WTA is the future

[AaronY]

There has been alot of insanity in regards to WTA. Mostly fear mongering by clueless people on forums and podcast. All I have to say is I have been vaping extra high WTA juice from Vapelicious all day and I am still alive. While I don't feel the same relaxation or completeness as smoking an anolog. I do feel something. I still vape like a research monkey but a little less. This is the first generation of WTA. I expected more but I am happy with what I feel. I have a ton of juice. Not going to give it all away to get WTA juice yet. But maybe the next generation of WTA might bring that reaction.
I am just saying I have been vaping WTA all day and I am still alive Try it if you still have urges to smoke. I am going to be posting a first look at two flavors I was given samples of at my small juice review site later tonight. It is just a sad state of affairs with the luddite type of reaction to this advance. It is the future IMHO.
Link to question and answer about WTA
From the other guy so I don't seem like a shill

 

[ohai]

Well for my part I would gladly get my Nic fix from another source than tobacco extracted Nic if I could. I want nothing more to do with the tobacco industry. The same industry that grows the tobacco for nicotine extraction...

WTA to me is a step in the wrong direction, it further endangers a fledgling industry, giving more ammunition to those that would shut us down. A little press spin here and there and now we can't claim that there is no tobacco in our juice...

You never could claim that, that ship has sailed- nicotine comes from tobacco, and eliquids are classified as a tobacco product. It isn't spin, its a fact. Trying to claim it isn't is what requires spinning.

we may as well just say I'm a smoker that's scared to use a lighter....

Well, I am an ex-smoker that's scared to use a lighter. Aren't you? Who isn't scared of cancer and emphysema?

I didn't want to quit smoking, I liked smoking. I would still smoke if smoking didn't kill you slowly and painfully.

When we talk about vaping, what we look for in vapor production, throat hit, warm vs. cool vapor, authenticity of flavors, that search for the elusive all-day vape, we are looking to achieve an experience that replicates smoking enough to make us content with not smoking. We know vaping isn't ever going to be smoking- but we chase the experience just the same, because the more satisfying we can make it, the more successful we will be at staying away from the thousands of carcinogens produced when you light the stuff on fire.

Tobacco is BAD. Everybody says so, so it must be true. Please- it's a leaf. It's the smoke that was killing you, not the leaf.

 

[cigarbabe]

I wonder if any of you naysayers have researched WTA's at all?
For me this is simply a better quality of juice no more no less.
I usually have a pv in each hand because I like vaping! I liked smoking also and wasn't looking to quit when I came upon vaping but I accidentally did indeed quit!
I never cared much about the juice it was all pretty much the same to me whether I used 24 or 0 there wasn't that much of a difference in feeling for me. I also didn't have any withdrawal symptoms either when I would just use 0 nic juice.
I used it because I liked the taste of it nothing more.
I most certainly don't see WTA as any more addictive than "regular juice" and since I've brought that up I don't see nicotine as addicting as most believe it to be either.
I certainly don't think of myself as addicted to nicotine regardless what the ANTZ and some of you may believe.
I ordered some of the WTA's from Vapelicious and was really shocked that after taking a few {3-5} hits on my device
I actually stopped vaping for at least an hour. This shocked my friend who always sees me with several devices in front of me at any one time! We were chatting on skype and he said "Whoa you stopped vaping!" {something to that effect!}
So although I don't necessarily believe that WTA have any "extra" additives in them I do think it's refined to it's essence.
For me it works brilliantly and I will be using it more for the calming effects plus I noticed
better concentration and better sleep for myself. So I use it when I wake up whenever I start vaping and as the last vape before bed.
Your results may vary.
C.B.

 

[kinabaloo]

All nicotine is from tobacco; just as WTA.

WTA is for people who no matter what flavor, voltage etc they use just feel that vaping doesn't work for them. For a majority, WTA is not needed and best forgotten. But for some it is the only thing that will be an effective alternative.

So to those who feel great with just nic, that's great - but realise that people have different needs. Nicotine is just a part of what tobacco offered.

So, if doing well on just nic, pass WTA by.
If after getting good equipment, not just a trial, cig-like thing, and trying various nic strengths and flavors, you can't avoid an analog, then maybe give WTA a try.

