DNA40 vs SX350j
- Thread starter IanDVaypes
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It will be interesting to see how this thread pans out! Good idea though. This has plagued two or three other device-specific (supposedly) threads.
I like both btw....
I like both btw....
Can't you move it to the 'Outside' forum?
No rules and maybe we could finally express how we REALLY feel?
It's just a suggestion.... We all know that "civil manner" are just words for elaborate, sneaky, undercover attacks. It would be simpler outside...
I'm going to grab my popcorn anyway.
Cheers
Tony
No rules and maybe we could finally express how we REALLY feel?
It's just a suggestion.... We all know that "civil manner" are just words for elaborate, sneaky, undercover attacks. It would be simpler outside...
I'm going to grab my popcorn anyway.
Cheers
Tony
Can't you move it to the 'Outside' forum?
No rules and maybe we could finally express how we REALLY feel?
It's just a suggestion.... We all know that "civil manner" are just words for elaborate, sneaky, undercover attacks. It would be simpler outside...
I'm going to grab my popcorn anyway.
Cheers
Tony
This post is just wrong Tony. Get your head straight and add to a good conversation regarding to two different approaches to groundbreaking tech for vapers. I applaud both Evolve and YiHi for bringing to market the first stab at a new kind of control for a better vape experience and I don't see either as "being wrong". I know you could bring some very interesting and thought provoking insight to this conversation if you want to. So do just that.
The reality is that both manufacturers bring important advances to the vaping world and we're likely to see better products from both as a result. Regardless of which tech you might think is better at this point in time. The tech will evolve (no pun intended), and these are the two companies leading the way right now.
So let me add a constructive point of conversation, with the conviction that both companies are making positive steps towards a better mod. The one thing I think YiHi did that puts their product a little ahead of the curve for me is user upgradability. I really don't understand why Evolve decided not to do this. With a completely new method of controlling our vaping experience I just don't think there was any doubt that changes to programing at the very least would be required once these products were released. I think YiHi sets themselves apart by allowing easy upgradeability by the user as changes are made. This is a pretty big deal to me at least, and given YiHi's track record of providing upgrades to released products, this makes me much more comfortable with an SX350J purchase . I really think Evolve needs to rethink their stance on user upgradeability to allow refinements to their product. I know I would really appreciate this and would be much more likely to purchase their product as results.
I would be interested to know if others have found this an important deciding factor in the choice of Evolve vs YiHi products.
Enjoyed reading your post. I also would like to see Evolv have user upgradable capability. To answer your question it is not an important deciding factor in my choice of any device. I will try to explain why that is so for me. I think with any electronic device there are opportunities for things to occur. User upgradability is not new and not without possible adverse factors. I was a early adopter of an upgradable device (not an Evolv product) that also had a computer software program that allowed you to change features of the device from your home computer and the first device upgrade available killed the device. Only option for the out-of-warranty device was to replace the power head. Wasn't a pleasant experience. So that is my rational on why that feature is not a deciding factor for me. Would that bad experience deter me from buying a device with upgradable capabilities?
No it would not but that is just one factor, of many, that I would look at and consider. Have a great evening.
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Good post Retird, and I appreciate your point of view. It just seems that mods have gone the way of mini computers these days and to have upgradability on products that are virtually assured of needing (or at least being desirable) upgrades at some point to stay relevant and add features is a very nice feature. Even Provape has embraced this reality with software upgradeability (which I never thought I'd see), and it has been useful several times already with upgrades they have offered on the P3. There is just no doubt in my mind that being able to easily upgrade the DNA40 through the different revs they have gone through in the last 6 months would be beneficial, at least to me. Understandably this is not a deal breaker for many in their purchase decision, but for me knowing that upgrades are going to be happening on the DNA40... and most likely the only changes will be simple software changes and not hardware requiring a new device, I do find that it plays an important part in my buying decision to make sure my device remains viable for the future.
But your point is valid and many don't consider this an important feature, and likely wouldn't take the time or have the knowledge to even do what I consider a simple firmware update. But perhaps that is a difference in brand culture. YiHi customers have come to see this as a value added feature and have for the most part expected and embraced that this type of upgradeability is part of purchasing a YiHi product. And like I stated earlier, with a technology like TL I think this is more needed than previous products that were much simpler in engineering scope. There is bound to be software improvements for both YiHi and Evolve that makes upgradeability a nice feature to have.
