Why my friend quit smoking e-cigs - Do you find this also?

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John Phoenix

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My friend told me after she and her husband had smoked e-cigs for a few months they quit because it just didn't fill the feeling the cigarette did.. it was like she said that cigarettes must have something else your addicted to that e-cigs don't have - and it was that, they still craved. (besides nicotine)

Do any of you feel there is still some chemical missing that your still addicted to?

Mind you my friend and her hubby smoked different brands of cigarettes.
 

tsbrewers

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I agree, nothing will completely mimic real smoking, and there are tons of things in the real thing that are meant to make you stay smoking.

Personally I do crave the analogs still, getting a little better every day. For me it isn't so much of a REAL craving, but more on how you might crave a blizzard from dairy queen type of thing.

Brew
 

John Phoenix

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I'm trying to do Google searches on what other chemicals in tobacco is addictive besides nicotine. I figure if I can get information on these and find ways to fight these addictions, perhaps I can help my friends and get them to go back to e-cigs. (they are both fully smoking regular cigarettes again)

The google search isn't turning up much info. :-(
 
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tgcrna

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I'm trying to do Google searches on what other chemicals in tobacco is addictive besides nicotine. I figure if I can get information on these and find ways to fight these addictions, perhaps I can help my friends and get them to go back to e-cigs. (they are both fulling smoking regular cigarettes again)

The google search isn't turning up much info. :-(

I have heard (although not researched it personally) that cig.s have MAO inhibitors in them. These act as antidepressants. I would think they could cause the "feel good feeling" from smoking. It has been over 9 months since I had a cigarette, yet I still have dreams about smoking!! Yes, I miss smoking. But, I feel like the e-cigs help enough that I don't "have" to smoke.
 

John Phoenix

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I have come across this:

One method for cranking-up the nicotine power is to add sugars to the tobacco. Big Tobacco claims the purpose is to enhance flavor. However, Victor DeNoble (once a tobacco industry scientist) argues that acetaldehyde----which is produced by burning sugar----may make tobacco more addictive. Mr. DeNoble conducted studies with rats which provided evidence that acetaldehyde was extremely addictive.

The research significantly demonstrated that a compound in cigarettes besides nicotine could lead to addiction. In addition, Phillip Morris' experiments showed the addictive properties of acetaldehyde to be synergistic with nicotine: in other words, when the compounds are combined their effect is multiplied. This is also why it's suspected that nicotine replacement methods are often ineffective: for, they replace the nicotine but not the acetaldehyde.

William Farone, also a former tobacco industry scientist, speculated that the tobacco industry was concentrating on methods to enhance nicotine's addictive properties through other synergistic additives. Mr. Farone refers to GRAS----an acronym for “generally regarded as safe”----to characterize other compounds which are added to ratchet up the addiction level.

The GRAS compounds include chocolate and cocoa, which, when burned, produce theobromine. Theobromine facilitates cigarette smoke inhalation, allowing the nicotine to reach the deepest recesses of the lungs. Cocoa also smooths the smoke.

Perhaps most insidious is what's known as ammonia technology. Through the addition of ammonia, cigarette smoke's pH is altered, turning the nicotine molecules into a vapor air “freebase.” This vapor nicotine is more readily absorbed into the smoker's bloodstream and brain. The blood-brain barrier is more easily compromised, allowing for the quickest hit of nicotine.

Jeffrey Wigand (a Big Tobacco whistle-blower) stated that American cigarettes contain at least 600 chemical additives. While these additives are viewed harmless in cosmetics and food; they largely have not been tested while burned and inhaled.
Source: How Cigarettes Are Made More Addictive

I'll post different chemical information as I find it. This subject truly fascinates me.

In light of the above, I wonder is people who use cocoa flavored or sweeter flavored juice have less of a hard time with the cravings. If so, this could be an important link in understanding the effectiveness of e-cigs for some people over others.

Thanks tgcrna, I will research the MAO inhibitor angle.
 

NCC

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en.wikipeda.com said:
Nicotine, a substance frequently implicated in tobacco addiction, is not significantly addictive when administered alone. The addictive potential manifests itself after co-administration of an MAOI, which specifically causes sensitization of the locomotor response in rats, a measure of addictive potential. This may be reflected in the difficulty of smoking cessation, as tobacco contains a naturally-occurring MAOI in addition to the nicotine.
Monoamine oxidase inhibitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although I haven't seen the need myself, a fair percentage of vapers have felt the need to suppliment "the diet", so to speak, with smokeless tobacco products such as snus.

You might consider recommending this to your friends.
 

John Phoenix

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I found this also - this is where tgcrna's MAO inhibitors come in:

Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction

An ASU professor is challenging widely held conceptions about smoking, including challenging the view that nicotine is addictive.

Peter Killeen, emeritus professor of psychology in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, presented his research findings for the National Institute on Drug Abuse on the Tempe campus Wednesday afternoon.

The talk was called “...... Madness: There ain’t no such Thing as Addiction to Nicotine.”

NIDA initially invited Killeen to look into ways to improve scientific research on drug abuse, specifically nicotine addiction.

“I came up with a shocking discovery,” Killeen said. “There’s no such thing as nicotine addiction.”

“It’s time to get our heads straight,” Killeen said. “What causes the tremendously addicting power of cigarettes is the drug cocktail of nicotine,” he said, not nicotine itself.

Before he got into his findings, Killeen said he wanted to make clear that tobacco kills.

“[Tobacco] is the number one preventable cause of death in developing nations,” he said. “Half of the people who are lifelong smokers will die of smoking-related illness.”

And yet, he said, the mass addiction to cigarettes and the public knowledge of tobacco’s deadliness creates a paradox.

