlegde or deal with issues like these that pose a bigger threat to a wider acceptance of vaping than critics of vaping.
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Personally I don't know what plastic tastes like and I'm too new to vaping to know how juices I bought change in taste as I've found already that some do... like loosing a lot of the flavoring taste... and thought it was the unfavorable consequence of steeping. The fact that flavor does diminish with some made me think I was just tasting the pg/vg more. Here's what I do know though. Many years ago I had an odor problem after flooding. I bought huge amounts of ground cinammon and cloves (the whole clove.) I stored them in big plastic jars that previously contained spices and other cooking powders from a restaurant supply. Long story but they never got used and I stored them in a closet. Over the years, a couple at first, the jars began melting is the best I can describe. The walls of the jars began to collapse as if they had been heated and a heavy weight placed on top... crinkled and crimped the walls. I had the same kind of jars still storing cooking powders.. granulated garlic, etc and they never did that. So I know without any doubt cinnamon and cloves both "heat" up plastic and degrade it. Additionally, most housewives know about orange products and how corrosive they are. Products containing orange oils carry warnings to that effect. Even real orange air fresheners carry a warning not to let it mist onto vinyl counters or floors. I've never seen that warning on lemon products though so I don't think its an acidic factor. Just a personal note: Being allergic to pesticides, I've used cinnamon, cloves water (why I saved it) and orange household sprays to kill bugs on plants as well as ants. Reading this thread and having my memory joggled, I think I'm going to pitch that cinnamon roll juice I just got and loooove. It did my tongue in last night.... can't be good for the rest of what it touches. ;-)
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I don't want to go off topic (don't think it is) but I have a question. I was a total noob and bought from a local brick and mortar...Zikwid... where they had hundreds of filled juice bottles. Evidently, I had a hard to fill request. Zero nic jolly-rancher-like watermelon. They had a hard time but finally settled on one they said was made by Boge. I just looked at that bottle and, unlike all the other bottles I have with and triangle and "4" on the bottom, it has no markings at all. It is also a much harder plastic and glass-like clear. Could it be PED and is that a better plastic bottle than the others? Thanks.
Well, I read to page 19 and gave up.
No where were any Studies to support freaking out over the use of plastic.
A constant push to buy Glass was evident.
Many statement of Bad Flavors/Discoloration made, but contrary to many post elsewhere stating good long term storage.
No mention of the natural breakdown of chemicals once mixed with other chemicals.
Good theories on leaching - possibly brought forward from PET TEST RESULTS
No mention anywhere of possible chemical bonding to plastics.
Please feel free to protect yourself in any way you feel proper. I simply ask that same right.
We have the FDA for assuming and acting without Fact. I do not believe they need any help in backing us into a corner.
Not my intent to sway, argue or upset anyone here. Simply my views poorly expressed.
Take care all!
No where were any Studies to support freaking out over the use of plastic.
A constant push to buy Glass was evident.
Many statement of Bad Flavors/Discoloration made, but contrary to many post elsewhere stating good long term storage.
No mention of the natural breakdown of chemicals once mixed with other chemicals.
Good theories on leaching - possibly brought forward from PET TEST RESULTS
No mention anywhere of possible chemical bonding to plastics.
Please feel free to protect yourself in any way you feel proper. I simply ask that same right.
We have the FDA for assuming and acting without Fact. I do not believe they need any help in backing us into a corner.
Not my intent to sway, argue or upset anyone here. Simply my views poorly expressed.
Take care all!
I'm no expert, I only play one on TV, but I don't get the vibe, "Oh, the e juice might be dangerous on it's own, so I'm going to mock you for being concerned about plastic melting into your liquid cause you don't even know if the liquid is safe..."
Like are people serious here?
It's the equivalent of saying, hey we know eating french fries isn't healthy, so how dare you be concerned if someone dumps formaldehyde in the frier and paint in the ketchup?
Come on now.
I'm not saying at all that I know or agree that the plastics do leech, please don't twist my words.
I am saying you sound real ignorant for mocking people because they would prefer to avoid what we know is a health hazard if it turns out true.
Simply put, if plastic is leeching into your juice, it's probably safe to assume it's not safe to vaporize and inhale melted plastic that has combined with other liquid and yet you have people trying to belittle others for their concerns...
Like are people serious here?
It's the equivalent of saying, hey we know eating french fries isn't healthy, so how dare you be concerned if someone dumps formaldehyde in the frier and paint in the ketchup?
Come on now.
I'm not saying at all that I know or agree that the plastics do leech, please don't twist my words.
I am saying you sound real ignorant for mocking people because they would prefer to avoid what we know is a health hazard if it turns out true.
Simply put, if plastic is leeching into your juice, it's probably safe to assume it's not safe to vaporize and inhale melted plastic that has combined with other liquid and yet you have people trying to belittle others for their concerns...
I really dont think there was much mocking going on throughout this thread. However, I found it rather hypocritical that you accused individuals of mocking and then went on to equate the idea that; inhaling a vaporized liquid that eats plastic might be more of a concern than said liquid absorbing some of the plastic its stored in, to your, "formaldehyde in the frier," comment. Then again, maybe it wasnt hypocrisy... I guess it could have been hyperbole.
Ignorant of what? I think the point of these mocking questions is to gain knowledge about what is actually happening here before speculation on the subject suddenly gets promoted to fact without the proper evidence to proclaim it as such. Is that what youre talking about concerning ignorance?
Can you explain this phrase to me, ...what we know is a health hazard if it turns out true.? If something hasnt turned out to be true, how can you possibly know that its a health hazard?
