Safe Vape Temperatures

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KurtF

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Jan 15, 2017
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I finally found an experiment done to determine the output of formaldehyde and other carbonyls from vaping, where the scientists actually knew enough about vaping to design a realistic and useful experiment. Unlike all the other experiments I've found, THIS experiment relates the carbonyl output to the actual coil temperature, measured while wet, using infrared photography.

Formaldehyde is the principal carcinogen found in eJuice vapor, and is also in tobacco smoke. It is created when glycerol (VG) and propylene glycol (PG) are heated to the point where they partially oxidize. VG creates more of this than PG does.

Studies based on wattage are meaningless because for a given wattage, different coils produce different cooking temperatures. It's the temperature that determines the extent of oxidation of VG and PG into the unhealthy carbonyls, not the wattage alone.

The net of this experiment is that wet coil temps between 400 - 480 deg. F produce less formaldehyde than cigarette smoke (comparing 15 puffs of eJuice vs. 1 low tar cigarette). The formaldehyde production increases dramatically over 550 deg. F.

Since I read this experiment (I'm not a chemist, but I took a few chem. courses in college, enough to follow this), I've started to set my AVP with temperature control to vape at 450 deg. F. I was vaping at 550. The taste and cloud temperature is still good. Speaking of taste, they actually had regular vape users sample cloud taste at the different wattage levels used in the experiment. Here is the link to that experiment:

Correlation of volatile carbonyl yields emitted by e-cigarettes with the temperature of the heating coil and the perceived sensorial quality of the generated vapours

In particular, check out the formaldehyde outputs by wattage graph (3.2), then further down see the wet coil temperature by wattage graph (3.4.2).

In order to vape safely, based on this study, I recommend using an AVP unit with Temperature Control, set between 400 - 475 deg. F. These units let you set the max coil temperature for various coil metals of known thermal coefficients of resistance (TCR). My unit, a Presa 100W by Wismec, lets me program any value of TCR from 0 - 1000. I am currently using it with a 1.2 ohm kanthal coil, and looked up the TCR of kanthal = 2. At this low TCR value, my unit resets itself occasionally, and I have to set it back from VW mode to TCR mode again. But this does not happen with higher TCR values, like 316L Stainless with TCR = 92.

Safe vaping; or live long and puff!

-Kurt
 

KenD

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I finally found an experiment done to determine the output of formaldehyde and other carbonyls from vaping, where the scientists actually knew enough about vaping to design a realistic and useful experiment. Unlike all the other experiments I've found, THIS experiment relates the carbonyl output to the actual coil temperature, measured while wet, using infrared photography.

Formaldehyde is the principal carcinogen found in eJuice vapor, and is also in tobacco smoke. It is created when glycerol (VG) and propylene glycol (PG) are heated to the point where they partially oxidize. VG creates more of this than PG does.

Studies based on wattage are meaningless because for a given wattage, different coils produce different cooking temperatures. It's the temperature that determines the extent of oxidation of VG and PG into the unhealthy carbonyls, not the wattage alone.

The net of this experiment is that wet coil temps between 400 - 480 deg. F produce less formaldehyde than cigarette smoke (comparing 15 puffs of eJuice vs. 1 low tar cigarette). The formaldehyde production increases dramatically over 550 deg. F.

Since I read this experiment (I'm not a chemist, but I took a few chem. courses in college, enough to follow this), I've started to set my AVP with temperature control to vape at 450 deg. F. I was vaping at 550. The taste and cloud temperature is still good. Speaking of taste, they actually had regular vape users sample cloud taste at the different wattage levels used in the experiment. Here is the link to that experiment:

Correlation of volatile carbonyl yields emitted by e-cigarettes with the temperature of the heating coil and the perceived sensorial quality of the generated vapours

In particular, check out the formaldehyde outputs by wattage graph (3.2), then further down see the wet coil temperature by wattage graph (3.4.2).

In order to vape safely, based on this study, I recommend using an AVP unit with Temperature Control, set between 400 - 475 deg. F. These units let you set the max coil temperature for various coil metals of known thermal coefficients of resistance (TCR). My unit, a Presa 100W by Wismec, lets me program any value of TCR from 0 - 1000. I am currently using it with a 1.2 ohm kanthal coil, and looked up the TCR of kanthal = 2. At this low TCR value, my unit resets itself occasionally, and I have to set it back from VW mode to TCR mode again. But this does not happen with higher TCR values, like 316L Stainless with TCR = 92.

Safe vaping; or live long and puff!

-Kurt
Sorry to say, but with kanthal you're not getting any temperature control. On hohm tech devices if you dial them in correctly, yes, but not on the presa.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Eskie

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You might want to refer to this thread which also deals with aldehyde production at varying temperatures done by a different method by a different researcher. New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

The temperatures required for aldehyde production do appear similar between the two studies. The significance remains to be determined as in this study levels remained well below that found in cigarettes, but that is less clear from other studies.

If you would like to use TC with the idea of possibly protecting yourself from excessive temps, you will need to use a different wire such as SS 316L.
 

KurtF

Full Member
Jan 15, 2017
36
105
North Carolina, USA
Sorry to say, but with kanthal you're not getting any temperature control. On hohm tech devices if you dial them in correctly, yes, but not on the presa.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

Sure I am. I actually have proof of it. What makes you say no?

You might want to refer to this thread which also deals with aldehyde production at varying temperatures done by a different method by a different researcher. New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

The temperatures required for aldehyde production do appear similar between the two studies. The significance remains to be determined as in this study levels remained well below that found in cigarettes, but that is less clear from other studies.

If you would like to use TC with the idea of possibly protecting yourself from excessive temps, you will need to use a different wire such as SS 316L.

Awesome! I just finished reading the PLOS experiment you linked me. Thanks for that.

2 completely different experiments and 2 independent science teams yield very similar results, and support the same conclusions. The PLOS experiment shows 419 deg. F is the danger mark for straight VG, and 480 F for VG : PG. The IJHEH study compares the results to tobacco cigarette smoke in Table 2.
 
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Eskie

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1.3 Ohm Kanthal coil on 12 Watts - no great fear. And formaldehyde usually taste bad - what is with that?

Formaldehyde might not be noticeable, even in higher amounts. Think of when you smoked. could you taste the significantly more formaldehyde in that in comparison to your vape. I'm not suggesting vaping isn't safe, but there still might be some things produced that might be avoidable, making the harm reduction of vaping instead of smoking even safer. I do know that even with all this information coming out, my vape style has not changed, and won't until or unless someone shows me more data for a safer approach that's still satisfying.
 

Eskie

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I make my own coils and liquid, I like to get some flavor which I can easily do at temps about 350F. I'm not sure why so many people like the higher temps and wattages that would be shown in the youtube vids.

We all have our own preferences. I make my own coils and juice, and find myself always ending up between 420-440F.
 

Carl2

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I have 3 different vaporizers, a Kanger, an ELeaf and a Smok, I was surprised to learn the Kanger and the Eleaf used different resistances in there Nickel atomizers. Since I was making my own coils for a Vaperesso RBA I choose a value about half way between the two and could use the tank on either vaporizer. I later learned that cotton would just begin to burn at 400 F and tried that quite a few times when putting in new coils.
 
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