First-time making juice 64 5 ml bottles

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

Ahoy there ECF,

So under some advice from several people here, and doing a bit of my own research elsewhere, I decided to try all of my new flavors from TFA in 5 mL bottles. I got 26 flavors overall, and 32 different mixtures overall, 2 of each, a 0mg, and 3mg for everything.


*** Testing samples ***

01. Bavarian Cream
02. Ginger Ale
03. Peach (Juicy)
04. Earl Grey Tea
05. Graham Cracker Clear
06. Organic Strawberry
07. Strawberry (Ripe)
08. Watermelon

09. Cheesecake Graham Crust
10. Key Lime
11. Fruit Circles With Milk
12. Dragonfruit
13. Energy Drink
14. Peanut Butter
15. Pomegranate
16. Grape juice

17. Green Apple
18. Pear
19. Sweet Cream
20. Banana Nut Bread
21. RY4 Double
22. Chai Tea
23. Vanilla Swirl
24. Apple

25. Hibiscus
26. Strawberry
*** Mixtures ***
27. Peanut Butter & Cheesecake Graham Crust - 50%/50%
28. Cheesecake Graham Crust & Key Lime - 50%/50%
29. Key Lime & Energy Drink - 50%/50%
30. Banana Nut Bread & Bavarian Cream - 50%/50%
31. Fruit Circles With Milk & Graham Cracker Clear 0.5ml/10 drops
32. Fruit Circles With Milk & Banana Nut Bread 50%/50%

Each number comes with 2 mixtures:

The first of which is a basic 20%/80% flavor/VG ratio. So 1 ml flavor, and 4 ml VG acquired from Essentialdepot.

The second in each set, is where it got difficult. Since I was going for 3 mg/ml and I have 60 mg/ml nic in VG, that comes out to be *0.25* ml of nic fluid. My 2 mL Pyrex Grade A reusable measuring pipettes were decidedly up to the task though. Then I'd do 0.75 ml of VG in another pipette, then my 1 mL of flavor in another, then I could use my syringe to do the remaining 3 ml.

Looking back, I could have diluted the nic, I might in the future, but for right now, I do my best to handle nic fluid as little as humanly possible. I had to make them one set of 8 at a time due to the pipettes needing to be soaked in soapy water, rinsed, alcohol bath, rinsed, soapy water again, rinsed, and then air dried, after each use. I got much better with using them by the end of it, but starting off was a little difficult despite having a pump for them as well.

All in all, it was a learning experience, and I've already set a date for 4 weeks from tuesday for all of my vaping friends across San Diego to bring all of their mods and toys so we can all vape, sample, and possibly review each of the flavors. If we go that route, I'll be posting the findings as well. I decided to number them, instead of writing out each of the flavors so that my friend's won't not what to expect until -after- they try it so each bottle is labed with 2 values, a number (large) and either a 0 or a 3, for nic.

As far as steeping, I have them all (all except 4 that just couldn't fit) in shipping box I got one of my Anker 13k battery packs in. There's no movement in the box, so I figure I'll just shake the box once or twice a day by rotating it several times to make everything mix well with the possibility of purchasing an ultra sonic cleaner this weekend.

My total time was somewhere around 6 hours total.

Now the hardest part... waiting!

 

[sedition]

I'm doing this myself at the moment, but I'm not bothering with steeping, just shake and vape. Despite many people saying that TFA flavors by themselves aren't really worth vaping, there are quite a few gems among them. I could happily vape Bavarian Cream all day on it's own.

 

[Hoosier]

Listen to yourself before listening to others....

Experimental small bottles, they are everywhere. Found some under my chair looking for a tool for my rebuildable tonight...

 

[dannyv45]

Lots of flavors at one time can lead to taste bud overload. So go easy and when they all start tasting the same or you taste nothing at all don't think you did something wrong. Just put them away and go back to them after you gave your taste buds a rest.

 

[Capt.shay]

I agree with Danny on the tasting, trying more than a couple of flavors at a time will lead to a severe case of vapors tongue. Try them a couple at a time, when I have a tasting I put pieces of pineapple out for people to cleanse their pallet with between taste.