But your point is valid and many don't consider this an important feature, and likely wouldn't take the time or have the knowledge to even do what I consider a simple firmware update. But perhaps that is a difference in brand culture. YiHi customers have come to see this as a value added feature and have for the most part expected and embraced that this type of upgradeability is part of purchasing a YiHi product. And like I stated earlier, with a technology like TL I think this is more needed than previous products that were much simpler in engineering scope. There is bound to be software improvements for both YiHi and Evolve that makes upgradeability a nice feature to have.
I ordered an sx mini yesterday. (should be here tomorrow). There were 2 reasons I chose it over the DNA. The main reason being the user upgradeability. I figured that the screen issues on the DNA (the other reason) could have been minimized with a minor firmware update. I may or may not be wrong on that, but it was definitely a big factor.
I have the 40, 30 and the new SX, using the same juice-coils at about the same settings, I seem to enjoy the SX better than the DNA's....the flavor tastes better to me.
I love my DNA40s but not being user upgradeable really is a big downside for me. The fact that I can buy a chip today, and tomorrow the same exact chip can have a new and better firmware loaded onto it is just not cool. Especially when I would think most people buying one are buying a DNA40 inside of a device that costs close to $200 or more and if they wanted to send it to Evolv to upgrade (if that's even possible) they would have to void their warranty with the manufacturer they bought it from, and then put the chip back in themselves. And if they are putting out completely new chips to fix certain things, then maybe they should just wait longer to release a chip until they get everything they intended on it.
I think my DNA40 devices are excellent, but I don't know if I will be buying another device with a DNA chip in it if I cannot upgrade myself. Pushing out patches for software and allowing the user to install it is much better than having to send my device out, wait for it to get to the destination, wait for it to get fixed, and then wait for it to come back. If I had to do the same thing every time I wanted to update my smartphone or PC/Mac, it would be ridiculous.
Other than that, I think the DNA40 is a great chip and I will continue to enjoy my Vapor Flask 2.1 and Hana Modz V4m.
I think my DNA40 devices are excellent, but I don't know if I will be buying another device with a DNA chip in it if I cannot upgrade myself. Pushing out patches for software and allowing the user to install it is much better than having to send my device out, wait for it to get to the destination, wait for it to get fixed, and then wait for it to come back. If I had to do the same thing every time I wanted to update my smartphone or PC/Mac, it would be ridiculous.
Other than that, I think the DNA40 is a great chip and I will continue to enjoy my Vapor Flask 2.1 and Hana Modz V4m.
The thing I am up in the air with about the DNA40 right now, as I also had to choose between the SX350J and the DNA40, was that there seem to be a few different revisions of the DNA40 in the wild right now...
I was ready to pull the trigger on a Vaporshark rDNA40, around the same time the SXmini M Class was released. I don't regret getting the M Class. And I would like to try the DNA40 as well, just weary not knowing exactly which revision of the DNA40 I'm going to have in my hands.
I hope this thread can stay alive, BTW... And hopefully morph into something bigger than just SX350J vs DNA40. I'd really love to see ProVape enter the game with a Temp Control device.
I was ready to pull the trigger on a Vaporshark rDNA40, around the same time the SXmini M Class was released. I don't regret getting the M Class. And I would like to try the DNA40 as well, just weary not knowing exactly which revision of the DNA40 I'm going to have in my hands.
I hope this thread can stay alive, BTW... And hopefully morph into something bigger than just SX350J vs DNA40. I'd really love to see ProVape enter the game with a Temp Control device.
Must say I REALLY like the demeanor of the posters who have posted here. I enjoyed reading the overnight posts and was struck by the comments that recognized the importance and the effort put forth to bring this new technology to the vaping public. I can only add that to discuss likes, dislikes, things we would like to see in the technology, and things we feel are not quite right (bugs if you will) with either technology is a good thing also. The firmware and design of each device brings different user options depending on the device. I think the temperature control, temperature limiting, or whatever you want to call it, is a feature common to both. As has been said over the years here in ECF vaping is subjective. I like the term "if it floats your boat then that's all that matters". Since we are still on the upgradeability subject I might just add the ability to upgrade firmware, in hindsight, would have created less stress, I think, for all involved with the release of the DNA40's. They identified the issues, corrected them, gave a valliant effort to take care of the end users, and showed the excellent customer service they have been noted for traditionally. Customer service and warranties are important to me. Whether the resolve was just firmware or a combination of firmware and hardware it was resolved. Both devices have another commonality, I think, in that both first released either have, have had, or are said to have issues (either by first hand knowledge or read or seen in reviews) that need/needed addressing.Since I don't own a SX I can only form an opinion by what others say and what experts on both technologies tell me and from the opinions expressed by YouTube reviewers. Should there be a difference in opinion between all these folks, evidenced by what they say, then that should and hopefully will be discussed here. This will be beneficial, I think, for those who may stop by here and read.