Im across the pond so Im not going to recommend anyone specifically, but if you cant find a vendor by a search for glass bottles, Id do a search for laboratory equipment. If that doesnt turn up any decent results try searches for candle supplies or aroma therapy supplies.
Anyway, heres my 2¢ the matter...
If you feel its safer to store your juices in a glass container, by all means, do so. In fact, thats what I usually do with the large bottles that I purchase when I know they will be sitting around for a few months. I do this because it seems to help preserve the original color, flavor, and aroma of the juice (and hopefully it helps preserve the nicotine content too). I dont know why Ive had better luck with long-term storage in glass compared to plastic, but it seems to work pretty well for me. It could be that the plastic bottles Ive used are porous and allow gas exchange, it could be that the caps on the glass bottles make a better seal, or it could be that the amber bottles I use block light and help preserve the juice. However, thats just speculation on my part and what you wont find me doing is claiming any of those speculations as fact. I guess thats the point I wanted to add... There seems to be a lot of claims being made in this thread without the evidence to back them up. Speculation about ones personal experience should not be accepted as fact. We shouldnt accept something as fact until we have the evidence to back up the claim.
Are the pictures in this thread actually juice eating away/etching their containers? Is plastic, or some substance within the plastic, leaching into the liquid and being vaporized along with the juice? Should vaping a juice that eats away plastic bottles be more of a concern than plastic, or some substance within the plastic, leaching into the juice? I dont think we have the answers to those questions and I dont think we should talk as if we do have those answers. That being said, Im not trying to steer people away from taking precautions against the unknown. I would just prefer the information given in these forums (fora?) to be presented in an honest manner. Please differentiate between your speculation on a subject and facts for which we have evidence to back up.
/soapbox
If you feel its safer to store your juices in a glass container, by all means, do so. In fact, thats what I usually do with the large bottles that I purchase when I know they will be sitting around for a few months. I do this because it seems to help preserve the original color, flavor, and aroma of the juice (and hopefully it helps preserve the nicotine content too). I dont know why Ive had better luck with long-term storage in glass compared to plastic, but it seems to work pretty well for me. It could be that the plastic bottles Ive used are porous and allow gas exchange, it could be that the caps on the glass bottles make a better seal, or it could be that the amber bottles I use block light and help preserve the juice. However, thats just speculation on my part and what you wont find me doing is claiming any of those speculations as fact. I guess thats the point I wanted to add... There seems to be a lot of claims being made in this thread without the evidence to back them up. Speculation about ones personal experience should not be accepted as fact. We shouldnt accept something as fact until we have the evidence to back up the claim.
Are the pictures in this thread actually juice eating away/etching their containers? Is plastic, or some substance within the plastic, leaching into the liquid and being vaporized along with the juice? Should vaping a juice that eats away plastic bottles be more of a concern than plastic, or some substance within the plastic, leaching into the juice? I dont think we have the answers to those questions and I dont think we should talk as if we do have those answers. That being said, Im not trying to steer people away from taking precautions against the unknown. I would just prefer the information given in these forums (fora?) to be presented in an honest manner. Please differentiate between your speculation on a subject and facts for which we have evidence to back up.
/soapbox
Vaping juice that melts plastic and worrying about the bottles health. I would toss that juice. Flip side is that glass is obviously breakable and poses risks shipping as it could break and get on the handlers skin/eyes/etc.
I would definitely be for research done to find a viable plastic that holds up to most juices.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
I would definitely be for research done to find a viable plastic that holds up to most juices.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Youd be surprised how strong glass bottles really are. Ive never had one break on me and every vendor that Ive bought from, who bottles their juice in glass, has always wrapped the bottles in individual bubble wrap bags in addition to the bubble wrap of the actual packaging. That being said, I only use glass for long-term storage. I use 30 and 10 ml needle-tipped, plastic bottles for regular refilling.
My biggest concern with using glass bottles is spilling them.
So glad I found this thread. It makes a recent experience I had a lot clearer. Recently I ordered a sample pack from a vendor that I had heard good things about. I was told this sample pack was being phased out and the juices had been steeped approximately six months. Excitedly I opened the first bottle and to my disappointment all I could taste was a horrible plastic taste. Same with every bottle in the sample pack, I literally could not distinguish the flavors as they all tasted the same. It made me feel sick to even vape the juice.I decided to try the fresh sample they sent along and it was great, not at all the same as the sample packs. Sadly from this experience I have no desire to try this vendor again, although there juices may be great. My experience,along with this thread, I will be switching to bottles. If only we could get our vendors to follow suit.
I'm still struggling with this as my favorite flavor is pecan and put it in almost every tobacco plus some others. I guess the clincher for me is that all the food flavoring I buy comes in glass and usually amber glass so guess I'm just going to have to buy the 40+ glass bottles. geeez.
Hmm ok, page after page after page and all I can say is, my juices don't last long enough to leach, etch, melt, smelt, mold or whatever you guys want to call it, my bottles. But I do have some bottles of juice that I don't touch and they are roughly 4-6 months old. I just looked at them and they still look good. I even dumped an old blueberry I have and know its 6 months old, rinsed the bottle and it looks perfectly fine.
On the other hand I have a cinnabun that's at least 4 months old and the dropper tip is melted but the bottle is fine.
On the other hand I have a cinnabun that's at least 4 months old and the dropper tip is melted but the bottle is fine.
OMG!!! Isn't the polyfill in my cartomizers made of plastic too?!?! And the clearos I use are plastic and the tips too!! Jeez! I look at it this way....I am already poisoning myself with nicotine and drinking bottled water (yes, plastic bottles) oh and that film that gets on the inside of your windshield from your new car is coming from the PVC plastic dashboard that gives off a vapor. Get over it.
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