Addicted to nicotine or tech? E-cigs an accessory, not a solution

[AndriaD]

So, when I quit smoking cold turkey, I was a non-smoker, yes? I only ask cause some think if I smoke again (which I did), that I didn't really quit. Yet, my not smoking for a decade would strongly suggest otherwise.

I agree. For 10 yrs, you were a non-smoker -- if you hadn't made the choice to go back to smoking, you'd have remained that, but no one can know what one's future choices will or may be -- so while the first choice was in effect, any later ones were unknowable, and therefore irrelevant.

Before vaping, I could not smoke non-abusively. I tried several times, and never succeeded. With vaping in the picture, I find it impossible to smoke abusively, but also not really trying any more to smoke abusively, since moderation works oh so well.

When I had to briefly had to return to smoking after my illness (in order to make the godawful cravings go away, which vaping wasn't touching!), I didn't mean it to become abusive -- but by the 3rd day of my return, I had smoked an entire pk by 6pm -- and I didn't get out of bed until 11am. I was appalled, and it showed me that, to me, cigarettes are just like alcohol -- even one, and I'm right back where I was within a VERY short time.

And even if you smoked abusively again, by choice, then you would have choice to return to vaping and experience cessation again. I'm not sure why that is difficult to understand.

It wasn't choice that got me back to abusive smoking -- it was 39 years of ADDICTION -- and I was still vaping! Yes, I did choose to return to full-time vaping and zero smoking -- but it took me a month to get there. And even after I'd been VERY HAPPILY smoke-free for 10 days, the godawful cravings came back, just as bad -- and the only thing that made them go away was WTA. Without WTA, I'd have been back to smoking AGAIN. Sure, a choice -- to NOT suffer, instead of suffer.

I agree that vaping is the cure for smoking, if one wants it to be that. For a majority of us, who smoked for decades, any smoking has the potential for the habit to get its hooks back into us, just as deeply as they ever were.

Andria

 

[hashtag]

When I had to briefly had to return to smoking after my illness (in order to make the godawful cravings go away, which vaping wasn't touching!), I didn't mean it to become abusive -- but by the 3rd day of my return, I had smoked an entire pk by 6pm -- and I didn't get out of bed until 11am. I was appalled, and it showed me that, to me, cigarettes are just like alcohol -- even one, and I'm right back where I was within a VERY short time.

Andria

Yeah I stay away from even a single cig because I know it turns on that addiction switch in my brain and I'll be smoking full on again in no time. Once you have had the habit your brain doesn't know how to casually smoke, it only knows how to smoke like you always did.

 

[Jman8]

I agree. For 10 yrs, you were a non-smoker -- if you hadn't made the choice to go back to smoking, you'd have remained that, but no one can know what one's future choices will or may be -- so while the first choice was in effect, any later ones were unknowable, and therefore irrelevant.

We agree!

When I had to briefly had to return to smoking after my illness (in order to make the godawful cravings go away, which vaping wasn't touching!), I didn't mean it to become abusive -- but by the 3rd day of my return, I had smoked an entire pk by 6pm -- and I didn't get out of bed until 11am. I was appalled, and it showed me that, to me, cigarettes are just like alcohol -- even one, and I'm right back where I was within a VERY short time.

Alcohol doesn't have a comparison like smoking does with vaping. I also don't think this is fair comparison for moderate smoking. You would have to actively stop vaping to become abusive smoker. When I speak about dual using / moderate smoking, it is in context of full time vaping. If I were to actively stop vaping, I doubt I could remain a moderate smoker. And if I truly didn't want to return to full time (or abusive) smoking, I would strongly consider cold turkey as that has worked for me (more than once). Yet, I currently see no indication that vaping products will be 100% eradicated from the planet. And thus far, I have seen very little indication that vaping products will be 'mostly eliminated.'

Anyway, in my first year of vaping, I recall having a cold (which I think is the last cold I've had) and during that, vaping was extremely sensitive to my throat. So, for a good week (maybe two), I couldn't vape and did try periodically, but each time it was harsh. During that week, I was mostly smoking, but because the cold got bad enough, there was a 2 day period where I was unable to do any smoking (and vaping was off the table). But when I started to 'come back,' smoking came first, and then when fully back, vaping was on the table, and moderate smoking was back in the picture.

But, I wouldn't use that experience (within a week of an illness) to be good comparison for how one would act with smoking / vaping, if both are allowed to be fully used.

I actually find it very hard to believe that a person who has ceased smoking via vaping could go back to full time smoking while continue to vape (even a little bit). I'd want to observe that and see what is occurring, but alas, I probably never will, and so sure, I'll take your word for it, that you are part of a majority that if you had just one smoke today, you'd be back to abusive smoking within a matter of days. But, in general, I find it very hard to believe and think instead, one would have to actively give up on vaping for that to occur.