WTA is for 1) people who still smoke who have tried their best with just nic.

It isn;t aimed at everyone, and others who dont need it should not decry it.

So if you don't need it, dont't try it = and don't dish it for those who do.

The difference between vaping and smoking is nothing about nic or WTA; both are far removed from analogs (the alkaloids in WTA that are not nic are no more likely harmful than nic). The thing is to avoid everything else, and the combustion.

 

[AlmightyGod]

I trust Ethan (vapelicious).

It would be more favorable to Ethan's business to stick to his own knitting and leave Jerry to his.
A pissing match over WTA isn't going to help the cause...it only throws doubt into it.
It's like people arguing over who has the better mod or best juice...totally counterproductive.
The vaping community, as a rule, shows respect to the other members and their products.
It would be great if Ethan would remove his negative comments about Aroma from his website.

This is my opinion. Nothing more or less. I would like to see WTA go forward in a positive light.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Some of you people are worse than the FDA.

You are ignoring the facts about WTA & making false accusations.

If you don't want to use it...don't.

As for telling me to go smoke a cigarette instead of using WTA...

Go take a long walk off of a short pier.

WTA is a component of tobacco. Anyone making tobacco liquids using tobacco maceration or absolutes for flavoring is already selling products containing WTA (as well as other impurities).

The FDA will be regulating e-cigs as a tobacco product. This is a done deal. The fear mongering is unfounded.

 

[MikenGA]

Just to update: Last week I did a day of 'nic only', and felt quite good most of the day. The amount of ejuice I vaped through the day was about 4.5ml (24mg); 3 times more than the WTA ejuice of the preceding days (1.5ml - 18mg). So, I started another day of 'nic only'.

The 2nd day, I felt a bit antsy from the beginning, and late in the afternoon, I noticed my thoughts wandering toward analogs. A few drags of WTA juice took care of the urge pretty quick, and I vaped about .5ml the rest of the night.

Next day, I stayed with WTA juice and vaped only 1.5ml (18mg) the entire day.

It's really interesting to note that 18mg WTA juice is significantly more satisfying than 24mg 'nic only' juice (plus Ethan does a really nice job with flavor)!


*********************


I didn't begin smoking until age 27. I never felt a bit of peer pressure to smoke, and I didn't particularly like the smell of a burning analog. Why did I begin smoking?

Easy answer: I fell into a chronic state of depression (I worked at night) and couldn't shake those dark mental clouds away. I developed ulcers that hospitalized me, and took drugs to relieve the pain they caused. Because I wasn't getting any better, on a whim I decided it might be in my best interest to modify my own self image. I didn't smoke, drink or cuss, so that's where I started my behavior modification. I said, "DAMN! I'm gonna buy a bottle of DAMN wine and some DAMN smokes!"...and that's what I did.

Two weeks later, I was a cussin', smokin' wino, but my depression had lifted, the pain had gone away, I stopped taking prescriptions drugs for ulcers, and I felt DAMN GOOD!

Through the ensuing years, I smoked for 'my health'.
Strangely, each time I previously tried to quit smoking, that familiar depression reappeared. The REASON I smoked was to FEEL BETTER!

'Nic only' juice DOES seem to quell the tendency toward depression for me. I don't know how low I can take the nic level before clouds reappear, but I'll probably find out in time. I sincerely doubt I'll ever take it to ZERO nic...no desire to do that.

On the other hand, although 'nic only' juice does taste great, has a better throat hit than analogs, smells better and results in a LOT MORE VISIBLE VAPOR (which I enjoy feeling and seeing), a good ole nasty analog calmed me in ways a PV has not...until my recent samples of WTA juice.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

Yep, vaping is FINALLY a relaxing, tasty, billowing, pleasant smelling alternative to analogs, and with WTA, it's giving me a reward better than an analog.

Today, rather than worrying if (or when) I'm going to smoke again, I have been celebrating that I currently have NO DESIRE to smoke again.

I'm also celebrating that I have spent $429.72 on vaping hardware, supplies and shipping fees since September, and I'm set for several months with no further expenses. Even better, check my signature line below and PLEASE NOTICE, I have saved slightly more than I would have spent - easily could have spent since September - on analogs alone.