Now that you have seen how much work it is measuring by volume, you may want consider measuring by volume. Buy a scale and life gets much easier.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I agree with Danny on the tasting, trying more than a couple of flavors at a time will lead to a severe case of vapors tongue. Try them a couple at a time, when I have a tasting I put pieces of pineapple out for people to cleanse their pallet with between taste.

Now that you have seen how much work it is measuring by volume, you may want consider measuring by volume. Buy a scale and life gets much easier.

I'll have to try that next time. I mean once I got the knack of using pipettes ( the last time I took a chemistry class was many many years ago...) it became rather easy. And fast. I'd heard about using weight, But given that each flavor could potentially have a different weight, wouldn't that be an issue? Or is the difference negligible. I guess even by volume each flavor has it's own strength.

 

[South Coast Vaper]

Someone has clearly been having fun. I love mixing up new flavours and a wise choice in my opinion to mix up small samples to see what each flavour brings to the table.
Enjoy buddy.

 

[Capt.shay]

I'll have to try that next time. I mean once I got the knack of using pipettes ( the last time I took a chemistry class was many many years ago...) it became rather easy. And fast. I'd heard about using weight, But given that each flavor could potentially have a different weight, wouldn't that be an issue? Or is the difference negligible. I guess even by volume each flavor has it's own strength.

I meant to say measure by mass but you seem to figure out what I meant

I picked up a scale and in a week I had put away all my syringes. It really is that much easier in my opinion. No trying to suck vg through a needle tip, no washing syringes, I just find it so much easier and more accurate. And yes, the difference in most flavorings is in the 100th of a gram area so you don't really have to figure that in as much.

Here is the thread that got me hooked on weight based mixing: Mixing by Weight - Are You ?? | Page 9 | E-Cigarette Forum

Best of luck, take good notes, have fun!

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I meant to say measure by mass but you seem to figure out what I meant

I picked up a scale and in a week I had put away all my syringes. It really is that much easier in my opinion. No trying to suck vg through a needle tip, no washing syringes, I just find it so much easier and more accurate. And yes, the difference in most flavorings is in the 100th of a gram area so you don't really have to figure that in as much.

Here is the thread that got me hooked on weight based mixing: Mixing by Weight - Are You ?? | Page 9 | E-Cigarette Forum

Best of luck, take good notes, have fun!

I've certainly seen several of the posts about using scales to weigh ingredients, I just really don't like the lack of precision(my tolerance is ±0.006 mL with my 2 mL pipettes, there's probably far more variance in the solution itself). In relations to the time it took me to do this, it took me several hours because they are all different, and could only make them in batches of 8 at a time due to available equipment. They were also incredibly small. But from what I've seen, when you make large quantities, it seems to be a bit less accurate overall in the proportions and measurements, isn't that we use volume instead of mass in chemistry afterall?

Now as far as speed goes, for my 30 mL bottles of juice? The story is -quite- a bit different. For example, it took me between 6 and 7 minutes total time with cleanup, to make 4 x 30 mL bottles of mountain dew.

Call me a stickler for precision, and / or maybe not in a hurry, but then again, I consider that time pretty dang fast.

 

[Capt.shay]

I've certainly seen several of the posts about using scales to weigh ingredients, I just really don't like the lack of accuracy. In relations to the time it took me to do this, it took me several hours because they are all different, and could only make them in batches of 8 at a time due to available equipment. They were also incredibly small. But from what I've seen, when you make large quantities, it seems to be a bit less accurate overall in the proportions and measurements, isn't that we use volume instead of mass in chemistry afterall?

Now as far as speed goes, for my 30 mL bottles of juice? The story is -quite- a bit different. For example, it took me between 6 and 7 minutes total time with cleanup, to make 4 x 30 mL bottles of mountain dew.

Call me a stickler for precision, and / or maybe not in a hurry, but I mean, I consider that time pretty dang fast.