It wasn't choice that got me back to abusive smoking -- it was 39 years of ADDICTION -- and I was still vaping! Yes, I did choose to return to full-time vaping and zero smoking -- but it took me a month to get there. And even after I'd been VERY HAPPILY smoke-free for 10 days, the godawful cravings came back, just as bad -- and the only thing that made them go away was WTA. Without WTA, I'd have been back to smoking AGAIN. Sure, a choice -- to NOT suffer, instead of suffer.

I agree that vaping is the cure for smoking, if one wants it to be that. For a majority of us, who smoked for decades, any smoking has the potential for the habit to get its hooks back into us, just as deeply as they ever were.

Andria

You speak the first sentence like I'm one that doesn't get or hasn't experienced this ADDICTION. I have. I still see it as a choice. Once in the midst of addiction, you are still making choices. I strongly (VERY STRONGLY) disagree with those who paint addiction in other terms. I get the feeling of powerlessness and strong denial that comes with addiction. If it helps make your points about addiction easier, we can pretend for a few moments like I don't get it. But I assure you, I VERY MUCH DO. So, when done with ranting on a level that I think is completely misguided around addictions, we can talk about reality of how choices do change and how you were able to get back to cessation after becoming that addict again. By your choice to take up smoking.

Vaping is (arguably) a cure for abusive smoking. But it is a still a (daily) choice for a former smoker to not smoke, or a choice for them to have one. Even still a choice to have more than one. Even STILL a choice to have umpteen million packs and experience powerlessness over stopping. And yet, many have and do stop. In the end, they ALL DO.

 

[AndriaD]

Vaping is (arguably) a cure for abusive smoking. But it is a still a (daily) choice for a former smoker to not smoke, or a choice for them to have one. Even still a choice to have more than one. Even STILL a choice to have umpteen million packs and experience powerlessness over stopping. And yet, many have and do stop. In the end, they ALL DO.

I suppose I can view it in terms of my present attitude to drinking: just don't drink. In AA, it's presented as "go to meetings, and don't drink," but for me, "don't drink" is all I need to know; everything else in my recovery from alcoholism flows from that single choice. It's an easy choice now, I have 22 yrs of not drinking to back it up... but at first, it wasn't easy at all, and it really did need those daily meetings to back it up, to keep me motivated to keep making that choice. The 1st step is, "we admitted that we were powerless over alcohol, and our lives had become unmanageable" -- as long as I don't drink, I do have power over alcohol -- the power not to consume it. But if I drank, that power would leave me, for god knows how long, until I managed to scrape up some semblance of choice to get sober again -- I don't know if I could ever do it again, knowing how hard it was the first time. And knowing how hard it was to get smoke-free a 2nd time and *stay that way*, I don't know if I could ever do that again either -- so I exercise my choice, my power, by not doing it at all, and by stockpiling all necessary substances and items to make sure that vaping *as I see fit to do it* will remain my choice. I know myself, my propensities, and my addictive nature well enough not to go tempting it by trying to do it "non-abusively." For me, and doubtless a lot of others, that is simply not an option.

Andria

 

[nicnik]

I am a proud dual user. Some of the posts in this thread are disheartening, others I 'liked.'

I don't think most eCig users are dual users, but do think that within the first year that a vast majority may not kick the habit of smoking, especially if they are looking at eCigs as 'easy way out of smoking' and if that isn't 100% true, then they may revert back to abusive smoking.

Abusive smoking is the issue, for me. I no longer do that. I find it very challenging to consider how anyone could do that in a world where eCigs are being mass produced. About the only way I can reconcile that abusive smoking still exists now is that a) we (the world) are in a massive transitional period and b) ANTZ types are doing all they can to make the transition to full acceptance of vaping as difficult as possible.

I dual use for a couple reasons, but one is for the politics of things.



Very much agree that dual users should be welcome and do believe that for the most part they very much are.

I am up for 'escalating the fight' via purposeful dual use. Hence, one of the reasons I dual use. Even if zero dual users existed, ANTZ are going to continue being ANTZ. Anyone that disputes that assertion, please speak up. Be bold. I'll listen. But, I won't kowtow to more ANTZ rhetoric around 'dual use' just because some vapers are onboard suddenly with anti-smoking rhetoric. You ought to be ashamed, and if not, I'll see to it that your words are used against you, for they are that frivolous and easy to defeat.

As one who has quit cold turkey, I get the liberation that can come from cessation. Yet, as one who dual uses and has been liberated from abusive smoking, I am a little more proud as a dual user than I was as non-smoking person with head buried in the proverbial sand. If vaping were only about cessation, then logically at some point, the 'movement' would become all about cessation from vaping. For surely, former vapers will one day exist, and if they are anything like former smokers, I say watch out.

