The myth of second hand vape

[Diogenes]

Remember the letter or article somewhere shared about the NFL having to request no vaping at their games because their big owner/sponsor said so? I wish I could remember the details.

Diogenes,
Google 700o unsold tickets... We find the Colts on down the line. There's one tonight on FB that is doing the same. They'll be in google soon too I'm sure.
Packers with 13000 still unsold Update: 13,000 tickets still for sale for Packers playoff game - JSOnline

You know why the Packers have 13,000 tix still unsold? They suck. GO BEARS! Wait, well, next year, GO BEARS!! Really though, you can't use that as an example, because the tickets were not available during the regular season, I think, (I'm unsure how that works with teams and playoffs). They just made the playoffs several days ago. And as of Thurs morn, there was only 5500 remaining. Just googled the Colts too, and it's because of playoffs. You can't use the stance that because the stadium doesn't allow vaping, the ticket sales fall, on games that didn't have tickets on sale until recently.

 

[Uma]

The American non smokers rights old biddies got the stadiums all to themselves, minus a few die hard stealth Vapers. Owners are having to buy up seats. One guy bought 100 tickets for tonight's game, in desperation.

 

[BillyTheWild]

OK. you wanna help him out? I'll make it easy for you. He accused me of saying that there are some posters who are against having ANY study done. I didn't say that. All I have said is that more studies, especially long term studies, are needed. Now, click on my user name and select "view forum posts". This thread started on 12/30/13. Start looking from there. Find one post of mine that I ever said that there are people arguing against having ANY study done. Do that!

Can't find any where you've done that.

Thank you for the vindication – whether this is your intention or not.

But still wondering who these people (plural) were that you were referring to? Are they on this thread? This forum?

There are many indirect references and a few direct references. The OP starts this thread to prove a point. Then Diogenes raises, IMO, a valid concern which is that long term studies are lacking. The debate becomes revolved around “how much more studies you need”, “I am satisfied with what we’ve got already”, “why it is not enough with the studies done already”. Then to debate on how certain is certain. Then to “nothing is 100%”, etc. etc. Basically, the majority opinions (in this thread) are that SHV has been proven safe or safe enough already.

If you want specific posts, these 2 are the more memorable ones (bold are mine):

Post #250:

It is my belief that with the studies that HAVE been done, it is a "relatively safe" assumption to make that second hand vape poses no significant public health risk. All I ask is that second hand vape be treated the same as any other product released to the public.

Nothing in second hand vape justifies the additional scrutiny.

Post #135:

All I dont get is why do people keep asking for more? […] I mean this Diogenes person asked for proof that second hand vape is harmless, people provided articles/studies/reports/etc and yet he/she still wants more, he/she wants a solid standpoint where it says in a huge bold font saying " second hand vape is completely harmless and safe, it is tested and proven. " […]

So, now, Jman8 (and everyone who "likes" Baldr's lie), have I answered your question?

 

[Uma]

You know why the Packers have 13,000 tix still unsold? They suck. GO BEARS! Wait, well, next year, GO BEARS!! Really though, you can't use that as an example, because the tickets were not available during the regular season, I think, (I'm unsure how that works with teams and playoffs). They just made the playoffs several days ago. And as of Thurs morn, there was only 5500 remaining. Just googled the Colts too, and it's because of playoffs. You can't use the stance that because the stadium doesn't allow vaping, the ticket sales fall, on games that didn't have tickets on sale until recently.

They're usually sold out in an hour. Scalpels love their job.

 

[BillyTheWild]

Baldr, I've changed my mind. I am waiting for your apology ... I think I deserve it.

If you have the courage to apologize, I'll accept it and we'll have a together and we'll be good. How about it?

 

[Diogenes]

The American non smokers rights old biddies got the stadiums all to themselves, minus a few die hard stealth Vapers. Owners are having to buy up seats. One guy bought 100 tickets for tonight's game, in desperation.

They are trying to avoid a media blackout. The tickets appear to have just gone onsale for the Packers on Monday, 12/30. It has nothing to do with vaping, or lack thereof, in the stadium.

 

[Diogenes]

They're usually sold out in an hour. Scalpels love their job.

For which teams? Not all games sell out completely.

