PG and VG Questions

[glycerol]

So guys, when I started vaping a month ago I read that PG breaks into Formaldehyd (cancerous) above 120 degrees Celsius, so I migrated to 100% VG. Two days ago I bumped into another thread here stating VG breaks into Acrolein (also highly cancerous) above 280 degrees Celsius.

Now, some people say the temperature of a glowing atty coil is 450+ degrees Celsius, others say 60 degrees Celsius even though a drop of VG does not evaporate on a frying pan at 60 degrees (??). Anyway, it's a naked wire that heats the hell out of the juice anyway.

Others say the coil is like 'water cooled' since there's liquid around it and that's why temperatures reach no more than 150 degrees Celsius (safe to vape VG, quesionable for PG is how a newb like me translates this).

Now, I vape 100% VG on a single-coil 2.5Ω and that's like the coldest I can get on my airy protank without losing flavour, but I'm still woried about these chemicals. I used to enjoy vaping as a healthy alternative, now it seems like it's not so healthy and that sucks because I find myself reaching for analogs...

I read all related threads in this and other forums and still can't find the answer - how hot really does the juice get when vaporised by the coil. Thanks for the help.

 

[Myrany]

Links to your sources for this information please.

 

[Orobas]

[ citation needed ]

 

[glycerol]

I can't remember links, but almost all threads are in this forum, there's also this 'pg vg peg' thread that I read, some *.pdfs I found online, etc. I'm a real noob and was actually hoping someone to give me some links and answers.. I was just wondering about the temperature of the juice when vaporised in a standard mainstream atty.

 

[Punkndrublic]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/391973-formaldehyde-e-vapor-3.html
Check this out

 

[SouthernBliss]

If those temps are right we are all pretty well done for anyway. All those PG based flavors are not created for us but are widely used in baking. And VG has been used in bakery products for many years to retain moisture and add smoothness. Last time I baked a cake the oven was set at 350 degrees which is well over the temperatures your giving for them to turn into cancer causing agents.

 

[Orobas]

Well I used this thing called GOOGLE and can't find any evidence of this being a common occurrence from what I would consider to be a reputable source.

As someone whose dissected any number of things for biology, anatomy, and zoology classes, I'm pretty confident I would notice if I were inhaling it. The stuff is harsh.

Other than that, i suppose I could ask my chemistry professor after summer break, if i remember.

 

[Orobas]

If those temps are right we are all pretty well done for anyway. All those PG based flavors are not created for us but are widely used in baking. And VG has been used in bakery products for many years to retain moisture and add smoothness. Last time I baked a cake the oven was set at 350 degrees which is well over the temperatures your giving for them to turn into cancer causing agents.

OP is using degrees Celsius, amerifriend.

 

[glycerol]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/391973-formaldehyde-e-vapor-3.html
Check this out

so this research confirms
Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes -- Goniewicz et al. -- Tobacco Control

Levels of selected toxic compounds found in the smoke from a conventional cigarette were 9-450-fold higher than levels in the vapour of an e-cigarette. ... Smoking an e-cigarette (also referred to as 'vaping') can result in exposure to carcinogenic formaldehyde comparable with that received from cigarette smoking ... Exposure to acrolein, an oxidant and respiratory irritant thought to be a major contributor to cardiovascular disease from smoking, is 15 times lower on average in e-cigarette vapour compared with cigarette smoke. The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic producte

'9 times safer' doesn't sound so good.. so i guess it's not as safe as i thought.. damn

 

[glycerol]

SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION IN EMISSION OF SELECTED CARBONYLS
AND VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS FROM ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES
COMPARED TO TOBACCO CIGARETTES

Andrzej Sobczak, Ph.D.*1,2, Leon Kosmider1,2, Maciej L. Goniewicz, Ph.D.3,4, Jakub
Knysak2, Marzena Zaciera, Ph.D.5, and Jolanta Kurek5, 1Institute of Occupational
Medicine and Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland; 2Medical University
of Silesia, Katowice, Poland;3Queen Mary University of London, UK; 4Roswell
Park Cancer Institute, Buffalo, USA; 5Institute of Occupational Medicine and
Environmental Health, Sosnowiec, Poland