There is something missing in the equation, Killeen said: A sufficient answer about what causes the powerful addiction.

For years, researchers have maintained that nicotine is the cause of tobacco addiction.

But Killeen said new evidence suggests otherwise.

“A large portion of the research on tobacco studies is done on nicotine. But the research has not been very reinforcing,” Killeen said. “Nicotine in itself is not very rewarding. You can go to any drugstore and buy a packet of Nicorette chewing gum.”

But people don’t overdose on Nicorette chewing gum, he said.

“Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies — chewing gum, inhalers, patches — none of those are addictive,” he said. “Nicotine is not addictive. So what’s going on?”

The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine, Killeen said.

While nicotine affects the release of dopamine, or the “reward hormone” that affects emotions and movement, MAOIs help regulate dopamine levels, Killeen said.

“When you put together something that directly releases dopamine and another thing that helps the brain clean up excess dopamine, you’ve got a one-two punch,” he said. “It is my hypothesis that it’s a combination of nicotine with some of these other chemicals that causes the powerful addiction.”

Killeen said publicizing his research is important in moving forward with the study.

“Not everybody knows that nicotine is not addictive,” he said. “This negatively affects both the research and public opinion.”

Many people are hesitant to accept the research’s implications, but Killeen said his hypothesis is hard to deny.

“I presented this position to 20 of the world’s experts,” he said. “And though some were shocked and insulted, no one could argue that my case was untrue.”

ASU Director of Campus Health Services Allan Markus said it would take a thorough clinical trial to further prove Killeen’s hypothesis.
Source: Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction | The State Press - An independent daily serving Arizona State University

If this is true, then The E=Cig really isn't helping with the addiction that much from a relieving the physical craving aspect - unless my conjecture on the sugars and cocoa in flavoring happens to help.

NCC I am not familiar with snus but will look it up. Thanks.

Snus is a form of snuff that is used in a manner similar to American dipping tobacco, but typically does not result in the need for spitting. Snus is also unique in that it is steam-pasteurized rather than fire-cured, is not fermented and contains no added sugar.
Source: Snus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

NCC

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Looking back at your posts and the posts of others, I don't see where anyone has mentioned the mg level of the juice in question. So, there's another thing to consider ... boosting to a higher nicotine level. At least as a diagnostic of sorts, to see if it helps with cravings. I was a carton/week smoker for more than 35 years. More than a year in, and I still use 30-36mg juice. Just throwing possibilities into the ring.
 

John Phoenix

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Looking back at your posts and the posts of others, I don't see where anyone has mentioned the mg level of the juice in question. So, there's another thing to consider ... boosting to a higher nicotine level. At least as a diagnostic of sorts, to see if it helps with cravings. I was a carton/week smoker for more than 35 years. More than a year in, and I still use 30-36mg juice. Just throwing possibilities into the ring.

That's a very good point NCC - there are tons of variables. I was just reading an article that says women have a tougher time with cravings than men do and quitting smoking is harder for them.
here: Nicotine and Womens' Dependence on Smoking Tobacco

Edit:

My First kit arrives tomorrow but I ordered a bottle of 18 ml. I did get a 24 ml sample in the juice package. So, I don't really know yet.. I'll let you guys know after tomorrow.
 
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The Duke

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OaklandCA

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can't find the threads but i have read some very interesting threads up here from folks looking at various alkaloids and other tobacco based (not additives but in the actual weed) compounds which are significant in brain chemistry. from what i gather they are looking to extract those--as well as the nicotene into a super juice.B ut as far as the OP and keeping his friends offsmoke--i'd go with the nicotine level test.
I've tried to cut down from 24-26 mg with no real success. But i have reduced the level of juice--thing is when i do light up--i want to get lit up. I know from experience that a fresh carto on a fresh batt with a good tasting juice pulled hard and long can pretty well get me past the relapse edge.
I experience nicotine via PV as a much "speedier" version of cigarettes. The thing i miss most is the calming effect. I can get the buzz and beat the urge to smoke but still feel i'm a bit short in the simple pleasure dept.
 

ShannonA

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I have come across this:


Source: How Cigarettes Are Made More Addictive

I'll post different chemical information as I find it. This subject truly fascinates me.

In light of the above, I wonder is people who use cocoa flavored or sweeter flavored juice have less of a hard time with the cravings. If so, this could be an important link in understanding the effectiveness of e-cigs for some people over others.

Thanks tgcrna, I will research the MAO inhibitor angle.

The only thing about the sweeter flavored juice theory is that as far asI know they don't use sugar for sweetener.... I would think if they did it would wreak havoc on your equipment.
 

wdave

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My friend told me after she and her husband had smoked e-cigs for a few months they quit because it just didn't fill the feeling the cigarette did.. it was like she said that cigarettes must have something else your addicted to that e-cigs don't have - and it was that, they still craved. (besides nicotine)

Do any of you feel there is still some chemical missing that your still addicted to?



Mind you my friend and her hubby smoked different brands of cigarettes.

Before up cand do anything you first have to want to do it.
 

AttyPops

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For me, e-cigs aren't exactly like smoking, but they are close enough. They satisfy the habit and some of the addiction. If I remember correctly, and as other have said:
1) nic level needs to be adjusted
2) there is a period of detox (3 weeks in?) where you go through some of the heaviest withdrawal
3) you have to want to quit smoking
4) ECF is a support group of sorts (YOU ROCK ECF PEOPLE)
5) While there may be things, other than nicotine, that are addictive in tobacco, one has to remember the bad stuff about tobacco as a motivator to quit. In other words, tobacco has attractions AND repulsions.

The main thing that keeps me away from tobacco:

"this prison, this reality—whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink, And every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it; it's repulsive, isn't it?" - Agent Smith in "The Matrix"
 
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