Recommendations?

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swedishfish

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Just a suggestion- maybe a section of the board for non-smokers that vape?

I have my own opinions on the subject. I would encourage people that don't smoke and ask questions about vaping to put something in their thread title. Those that don't approve/want to discourage can just pass over those threads. If I see it mentioned in the thread title, I do.
 

swedishfish

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I agree with your other post- the more people vaping the better for all of us. Who knows, seeing someone vape may lead a smoker to switch.

People have a right to post about whatever they want. The reason I personally respond to posts is because I view vaping as a miracle and a life saver and would love to help others who were in my situation quit smoking, and I believe this is the best way to do it.

I just avoid the non-smoker vaping threads. I don't think they're horrible, they just don't interest me. Fishing doesn't interest me either. I would just encourage anyone starting a thread to mention it in the title. Those skimming titles can pass over those posts.
 

classwife

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I agree with your other post- the more people vaping the better for all of us. Who knows, seeing someone vape may lead a smoker to switch.

People have a right to post about whatever they want. The reason I personally respond to posts is because I view vaping as a miracle and a life saver and would love to help others who were in my situation quit smoking, and I believe this is the best way to do it.

I just avoid the non-smoker vaping threads. I don't think they're horrible, they just don't interest me. Fishing doesn't interest me either. I would just encourage anyone starting a thread to mention it in the title. Those skimming titles can pass over those posts.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if people titled their posts appropriately and even..... posted them in the proper forums too .....
 

Balthezar

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classwife, and rolygate, you both have said some very wise things here. I see the coin has 2 sides, and I am digesting all of this with an open mind. ECF has taught me a lot in a short time, and it seems there is still much to learn. What you say about the new generation looking to e-cigs instead of analogs made me think twice about discouraging people from using them if they are not a smoker. 35 years ago there was nothing like this even dreamed of, but if there had been, who knows, I may never have picked up that first analog, and vaped instead.
Too bad about the separate social group not going through, only problem would have been it would still start in here, new members.

Balth
 

swedishfish

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Yes, what a good idea. That way, I'll never get my questions answered. This thread has nothing to do about wanting to start vaping or being a non smoker. I'm just asking suggestions on what to buy. The title is not misleading in any way.

It definitely wasn't misleading at all. I'm just thinking out loud- or typing out loud.:laugh:

People scan titles and there might be less negative responses if it was mentioned in the title. Maybe there wouldn't make any difference at all- it was just a thought. You certainly aren't the only one that's asked this question.
 

dotma

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Rolygate -- I just am wondering about what you said. First, i did not know ECF had an official stance about nonsmokers vaping. My question is that if we have a view that is not going along with the official ECF stance, we cannot say what our opinion is? Is this a common forum practice? I am just trying to understand. I have never been a part of a forum before and i love love love ECF and have learned so much on here and the people are fabulous. Im just having a hard time wrapping my head around not being able to state my own opinion on a subject. Thanks!
 

markfm

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If you are a non-smoker, by definition you are not hooked so particularly long battery life should not be an issue.

A single big battery sit-and-go is, I believe, even cheaper than the liberty flights riva lite kit.

Alternately, if you would prefer a cigarette form factor, and automatic, look at the vapornine nebula starter kit, $8. That gets you one auto 808 battery, a usb charger (plugs into apc usb or a phone charger), and two 16mg/ml cartomizers. Toss out the cartos, or give them to a friend who uses nicotine, and pick up a couple packs of prefilled 0 nic cartos. Vapornine sells some, and v4l has a really good selection.

I recommend not starting, but if you are an adult it is your business, the above would be my recommendation.
 

Balthezar

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As far as the juice goes, you can go to walmart and get some VG, Humco brand, and it is USP, I use it in my mixes, and mix that with some distilled water, to thin it so it doesn't clog atty's or cartos, add some no nic flavors and vape, this way there is no nic, and depending on how much you dilute it, plenty of vapor. I get my flavors at walmart also, $2 for 60ml food flavoring, make sure you don't get oil or sugar based.
 

rolygate

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...I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around not being able to state my own opinion on a subject. Thanks!

Not a problem - say what you like.

I was just trying to clarify where we stood on this, so people understand our actions, and so they are clear about what we think. In the past, we did not approve of people starting out with an e-cig, mainly because this would cause us problems in the politics and the media. Now things have changed substantially: we have a solid legal classification that means the FDA cannot ban e-cigs, and our media image has taken a U-turn for the better.