I'm sorry but you seem to be misinformed, take a look at the thread I posted. That's why I posted it. Measuring by weight (we use scales accurate to 100th of a gram) is THE most accurate way. In chemistry, when being accurate is important, we use scales. That is the way we did it in the college courses I took. But hey, if you can make four 30ml bottles using pipettes and syringes and the least accurate of all beakers and then get them all cleaned up in 6-7 minutes then you should probably keep doing it the way you have been doing it.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I'm sorry but you seem to be misinformed, take a look at the thread I posted. That's why I posted it. Measuring by weight (we use scales accurate to 100th of a gram) is THE most accurate way. In chemistry, when being accurate is important, we use scales. That is the way we did it in the college courses I took. But hey, if you can make four 30ml bottles using pipettes and syringes and the least accurate of all beakers and then get them all cleaned up in 6-7 minutes then you should probably keep doing it the way you have been doing it.

That would make your tolerance for error using those scales to be 10 milligrams, (10 mg x 100 = 1 gram yes?) my tolerances for my tools are +/- 0.006 milliliters. There's no more accurate way of measuring liquids without getting into the microliter and nanoliter electronic computer controlled pipetting systems.

 

[dannyv45]

I'll have to try that next time. I mean once I got the knack of using pipettes ( the last time I took a chemistry class was many many years ago...) it became rather easy. And fast. I'd heard about using weight, But given that each flavor could potentially have a different weight, wouldn't that be an issue? Or is the difference negligible. I guess even by volume each flavor has it's own strength.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Capt.shay measuring by mass via a scale is more accurate then by volume using beakers, pipettes and syringes but to each his own. If it's easier and comes out the way you want it to then either way works. I myself use syringes and it works for me. What is important is good results and having fun with it. So in this case your both right so it's hardly worth debating. What it all boils down to is what your more comfortable working with.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

Correction: My tolerance for my 2 mL pipettes is +/- 0.020 mL Still. other things also affect weight, scales need to be constantly calibrated, etc. Now measuring by -mass- would be good. But most of the scales I've seen people using, (including my own!) doesn't come anywhere -close- to the precision of these instruments.

 

[sc12]

So under some advice from several people here, and doing a bit of my own research elsewhere, I decided to try all of my new flavors from TFA in 5 mL bottles. I got 26 flavors overall, and 32 different mixtures overall, 2 of each, a 0mg, and 3mg for everything.

Wow! You're not messin' around.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Capt.shay measuring by mass via a scale is more accurate then by volume using beakers, pipettes and syringes but to each his own. If it's easier and comes out the way you want it to then either way works. I myself use syringes and it works for me. What is important is good results and having fun with it. So in this case your both right so it's hardly worth debating. What it all boils down to is what your more comfortable working with.

It really all boils down to the caliber of measuring equipment you're using. If you're using cheap scales with huge tolerances, (and I'm not saying anyone here does, merely an example), it won't be as good as using cheap syringes. Cheap high quality jewelry scales have become plentiful in the last few years due to better manufacturing etc. I'll even go so far as to agree that they are probably an order of magnitude more precise than disposable plastic syringes.

I'm not using those. ( granted, I -was- but only because I was waiting for my 25 mL pipette to come in the mail ) I'm using something a bit more precise. My tolerances are set to laboratory grade standards. Granted, mine are grade B ( well my 2 mL's are grade B, pretty sure the rest of mine are A, I'll have to check) but each one is individually marked, and calibrated to ASTM standards at production. Our instruments aren't even really in the same league here.

If you'd like to find out more, feel free to have a look at the standards at which adhere to located here : ASTM E1293 - 02(2012) Standard Specification for Glass Measuring Pipets

 

[Alien Traveler]

It really all boils down to the caliber of measuring equipment you're using. If you're using cheap scales with huge tolerances, (and I'm not saying anyone here does, merely an example), it won't be as good as using cheap syringes. Cheap high quality jewelry scales have become plentiful in the last few years due to better manufacturing etc. I'll even go so far as to agree that they are probably an order of magnitude more precise than disposable plastic syringes.

I'm not using those. ( granted, I -was- but only because I was waiting for my 25 mL pipette to come in the mail ) I'm using something a bit more precise. My tolerances are set to laboratory grade standards. Granted, mine are grade B ( well my 2 mL's are grade B, pretty sure the rest of mine are A, I'll have to check) but each one is individually marked, and calibrated to ASTM standards at production. Our instruments aren't even really in the same league here.