BEST OF ALL...I'm hangin' out with Y'ALL!

In the words of that famous actor, Charlie 'whatshisname'...I'M WINNING, and I THANK YOU ALL for helping me to finally succeed!

YAY!!

 

[rothenbj]

What is the real fear with WTA? Someone break it down in psychological terms. I mean, I get the apprehension and all...but, is there some Truth or Dare campaign out there scaring people or something?

p.s. When I wrote "Truth or Dare" I was talking about the anti drug and anti smoking campaigns Truth and D.a.r.e...I read it back as truth or dare, like

Mr M, I really believe the negativity stems from the long term war on smoking that turned into the the attack on the tobacco industry to promote the pharma industry. Most haven't lived the history where instead of pharma industry advertising everywhere we looked, it was tobacco industry advertising. They used doctors to sell cigarettes and it wasn't out of place to have ash trays in their offices or for them to light up.

Once pharma started coming up with products, they needed the disease to treat, hence the war. You take 40-50 years of escalating propaganda against the tobacco industry and their products, that happened to contain the active ingredient in the pharma industry's "cure", nicotine, and you have a lot of sneaky tricks. The fact that nicotine is starting to get negative studies doesn't surprise me. It really shouldn't surprise anyone. The pharma industry is moving toward other "life saving" products to fight the "worldwide epidemic" of the "number one cause of preventable disease and death".

There has been a lot of fear mongering (BT adds ingredients to make their product more addictive) over the years and BP has done a great job of creating fear and loathing in the minds of their target market- the smoker. The E cig and the tobacco industry's move into a much safer product line has and will continue to generate new approaches to discourage tobacco use and to get individuals to use a pharma solution.

So how does a smoker look at himself today? He/she has been banned from smoking indoor publicly in most locations, starting to see they can't smoke outdoors, can't live certain places or get jobs in certain businesses, get taxed to the extreme and vilified as a burden to society. An environment such as this creates a lot of self loathing. Which brings us back to WTA in particular and the psychology of the ex-smoker.

Those that quit cold turkey have found the way. The Carrs and Politicos of the world believe that is the best and only way to acceptance in the new world. The Quit Smoking Message Board has fanatics that insist that quitting smoking means stopping inhaling the smoke AND stopping nicotine use. Those that quit with pharma products think using tobacco products of any type is wrong, even when they continue using pharma products to stay quit. Of course those that quit by using E cigs look at adding mysterious ingredients they never heard of is wrong. I know how negative I was on smokeless tobacco until a few individuals on here got me interested and I did a lot of research. I was well educated by the anti tobacco industry that smokeless was worse than smoking. Right!

Now not everyone looks at the world as I've described above. Many, many are just happy that they were able to quit smoking and are happy for anyone that finds a way to quit. I personally feel whatever works is good enough for me. I'll never look down on someone that continues smoking. They are a brave and discriminated against lot. No need to add any more pressure.

JMHO

 

[Stubby]

I wasn't at all offended, and we all know the value of opinions.

I again would advise you to read the thread about the issue trying to run away from tobacco.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...till-using-tobacco-product-3.html#post6355618

What you are trying to do is nothing more then shadow boxing. What you are doing is showing how the venders are not at all interested in promoting the concepts of tobacco harm reduction and dealing with the misinformation and deceptions that have been going on for the last few decades. We are long past the point where the e-liquid industry can try and hide in the corner and hope no one sees you.

The venders are not doing anyone any favors by trying to run away from tobacco. The problem is not that e-liquid is not a tobacco product, which it surely is, but the misconceptions about tobacco.

 

[Bassmanspiff]

*Preface* (I have not tried a WTA juice)

Yes I agree that WTA's could be the "future of vaping." All I can really say, are they a needed additive? Will they make me eggs in the morning, read me the paper, whisper wonderful things into my ear? I'm guessing no. I applaud innovation in all forms, but will this make the vaping experience any better? What all of this really hinges on is another subset of vapers. There are some that use No-Nic juice, others that use Nic juice, and those that use both. Now we will add people who use WTA in their juice. To me atleast, it just seems like another additive that may or may not be needed at all. Will I keep vaping my favorite juice if the vendor adds WTA's to it? Yes. Will I go out of my way to add WTA's to my juice, No.