Vaping has become for me, a recreational choice and one that I see many engaged in. I realize that for many it is a cessation device, and I think it will be for as long as we are in this transitional period. But that really does not need any touting or preaching. In fact, I think it works far better for smokers and vaping community if that is discovered on its own, and in own way for each individual. Which for some, perhaps many, that will include some sense of dual using. Possibly dual using indefinitely. Which begs the question of "is cessation occurring if dual user is smoking?" And in my view, if the addiction to abusive smoking has been broken, then it is, in essence occurring. While that is debatable (and I'm up for that debate), I could point to all the vapers who claim without legal access to vaping, they'd be back to smoking (abusively, presumably) which also begs the question of, "have you really quit?"

I rant because I tire of vaping being seen only thru prism of cessation (as in abstinence). I find that to be dangerous thinking but also the norm, it seems of current vaping community. As if being set up like a bowling pin, but thinking instead like it is the most righteous path. Really? Even during my cold turkey days I couldn't stoop to such a low level of ignorance. A shame to see it become the predominant thought (or even an afterthought) within the vaping community.

Since you started posting that term "abusive smoking", I've thought about what would constitute abusive smoking for me. Vaping has changed it from any smoking any at all, to more than a couple of cigarettes a week. What you've been writing explains why the change. I couldn't limit it that much before vaping. Now that I vape I know for certain I could.

I haven't had even a drag from a cigarette for almost two years, but I keep procrastinating with my intent to try one. In the beginning of my vaping, that was a great way to keep me vaping and not smoking. I don't need that extra incentive any more, but I don't at all believe there's any risk in me tyring one smoke out of curiosity.

 

[Hydroscopic]

I rant because I tire of vaping being seen only thru prism of cessation (as in abstinence).

Believe me, I understand your frustration. If I type out what I really think about "vaping purists" jumping all over other vapers for not conforming to their preferences and ideologies, I’ll get banned from this forum.

That was why in the original quote of the article it had written the double simultaneous use at the same time and I didn't quote that because I don't want dual users being demonized by what I can only describe as 'vaping purists.' My concern was that had I quoted what the author had written that they saw, someone might have jumped all over the dual users instead of examining the likelihood of bending the truth by the author. Which is why I specifically said that dual users should be welcomed. By welcomed, I don't mean welcomed and then badgered into someone else's personal preference.

As for "escalation", dual users aren't escalating the fight. I can see how that read both ways. Maybe this clarification will help: The ANTZ are using dual users to escalate the fight. You know as well as I do that their logic smacks of fabrication to best suit their viewpoint. Even if the author had witnessed one person actually simultaneously dual using with each in one hand and the other, that is one person not representative of an entire demographic.

That said, it is also why I am no fan of the media trying to pigeonhole vapers into a stereotype. From what I read in the news and on blogs: We're all either nicotine fiends looking for a fix and circumventing smoking bans as dual users or we are supposedly neckbearded cloud chasers in their eyes. All of us are catering to destroying the delicate sensibilities of the children. - We all know that is absolute horse {manure}. Though the problem is that immediately all those "vaping purists" jump on the different vapers instead of jumping on the media for not getting their {manure} right.

 

[Hydroscopic]

I thought this was going to be an interesting comparison of the addiction to tech vs nicotine which would have made a much better piece.

I thought the same. My gears were grinding a little when the tech comparison was limited to the counter level of a 7-11.

Would it have been that difficult to look up a few YouTube reviewers and possibly window shop devices comparing specs on vaping sites? /Rhetorical.

I don't experience euphoria or anxiety over vaping or smoking as the author had written about the heart racing. Vape mail and new items from the store are great but I don't get actually physically agitated.

 

[DC2]

Of course a collegiate opinion piece.

It seems that these many collegiate "journalists" are quite good at doing nothing well.
They are well qualified to become our next reporters and newscasters.

And it is also a good indicator of how our colleges are doing at indoctrinating.
Because, that is after all their job these days.

 

[DC2]

I rant because I tire of vaping being seen only thru prism of cessation (as in abstinence). I find that to be dangerous thinking but also the norm, it seems of current vaping community.

I have to agree here.

I feel as though I have transcended to a higher plane.
A place in which I can have a cigarette anytime I want with no worries of going back.

This is the true freedom.

 

[EBates]

This whole thread is discussing a Know Nothing Article written by a Know Nothing 'author'!
How you vape/smoke is your choice, so if that includes the 'two fisted' dual user technique is your choice. My issue is with the 'author' calling what they observed on a patio as 'how vapers do it'. Putting a saddle on a pig Does Not transform it into a horse.
As was stated earlier, a prime example of the future of news reporters.

 

[nicnac]

I have to agree here.

I feel as though I have transcended to a higher plane.
A place in which I can have a cigarette anytime I want with no worries of going back.

This is the true freedom.

That is exactly my story. Haven't bought cigs in 5 years. Now if I'm in a party and am offered a stick, I would have no problem enjoying that one cig without any worries about going back. I really do enjoy vaping a lot more than cigs.
Most people that go back to smoking, did not have the right gear to get them off. I've seen many of them and I have saved a few from going back by introducing them the proper gears to stick with vapor