If you'd like to find out more, feel free to have a look at the standards at which adhere to located here : ASTM E1293 - 02(2012) Standard Specification for Glass Measuring Pipets

I agree that for thin liquids measuring transfer pipettes could be as good as scales. However for thick liquids (like VG) they are a terrible choice. Too much liquid will stay on pipette's walls for a long time. I prefer syringes, and I do not need high precision in measuring VG (if I measure 50 ml of VG and have 1 ml error it will have no effect on final result). I do not make complex juices, so for me scales are useless.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I agree that for thin liquids measuring transfer pipettes could be as good as scales. However for thick liquids (like VG) they are a terrible choice. Too much liquid will stay on pipette's walls for a long time. I prefer syringes, and I do not need high precision in measuring VG (if I measure 50 ml of VG and have 1 ml error it will have no effect on final result). I do not make complex juices, so for me scales are useless.

Yeah. I feel you there. For the smaller bottles it was incredibly useful. For the larger ones, I have wide tip variants that get rid of that whole pesky -stupid-fscking-VG-taking-2-and-half-freakin-minutes-to-come-out- nonsense. My 25 mL is wide tip. Only about 15-20 seconds to transfer. It's quick. And leaves a negligible amount of VG in the pipette, it might depend on the glass?

 

[sedition]

I switched to scales a month ago, and won't be going back. I'm doing what you're doing with testing flavors, making up a new 15ml batch of a new flavor each morning, which lasts me the day. I'm about to go make a new bottle in a few minutes, it goes something like this:

• Put the empty juice bottle on the scales.
• TARE
• Measure VG straight from the 1L bottle till I hit 15.89 grams. If I go over, I tip a bit back.
• TARE
• Measure 100% VG NIC from the 30ml plastic bottle till I hit 1.12 grams. 1 drop from this bottle is is about 0.03 - 0.04 grams or so, so it's pretty hard to go over.
• TARE
• Measure 1.5ml of the flavor I'm trying, using the TFA plastic pipettes. 1 drop from this pipette is about 0.01 grams, so again, hard to go over.
• Mix it up using the Jigsaw, and vape.

So aside from throwing away the single use plastic pipette, there's nothing else to clean up. Normally I'd have to clean at least two syringes and a water glass. And aside from the flavoring, everything is 100% VG - it doesn't give me any problems. That's all done on a cheap chinese $25 scale similar to what you'd get on Fasttech.

 

[Paul Siorai Waldorf]

I switched to scales a month ago, and won't be going back. I'm doing what you're doing with testing flavors, making up a new 15ml batch of a new flavor each morning, which lasts me the day. I'm about to go make a new bottle in a few minutes, it goes something like this:

• Put the empty juice bottle on the scales.
• TARE
• Measure VG straight from the 1L bottle till I hit 15.89 grams. If I go over, I tip a bit back.
• TARE
• Measure 100% VG NIC from the 30ml plastic bottle till I hit 1.12 grams. 1 drop from this bottle is is about 0.03 - 0.04 grams or so, so it's pretty hard to go over.
• TARE
• Measure 1.5ml of the flavor I'm trying, using the TFA plastic pipettes. 1 drop from this pipette is about 0.01 grams, so again, hard to go over.
• Mix it up using the Jigsaw, and vape.

So aside from throwing away the single use plastic pipette, there's nothing else to clean up. Normally I'd have to clean at least two syringes and a water glass. And aside from the flavoring, everything is 100% VG - it doesn't give me any problems. That's all done on a cheap chinese $25 scale similar to what you'd get on Fasttech.

I'm most certainly familiar with the process, and I understand that some people like it, but my samples are one third the size of what your using.

One of the other important considerations I had while deciding what method to use is waste. There are no disposable pieces in what I do. So there's virtually no waste, (save for some paper towels and/or squares of toilet paper + gloves), so it tends to be a bit more 'green' as they say. The costs of using disposable things isn't much, I'll grant you, but it does add up over time.

In total. I only use 3 tools + the bottle itself. A 25 mL wide-bore pipette, a 2 mL pipette, and a 10 mL pipette. Plus of course the bottle. Clean up is as simple as tossing it into soapy water after I'm done using it, then, once I'm completely done, pulling it out, rinse, pull alcohol through it, rinse, air dry. 30 or so seconds each tool.