Also, adding another addictive substance to eliquid could be viewed as a black mark to the vaping community. A majority of people dont understand what vaping is to begin with and now you have to explain that they are slightly more like analogs. I vape to distance myself from what smoking is perceived to be. It seems to me that some view vaping as a "Drug delivery device" and adding something like this kindof enforces it. Granted this may have been the same thing when PV or VG was added... perhaps im screaming in the dark here. *shrug* As long as there is a product, people will try to change said product to fit their needs. If WTA's will make one person happier then good on em.

 

[James1215]

It seems like we are trying to make this more and more like an analog, this to me is a bad idea, the more we make it into a tobacco product the easier it will be for the FDA to tax it as such, it seems very counterproductive compared to what the vaping community has tried to do. I know countless people who has weened themselves down to 0 nic to get away from cigarettes, yet we have things like this trying to make it more and more like a regular cigarette.... only like 4994 more chemicals to put in guys... you will get there yet. I am not a fan of this idea, nor will I even try anything of this type. It will only be a matter of time untill some money greedy company will make eliquid from real cigarettes to try and make a profit without the slightest though of how it will affect the vast majority of us. Bad idea... count me out.

 

[John Phoenix]

For most e-cig users WTA is not needed. I know after vaping for 6 months and loving it I don't "need" any WTA to make my vape more complete. I did a lot of research into this because I have friends who used e-cigs and stopped using them because they felt something was missing. It's possible the effects of the WTA was what they were craving. It's also possible that 90 % of their cravings were psychological because they they missed the cigarette rush that comes with inhaling carbon monoxide.

I want to ask the Op.. what exactly do you feel with the WTA that's any different than a regular nicotine vape and prior to this, how long have you been vaping and what nicotine strength?

 

[Levitas]

For most e-cig users WTA is not needed. I know after vaping for 6 months and loving it I don't "need" any WTA to make my vape more complete.

I'm with John on this. Vaping has been just fine the way it is, for me personally. Though, and someone mentioned this earlier, if my favorite vendors started adding it, I would probably still vape it.

"Basically, our WTA e-juice is like any other liquid but with the added alkaloids for greater satisfaction similar to other tobacco products. The downside is the potential to be more addictive and dangerous, but for those who are choosing to continue to use conventional tobacco plus vaping, this is an alternative." Quoted from https://vapelicious.com/wta-faq/

No thanks.

 

[MaxUT]

I have not tried WTA either.

I started vaping a little more than two years ago. I still continued to smoke cigarettes because ecigs weren't all that effective for me as a substitute, because I still had cravings for a real smoke.

As time went on, I bought mods with more power than my little Titan 510, went from stock carts to dripping to modded carts to cartomizers and tried a whole lot of juices to find ones I could vape on a regular basis. I smoked fewer and fewer analogs as I enjoyed vaping more and found it difficult to do both simultaneously... (that's a joke, y'all)

Finally my wife suggested that we stop smoking cigarettes completely. I agreed, and so on July 1st of this year we quit. I still miss having a smoke sometimes, in fact last night I dreamed I was smoking a Marlboro (odd, because I was a Camel man; guess I bummed that one).

But-- if WTA had been available in June of 2009, I think I might have kicked the butts much sooner, perhaps immediately if it soothed the cravings enough. Would the two years' delay make a difference in getting cancer or not? No one can say, but the less of smoking the better.

About half or more of the people I've introduced to vaping did not stick with it; they went back to cigarettes. Nicotine alone wasn't enough for them. One person dropped analogs immediately and hasn't had one since. Others took a long time to transition to mostly vaping instead of smoking, but still held on to those last few cigs.

I think an effective WTA-containing juice is likely to be a much more effective analog replacement, helping new vapers to obtain satisfaction with the new practice and thus continuing with it through the learning curve. A good thing, in other words.

 

[Levitas]

I think an effective WTA-containing juice is likely to be a much more effective analog replacement, helping new vapers to obtain satisfaction with the new practice and thus continuing with it through the learning curve. A good thing, in other words.

I agree with this, to an extent. When I first started vaping 7 months ago, I completely ceased smoking, but it was rough. My abstinence from smoking in that first week or two was a strong mental motivation supported by a strong menthol e-liquid. Would WTA's of helped that transition to be smoother? Perhaps. But, I have no need to find out at this point, obviously.