Significance: Electronic cigarettes (ECs) are purported to deliver nicotine vapor
without any toxic substances generated from tobacco combustion. However, using
ECs involves heating a nicotine solution to high temperatures. This may induce
chemical reactions which result in the possible formation of carbonyl compounds
(CCs) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Many CCs and VOCs are common
tobacco-specific toxicants with proven carcinogenic and cardiotoxic properties. Aim
of the study:The aim of the study was to quantify and compare the levels of selected
CCs (formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, acetone, propanal, butanal) and VOCs
(benzene, toluene, etylobenzene and ortho-, meta-, para-xylene) in EC nicotine
refill solutions, vapors generated from ECs,and mainstream smoke from tobacco
cigarettes. Methods: Six commercially available nicotine refill solutions for ECs
(Chic Group Ltd. Poland) were examined. Three solutions contained a mixture of
propylene glycol and glycerin (Volish brand) as a solvent for nicotine, while the
other three contained only propylene glycol (Mild brand). Thirtypuffs were taken
using an automatic smoking machine. Mainstream smoke was generated from
a3R4F reference tobacco cigarette. CCs were extracted from vapor and smoke to
solid phase with 2,4-dinitrophenylhydrazine, and analyzed using HPLC/DAD. VOCs
were absorbed on activated carbon and analyzed with GC/MS. Results:Traces of
acetaldehyde were detected in all examined EC solutions(0.081±0.042 μg/mL).
Acetaldehyde was found in all EC vapors (0.153±0.116 μg/30 puffs), but at levels
more than a thousand-fold lower than in tobacco smoke. Formaldehyde and acrolein
were only found in vapors generated from glycerin-based solutions (0.116±0.022
and0.110±0.190μg/30 puffs) and in tobacco smoke (12 and 32-fold higher levels,
respectively). None of the examined VOCs were detected in the vapors, while all
were found in tobacco smoke. Conclusions: In contrast to tobacco smoke, the
vapors generated from ECs does not contain VOCs. Exposure to CCs from ECs is
significantly reduced compared to tobacco smoke and may be attributable to the
glycerin content in the nicotine refill solution.

Does this mean I should completely convert to 100% PG?

 

[SouthernBliss]

Whoops! So 842 degrees for me. Seems like it if they are that hot they would heat up the metal a bit faster than they do.

The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic producte

If it is similar to therapeutic products and less than the amount commonly found in the air we breath in our homes then it is a pretty minimal risk. It looks like riding in a car poses a bigger risk of formaldehyde than an e cig.

 

[Orobas]

It always amazes me how some people happily puff on cigarettes for years and years, but even being shown evidence that e-cigs have 9-450 times LESS of these toxic substances, they still panic.

Also look at those standard deviations.... .110 plus or minus .190... you realize a microgram is one millionth of a gram? so you're looking at a tenth of a millionth of a gram (plus or minus a fifth of a millionth of a gram margin of error) in thirty puffs?

 

[glycerol]

Little by little I started to relax. I guess I will go for pure PG from now on, will order a 250ml 24mg/ml PG base tonight. I just wonder what to do with 150+ ml of VG DIY juice I have now lol

 

[glycerol]

Also, which aromas are most harmless? I heard menthol since it's pure and organic. Some others you can rhink of that contain no sweeteners and are organic?

 

[Orobas]

Ricin is also pure and organic.

 

[SouthernBliss]

I really would not give up the vg. Looking at those numbers I suspect your body produces and you exhale more formaldehyde than that in an average breath.

 

[soba1]

Ok so here goes.......

Do u know that sugar feeds and if memory serves me right causes cancer.
Drinking one can of soda a day.......
Do u realize that the soy additives that are in all our foods does that.
People that don't even smoke have gotten lung cancer, people that have stopped smoking
for years have gotten it.
It probably has more to do with our diets, than the powers that be let on.
So if u are worried about it that much.
A diet in leafy raw veggies helps a great deal, there a lot of supplements that help fight against.
Chill, besides still less than what's in cigs

 

[TampaToker69]

I'll take my chances... We all gotta die from something. It's safer than analogs.

 

[madstabber]

I have smoked a cigarette dipped in formaldehyde and I can tell you it has an effect you would notice. If an ecig was producing formaldehyde and you were inhaling it you would be really messed up. Like having trouble walking and talking messed up.

 

[soba1]

I really would not give up the vg. Looking at those numbers I suspect your body produces and you exhale more formaldehyde than that in an average breath.

I'm sticking with vg. It doesn't dry me out.
Also u know those French fries u like from Mc Donald's, that's vegetable oil.....
Canola oil made from soy ouch.............