If I might just add one more thought in this post:
Traditionally here in ECF there has been a lot of XXX vs, YYY opinions, whether it be variable voltage vs, variable wattage, variable wattage vs, temperature limiting, regulate devices vs. mechanical devices, or XXX mod vs, YYY mod. Openly and calmly discussing, I think, is a good thing but if it turns hateful and divisive (hostility between people) no one benefits from the hostility. Just my observation guys.
If I might just add one more thought in this post:
Traditionally here in ECF there has been a lot of XXX vs, YYY opinions, whether it be variable voltage vs, variable wattage, variable wattage vs, temperature limiting, regulate devices vs. mechanical devices, or XXX mod vs, YYY mod. Openly and calmly discussing, I think, is a good thing but if it turns hateful and divisive (hostility between people) no one benefits from the hostility. Just my observation guys.
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Lol. It's all in the attitude. I'm done discussing the dna and I don't have hands on experience from the sx so I'm surely won't involve myself into this.
Evolv only lost me because the general opinion of a few representatives was that the chip was flawless and any problem was always user error or builder error. Sending a chip back to the US living in Europe was just another negative factor to add. I'm glad my vendor made a deal with the company and started exchanging the board's directly but hadn't I pushed that with both the vendor and Evolv directly, I would probably be still waiting for a replacement today.
Presently I can say that I'm happy with my mod and dna 40. No weird stuff happening, always working, always a pleasure. I notice a small resistance creep along two or three days (from 0.32 to 0.34 for example) but I know that's the positive pin of the 510 connector starting to oxidize with time. All I need to do is to wipe down the connections with isopropyl alcohol and it's back at 0.32.
One should clean the connection daily but I'm lazy so every 3 days is fine by me.
All in all, very happy with my dna and surely will be happy once I have a sx350j chip in my hands (the yihi mod just seems too bulky compared to the mods I like).
My two euro cents
Tony
I am not interested in upgradeable chip.
With a cigarette you light it and smoke.
I've been using regulated mods for a few years but have enough experience with mech tubes and still use them.
I have three RMA'ed dna40 mods that I use daily, along with a few regulated mods and I really don't want to to fuss with tech stuff.
Im also an impulse buyer which is why I have an SX tp mod but haven't even taken it out of the box. LOL
Now that I'm using titanium wire, 24G, which is durable and consistent I'm just set for business if you know what I mean. It's pretty much point and shoot.
With a cigarette you light it and smoke.
I've been using regulated mods for a few years but have enough experience with mech tubes and still use them.
I have three RMA'ed dna40 mods that I use daily, along with a few regulated mods and I really don't want to to fuss with tech stuff.
Im also an impulse buyer which is why I have an SX tp mod but haven't even taken it out of the box. LOL
Now that I'm using titanium wire, 24G, which is durable and consistent I'm just set for business if you know what I mean. It's pretty much point and shoot.
The YiHi updates have been for Windows only. Aside from concern about firmware updates bricking chips it is doubtful whether I would go through the expense/hassle of putting a Windows partition on my Mac and wrestling with security for an OS I would not use for anything else. I purposely purchased my SX Mini from a dealer with super CS who will likely do any necessary updates for a reasonable fee or free.
The only things I don't care for about my SX Mini that an update could potentially correct is lack of the temperature consistency I prefer once I build much higher than their recommended .06 oHms and less than stellar battery life. I would be shocked if YiHi would correct either issue with an update. I'm perfectly content with my two rDNA40s exactly as they are so updates aren't an issue.
That said, I think most people consider user firmware updates as value-added so it would make sense for Evolv to offer it if they can do so without slowing down their development cycle or making it easier for China to clone their chips.