However, there are some that cannot quit smoking even with the standard nic-extract, and for them, this might just be what they need to cease smoking and more power to it. But, if you're already vaping and it's working just fine, why add additional risk? Even the vendor is unsure of its safety, or even exactly what can be found in the full extraction of nicotine... (this might seem like a cheap shot at the vendor, rest assured, it's not. I realize that we don't even know 100% for sure if "standard" vaping is safe or not. But, for the sake of this particular conversation, I am merely talking about the safety of adding additional alkaloids with little actual testing of doing such. Aside of testing it himself along with sending samples to various people. Am I incorrect?)

"We can still assume that vaping WTA will be more dangerous than vaping nic-only e-liquid because of the presence of things like TSNAs."

"Since we’ve actually done our research on this stuff, we feel confident in releasing WTA without super fine, expensive testing as has been done by everyone who has worked on WTA and sent out samples so far."

This might be the next great thing for those who cannot successfully reduce harm with the standard nic-base. But, it may not be necessary for some and I personally do not wish to add any potential added risks. Not Fear Mongering, just my opinion. All quoted statements are from the Vendor selling WTAs.

 

[MaxUT]

But, if you're already vaping and it's working just fine, why add additional risk?

True. More ingredients equals more uncertainty about the effects the total chemical load is having on your body.

There's a couple of other things to consider: frequency of vaping and the total amount taken in. If the liquid is more satisfying then having a few drags should let you put it down for awhile. This would give your lungs and sinuses a bit of a break before the next onslaught of vapor. Until recently I have had my PV in my hand more often than not, sometimes chain vaping until I felt a heaviness in my lungs or had nausea from an excess of nicotine. I'm a little concerned about possible long-term effects from the PG, VG and flavorings.

If your liquid contained WTA but you vaped only half as much, might that be healthier?

 

[AaronY]

what exactly do you feel with the WTA that's any different than a regular nicotine vape and prior to this, how long have you been vaping and what nicotine strength?

It made me feel more satisfied and I felt a little less stress like from a drag of an analog when I used to smoke. Not as strong but a touch of it.
I have been vaping for 9 months now. I vape like a research monkey. Although I have gone down from 48 mg to around 12 mg I pretty much chain vape. The darwin battery that is supposed to last 3 days barely makes it through a day of vaping now I vape that much. The WTA juice made me vape a bit less and satisfied a bit of me that was craving for in cigs.
The WTA ejuice, I got from a friend and reviewed here it was 24 mg strength. That might be part of it. I need to try WTA in 18 or 12 mg. It is a first generation product. Happy with it but I can't wait for the next generation of them
For 11 bucks for a 12ml of extra high WTA it might be worth it to try it. If you are not like me a chain vaper that feel like they are missing something from regular ejuice, it might not be for you But it may help others that are starting or struggling to keep their habit away from analog.
I see it as a morning and occasional vape not all that I am vaping. I think it is clear that it is better then going back to analogs and the only thing preventing that before the WTA is my credit card bill I think it is debatable if the health effects of it in order not to chain vape are there. But I think if you are not totally satisfied with regular nic juice give it a try. Am I wrong?

 

[John Phoenix]

I think it is debatable if the health effects of it in order not to chain vape are there. But I think if you are not totally satisfied with regular nic juice give it a try. Am I wrong?

Thanks for the answer. No, you're not wrong. It's worth a try for folks like my friends who felt they were missing something with e-cigs. This of course with the understanding it has to be on a magnitude better than continuing to smoke tobacco cigarettes anyway.

 

[mgordon1100]

I didn't do 100% research on this WTA, but it would probably get the support from the tobacco farmers. When I started vaping, I didn't think about the ramifications to the hard working people (cigarette manufactures be damned).

 

[tricci]

Ok, this is a little off topic, but goes a long with some things people have said in this thread about the FDA, tobacco and taxation. 1.) Is making nicotine from other Nightshades (such as Tomatoes, potatoes, etc.) a viable option? This would totally separate vaping from tobacco. 2.) Does anyone know if similar alkaloids that are present in tobacco are also present in other Nightshades?