I'm sure they do, but scalpers care more about money than if their potential buyer is concerned with vaping or not in the stadium. Plus, the NFL had said that if the game isn't a sell-out, it would be a local TV blackout.

If the remaining tickets are because of vapers boycotting the game, please give me a link to that story.

 

[Uma]

Huh? Look, that was my hypothetical situation. You can't use it, it's mine!! My precious!!! Seriously though, and I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this, but I have no idea what you are really saying here. IRL, not all houses have 2 parents and 3 kids. Not everyone in a house like that vapes as well. As far as being social vapers, personally, I'm social, and I'm a vaper, but I'm not a social vaper, at least not at this point. And to be honest, if I met some of the people on this forum IRL, some I'd actually hang out with, others, I'd end up in lockup.

Most stats so far, don't take into account the leaders of the pack who smoke or vape. They just count lump sum & draw percentages from that. One leader of a pack is far different from a number in a lump.
Also, there are a lot of non smokers, yes, but not a lot of zealots. The zealots like to sound like all NS's are zealots like them, but they are not. They hate the smoking, but love the smoker, & are tolerant of the smoking and will defend their loved one against zealots wherever possible. They know what the smoker goes through, & actually hate the zealots for it. The whole pack hurts when one is hurt.
And the pack has a wide range of friends & family in the same boat who frequent the same place. The only reason the business owner ever takes sides with the beeatch is because city officials made it clear about complaints or else. All through the ban years we've heard the rage stories from business owners, & now we're hearing the rage over the city council threats about vaping. It's not the whiny beeatch, it's the corrupt city councils who look for excuses to receive their bonus money for banning the rights of civilians & business owners both.

 

[Uma]

For which teams? Not all games sell out completely.

I'm sure they do, but scalpers care more about money than if their potential buyer is concerned with vaping or not in the stadium. Plus, the NFL had said that if the game isn't a sell-out, it would be a local TV blackout.

If the remaining tickets are because of vapers boycotting the game, please give me a link to that story.

It's not just one of the teams having sell out problems.

 

[Diogenes]

It's not just one of the teams having sell out problems.

Very true, because the tickets just came on the market. That's the difference. Playoff games are different than regular season games because reg season tickets go on sale well before the season even starts. Playoff tickets only go on sale for non-season ticket holders only after the team makes it to the playoffs.

 

[Diogenes]

Most stats so far, don't take into account the leaders of the pack who smoke or vape. They just count lump sum & draw percentages from that. One leader of a pack is far different from a number in a lump.
Also, there are a lot of non smokers, yes, but not a lot of zealots. The zealots like to sound like all NS's are zealots like them, but they are not. They hate the smoking, but love the smoker, & are tolerant of the smoking and will defend their loved one against zealots wherever possible. They know what the smoker goes through, & actually hate the zealots for it. The whole pack hurts when one is hurt.
And the pack has a wide range of friends & family in the same boat who frequent the same place. The only reason the business owner ever takes sides with the beeatch is because city officials made it clear about complaints or else. All through the ban years we've heard the rage stories from business owners, & now we're hearing the rage over the city council threats about vaping. It's not the whiny beeatch, it's the corrupt city councils who look for excuses to receive their bonus money for banning the rights of civilians & business owners both.

My stats were strictly hypothetical. And I'm sorry, but a non-smoker has no clue what a smoker is going through when they're trying to quit, just as a non-addict hasn't the foggiest idea the struggles that addicts face when quitting whatever illicit substance they may have been using, or the daily struggle not to pick up again. And as for knowing what smokers go through because of bans and taxes and such, they don't have a clue about that either, as it doesn't effect them. Like going outside to smoke because indoor bans. NS don't have to go outside for anything other than coming and going. Normies just don't understand.

 

[Uma]

Very true, because the tickets just came on the market. That's the difference. Playoff games are different than regular season games because reg season tickets go on sale well before the season even starts. Playoff tickets only go on sale for non-season ticket holders only after the team makes it to the playoffs.

This is pretty much an historical event. Here's an update on the tickets Ticket updates for Bengals, Colts and Packers - Cincy Jungle
Usually it's just one team with ticket problems.