The only things I don't care for about my SX Mini that an update could potentially correct is lack of the temperature consistency I prefer once I build much higher than their recommended .06 oHms and less than stellar battery life. I would be shocked if YiHi would correct either issue with an update. I'm perfectly content with my two rDNA40s exactly as they are so updates aren't an issue.
That said, I think most people consider user firmware updates as value-added so it would make sense for Evolv to offer it if they can do so without slowing down their development cycle or making it easier for China to clone their chips.
You can use wine to emulate the libraries and flash your mod from Linux or you can use virtual box, install windows and flash from there. You can delete the virtualization afterwards if you're concerned about it.
Regarding China cloning... They will clone it regardless of firmware update capability. Heck, it's not that hard to do if you know what you're doing. In this particular case, I even have doubts you would need access to the source code to see what the unit is doing and copy it. These aren't space rocket control boards
Tony
Here's how I see it:
Evolv releases TC with nickel (resistance temp detector) -- a novel idea no one thought about applying to an e-cig. Evolv eventually patented the tech. The DNA-40 more or less works, but has quirks. Some attys don't like it (KF4), while others work OK. Nickel is hard to build and a lot of people complained about that. Then you had the screen and battery indicator issues to throw another wrench into things. Overall, while unique and innovative, there are mixed feelings about the DNA-40. Some love it, some hate it.
Yihi gets involved and copies Evolv's idea. They bring Joules to the table (no doubt to get around Evolv's patents). The Joules don't actually do anything, but the addition of a measurement of work tricks a lot of non-specialists into thinking it has something to do with temperature (it doesn't). In reality Yihi is doing exactly the same thing the DNA-40 does (a nickel RTD). The Joules reading is really just another way of saying "Watts" for all practical purposes. After all 1 watt = 1 J/s.
But all of the patent issues aside, Yihi did improve on some things. They didn't do refinement (they lock the resistance, which I heard Evolv is now doing). There are no screen issues or wonkiness that I am aware of. They allow the user to upgrade the firmware if need be. The build quality of the device is top notch. They have a gravity sensor for instant screen orientation, etc.
Overall, there is no right or wrong choice between the two. It comes down to personal preference. I think the competition is good, but I will be sitting with a bag of popcorn if Evolv decides to take legal action. I have no idea if they will or wont or even if the patent was finalized, but it will be fun times on the forums if they do go forward with legal action.
Evolv releases TC with nickel (resistance temp detector) -- a novel idea no one thought about applying to an e-cig. Evolv eventually patented the tech. The DNA-40 more or less works, but has quirks. Some attys don't like it (KF4), while others work OK. Nickel is hard to build and a lot of people complained about that. Then you had the screen and battery indicator issues to throw another wrench into things. Overall, while unique and innovative, there are mixed feelings about the DNA-40. Some love it, some hate it.
Yihi gets involved and copies Evolv's idea. They bring Joules to the table (no doubt to get around Evolv's patents). The Joules don't actually do anything, but the addition of a measurement of work tricks a lot of non-specialists into thinking it has something to do with temperature (it doesn't). In reality Yihi is doing exactly the same thing the DNA-40 does (a nickel RTD). The Joules reading is really just another way of saying "Watts" for all practical purposes. After all 1 watt = 1 J/s.
But all of the patent issues aside, Yihi did improve on some things. They didn't do refinement (they lock the resistance, which I heard Evolv is now doing). There are no screen issues or wonkiness that I am aware of. They allow the user to upgrade the firmware if need be. The build quality of the device is top notch. They have a gravity sensor for instant screen orientation, etc.
Overall, there is no right or wrong choice between the two. It comes down to personal preference. I think the competition is good, but I will be sitting with a bag of popcorn if Evolv decides to take legal action. I have no idea if they will or wont or even if the patent was finalized, but it will be fun times on the forums if they do go forward with legal action.
"Liked" your post as you mentioned a multitude of subjects. (device design, operational features, differing business models, legal matters, and etc.)
On the point of the DNA now including the "atty lock feature" it is my understanding that that feature is an option that can be toggled to use if desired. I like the refinement function personally but having the option is nice I think.
As far as "build quality" it is a feature I like to research when looking at a mod. I note that Evolv doesn't market devices where as Yihi does. The Mini looks like a nice package. Both companies produce circuit boards available for purchase for inclusion in a device.
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