My personal opinion is that sea change in the media happened because so many news staffers smoke, and therefore many of them have become e-cig users. Connected e-cig users realise they'd better fight for their rights as everyone out there is losing money on the deal, and the losers have the power to hurt us, one way or another. There is no better person in your corner than a media employee, because they have a huge influence on what people think about any issue.

So the time is about right (actually I think we're 3 months ahead of the curve, but anyway...) for us to come straight out and say, "If someone is going to smoke, then it's better if they start with an e-cig instead, or Snus". That way they have a greatly reduced chance of harm. If everyone who intended to start smoking, instead chose to use an e-cigarette, it would be a good thing. The death rate would go down from the claimed 440,000 a year in the US to [insert your preferred figure here] per year. If the risk is 100th the risk of smoking, the eventual death rate (after about 30 years) would be 44,000 a year. If the risk is 1,000th that of smoking, the death rate will drop to 4,400 a year. If the risk is 10,000th that of smoking, the death rate would drop to 440 a year, if all smokers instead started with an e-cig. Any of those figures, even the highest, is such a huge improvement that the sickness, cost to the state, cost to health services, cost to the economy, and cost to the country would fall through the floor. So although it's almost certainly true that e-cigs will kill somebody somewhere, that needs to be compared with the ongoing ~440,000 deaths per year that will only shrink very slowly indeed by conventional means of reduction.

In fact, the fall in the deathrate (and the preliminary sickness rate) has already started to be put in motion, with 2 - 4 million e-cig users or 4%+ of the smoking population of the US having converted. In 15 - 30 years time, even if that user number stays constant, we will see a drop in the mortality. But as user numbers will rise to 6% of smokers at some time in 2012, then 10%, then at some stage 25%, we can expect the sickness and death rate to start dropping rapidly in about 20 years.

Look at it another way: it really doesn't matter how many people use an e-cigarette, it is unlikely to produce any significant mortality rate. It wouldn't even matter if everyone used one. All it can do is reduce the smoking-related death rate.

Take the Snus example. They have some fascinating stats for Sweden now. Look:
- 12% of adults smoke (the lowest in Europe).
- 20% of adults use Snus (there are some dual users, but even so it appears that more people are Snus users than smokers now).
- It looks as if the total number of tobacco users is somewhere between 25% and 30% of the population. This is quite high for highly-developed Western countries.
- Even so, they have the lowest smoking-related death rate in the developed world by a wide margin.
- They reduced their smoking death rate by 40%.

It seems that it doesn't matter how many people use a harm reduction product, the death rate falls as more people switch. In Sweden it fell through the floor, which is why it's called the Swedish Miracle. E-cigarettes have the same or better potential.

So, basically, ECF thinks the time is right to abandon the rather disingenuous and false attitude that we were forced to support before, that non-smokers should not start by using an e-cigarette. It's a simple fact that if they start with an e-cig, and are properly mentored so they stay with it, they are very likely to suffer less disease and live longer. You can cut it any way you like but you can't change that. And from the Swedish example it seems that you can't cut the number of tobacco users, only change the way they consume it. It seems a pointless exercise to try and get much below 20% for all/any users as it just won't go lower.

[edit- addition]
In fact, to be truthful, the Swedish example seems to indicate that instead of falling, tobacco use goes up. But this doesn't result in any increase in the death rate, as the alternative form of tobacco has a very low associated mortality rate. Instead, no matter how many more people use the product, the death rate still falls, as less people smoke.

Better to give people reduced-harm options so they don't die. They are going to start with it anyway, so why not point them in the right direction at the beginning.

But if you, personally, don't agree - that's what this forum is for. Say so.
 
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dotma

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Thank you for your reply, Rolygate. Those are some very interesting statistics, gave me a lot to think about. If I remember right, Japan has a very high ratio of smokers and a very low death rate also. I always kind of thought it may be their diet (and im sure that helps until they start eating like we do here in the US). Anyway, again, thank you for the reply. It certainly does make sense. Maybe i need to start thinking a little more "new school." lol
 

Balthezar

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Hey dotma :). After reading rolygate's first post here, I started thinking about it all too. Still not for it, but since young people are going to do it anyway, we might want to try to help a bit, suggest 0 nic, and let them know how to go about getting it. I would much rather see that happen, than they go with analogs. My nephew has been smoking a few years and recently had a lung collapse, may or may not have been smoke related, but he still smokes and if I can't get him to switch (getting him an eGo passthrough and accessories, for Christmas) it may happen again . I wish he had found this forum before he started, may have saved him from that experience. Anyway, I'm open to this 'new school', as you put it :), way of thinking a little more, looking at it in that light. Sorry if I babble too much, been doing too much thinking lately, and haven't slept in 30 something hrs.

Balth
 
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