 

[Diogenes]

This is pretty much an historical event. Here's an update on the tickets Ticket updates for Bengals, Colts and Packers - Cincy Jungle
Usually it's just one team with ticket problems.

What does that have to do with vaping though? I have found nothing, nothing at all that says ticket sales are down because of vaping bans. Are you just trying to argue for the sake of arguing?

 

[Baldr]

Baldr, I've changed my mind. I am waiting for your apology ... I think I deserve it.

alk about a slick chameleon you are! Or is it a lying sack of you-know-what.

Based on that, you can go jump off a cliff.

 

[Diogenes]

Based on that, you can go jump off a cliff.

I'll join him, only if you show us how to do it first. Sounds good?

 

[Uma]

My stats were strictly hypothetical. And I'm sorry, but a non-smoker has no clue what a smoker is going through when they're trying to quit, just as a non-addict hasn't the foggiest idea the struggles that addicts face when quitting whatever illicit substance they may have been using, or the daily struggle not to pick up again. And as for knowing what smokers go through because of bans and taxes and such, they don't have a clue about that either, as it doesn't effect them. Like going outside to smoke because indoor bans. NS don't have to go outside for anything other than coming and going. Normies just don't understand.

I beg to differ with you.
The excess taxing hurts the FAMILY budget, & they are non smokers in the stats.
Humanity hates bullying and bans and loss of individual rights and happiness. They know they're next on a PC list.
Humanity hates seeing the smokers huddled in the rain & snow, without shelter. It's in humane no matter how you look at it unless you're narcissistic.
Humans of every walk of race, color or culture know exactly what addictions or habits are. There's not a person alive who isn't battling their own devil, be it too much tv, anger, control issues, gambling, eating, busy bodying, laziness, crudeness, sweets, salts, loving the wrong people, judge mentalist, typo making, grammar, bad decision making, porn, extremist of anything, especially religion & ideals.
They understand full well about trying to forgo a habit on somebody else's time schedule, somebody else's forced arrogance.

 

[BillyTheWild]

Based on that, you can go jump off a cliff.

Your response is no surprise. Cowards and bullies usually have the bravado to dish out insults and false accusations but not the courage to admit their mistakes when they are proved wrong. I am good with your cowardice reply. You can go on with your merry way now for all I care.

I'll have that by myself.

 

[Uma]

What does that have to do with vaping though? I have found nothing, nothing at all that says ticket sales are down because of vaping bans. Are you just trying to argue for the sake of arguing?

Take a gander at the smoking rules made this July 2013. Which places have designated areas and which ones are totally banned?

 

[Uma]

Which is all that I ask for. Let a business owner decide for himself whether or not to regulate the use of e-cigs as he see's fit. Then vapers can decide whether or not to continue to patronize his business.

The BUSINESS OWNER, not some fat politician with his hand buried deep up some lobbyist's backside making Public Health Policy that has nothing to do with the Public's Health.

Everyone here I am sure believes that vaping is safer than normal cigarette use. Not only first hand (as in our using it) but second hand (as in healthier for our loved ones and surrounding people. If you don't then I guess I question why you are vaping in the first place....

If is definitely less obnoxious than smoking.

Yet, we see Anti Tobacco money being used to discourage e-cig usage despite it's potential to save lives. BT had to give money to these "alphabet anti tobacco" trusts as punishment and they still control how that money is spent? How does that work. Universities and townships are being told that they are not entitled to this money unless the regulate e-cigs in the same manner as cigarettes.

It is refreshing when a member of the government, or other official can state the obvious and then let the chips fall where they might.

It is much better than the stupidity spouted by the representatives at the NYC council meeting which said of e-cig usage.

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....It's a duck".

One of the patently looniest things I have heard someone say.

The NYC proceeded with their ban, not based on any evidence that primary or second hand vape was harmful but rather the presence of people vaping makes enforcement of smoking bans more difficult.

Really? Do the people of New York have the inability to smell?

The underlying purpose of this thread was to show, using logic and mathematics, that second hand vape should be considered as not having any significant health risks unless studies show otherwise.

I think I have achieved that goal.

+1 well said! As are all your posts.

 

[Baldr]

Oh, look, the forums have an ignore feature. How convenient.