New Vaccine for Nicotine Addiction
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I have no doubt that you are right regarding the motivations of Big tobacco in providing less dangerous products.
But given that the same motivations drive pretty much every company in existence, I don't see any reason to single them out on this.
Big Pharma, from what I can see, is far more evil than Big tobacco ever was.
And there is plenty of proof that they don't do things out of the goodness of their heart.
In fact, there is plenty of proof they would love to sell you all kinds of products that may kill you.
And there is plenty of proof that they would love to hide all their dirty little secrets, just like Big Tobacco did.
But what makes them worse is that they run around playing the good guy.
And they pay big money to encourage others to run around telling everyone they are the good guy.
So since this is a thread about a Big Pharma product, my two cents on this issue goes against them.
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You are misreading my friend, I am of the stance that everyone should be able to make these choices for themselves. Had nothing to do with you personally. I only quoted your statement as a statement that I am not here for that reason.
/end
As far as vaccinations for things that do not require vaccinations go...
Lets implant V-chips to keep our kids from swearing...(Southpark Movie)
Lets blind them as soon as they are able to search for net porn...
Lets cut out their tongues so they can never lie...
Lets hobble them so they cannot cross the street and get hit by cars...
Lets...
Lets just educate them and give them the proper tools to make decisions on their own...vaccinating against nicotine...this world just makes me want to vomit!
Ron -
"Big tobacco puts extra ingrediants in there products that cause cancer. Even in the small amouts."
Los, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you because you're just repeating the propaganda you've been fed. Just like the statement above about extra ingredients. There are a lot of ingredients in all types of products that cause cancer. Cigarettes would be relatively safe if you stopped setting them on fire. Things like diesel fuel, campfires, wood burning fireplaces, or any bio-fuel that is ignited creates cancer causing chemical reaction.
Every company makes mistakes and for the most part work very hard to minimize their exposure to those errors. You've got pills that kill people, cars "unsafe at any speed" and paint that they add "addition chemicals"
(lead) that is deadly. A lot of room for hate everywhere.
Los, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you because you're just repeating the propaganda you've been fed. Just like the statement above about extra ingredients. There are a lot of ingredients in all types of products that cause cancer. Cigarettes would be relatively safe if you stopped setting them on fire. Things like diesel fuel, campfires, wood burning fireplaces, or any bio-fuel that is ignited creates cancer causing chemical reaction.
Every company makes mistakes and for the most part work very hard to minimize their exposure to those errors. You've got pills that kill people, cars "unsafe at any speed" and paint that they add "addition chemicals"
(lead) that is deadly. A lot of room for hate everywhere.
I think we need a new model of the realm we are dealing with if we are to expect acceptance of vaping.
While our success so far has been quite amazing...
I will not deny that new paradigms might be helpful in this fight.
Suggestions?
You are right in many resepcts. However, we have not had to deal much with many of the really difficult parts.
I suggest we drop the model of dealing with necessary entities in terms of combat, war, 'fight,' etc. Work and effort may be more positive memes. Recognize that many outside the vaping realm that we must deal with are not the policy makers, but rather ordinary people doing a job for which their outlook is largely shaped by forces beyond their personal thoughts. Gaining some acceptance with them may work its way up the ladder.
Example: I have to deal with all kinds of entities, all with assets, many with glaring drawbacks. I am not hostile and in their face over their shortcomings for criteria that may be set well ouside of their personal reach. All have something I want or need. It is a matter of everyday curtesy and some thought of what they have to deal with.
The ongoing sophmoric talk of the flaws in the various systems and their outlooks, which is often couched in smearing language buys us little. I suspect it does more to stir up angst and contempt among our own numbers who include many with our own difficulties. We don't need to keep reinforcing negetive emotions in ourselves, and none of it is going to help overcome the perceived obstacles coming from the FDA, the pharmacuetical industry and the tobacco industry.
Accpeptance in the halls of authority is less likely with a hostile outlook coming from the vaping community. There is only one place to put the hate, etc., if we are to move forward in public acceptance and that is behind us. The ugliness in name calling, vilifying, and a contemptous attitude towards those who hold keys and possible enhancements to our efforts does not further us. Yes, their agenda is not our agenda, but we need to understand how they work and eventually convince the powers that be that our interests can be accomidated.
It's easy enough if we let the negetive outlook and judgement simmer a bit...think of it as steeping that leads to a better product.
This is not a blueprint, but it is a mindset from which a decent blueprint can be formed. A confident, mature adult outlook in the dealings ahead will take us farther if we leave behind the negetive emotial baggage.
I don't offer the above as inargueable, but to argue it is it maintain the status quo here and in the eyes of those we must deal with and may have the effect of cementing us into a cul-de-sac.
Beware of those among us who attempt to foster a hostile outlook.
I largely agree with you Mr. Cool, but I think it is actually very few who are pushing the hostile approach. I know groups like tobacco harm reduction organization and CASSA have consistently taken the high road. There are a few folks who go off on occasional rants but it rarely gets beyond ECF.
The problem is that it's not us who is choosing to fight, it's the ANTZ. I would venture to guess that everyone involved with harm reduction would like nothing more then the war to be over and to be just left alone to do our thing without threats of bans, undo restrictions, lose of dignity from the de-normalization of tobacco/nicotine use, unjust taxation, and the general hostile attitude that is being pushed by the ANTZ.
We didn't start this war, but a war is being waged against us wether we like it or not. A nicotine vaccine shows just how far out of bounds this has gone.
Without question we need to stay on the high road, and I admit I occasionally fall off a bit. But I can't lose sight that there really are people out there that really do want to destroy us at any cost. There are millions of dollars flowing into the PR front groups of BP. They will and do use any dirty trick, lie, half truth, manipulation of facts, and plain old corruption to get what they want. There truly is an enemy and it's not just irrational paranoia.
The problem is that it's not us who is choosing to fight, it's the ANTZ. I would venture to guess that everyone involved with harm reduction would like nothing more then the war to be over and to be just left alone to do our thing without threats of bans, undo restrictions, lose of dignity from the de-normalization of tobacco/nicotine use, unjust taxation, and the general hostile attitude that is being pushed by the ANTZ.
We didn't start this war, but a war is being waged against us wether we like it or not. A nicotine vaccine shows just how far out of bounds this has gone.
Without question we need to stay on the high road, and I admit I occasionally fall off a bit. But I can't lose sight that there really are people out there that really do want to destroy us at any cost. There are millions of dollars flowing into the PR front groups of BP. They will and do use any dirty trick, lie, half truth, manipulation of facts, and plain old corruption to get what they want. There truly is an enemy and it's not just irrational paranoia.
There's been a lot of ill informed press reports about vaping recently and the scare tactics being used about nicotine have been shockingly innaccurate and ill informed. It makes me wonder what, if any, effect that this news about a vaccine will have. Balance this up with the heavy investment made in the tobacco industries by our councils all over the uk, there couldn't really be much support of any type of vaccine. In the big scheme of things, us vapers remain a small minority with an unusual habit. It's great that the community is growing steadily but we still have a way to go before we are in a position to lobby successfully and with longevity of purpose. The lack of medical research in the area of vaping will continue to harm our effortts and I hope we can gain the increasing support of the medical community along our journey.
It seems our FDA is initiating "Research and Analysis of Clinical Pharmacology of Tobacco Products."
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/309688-cigarette-papers-project-ariel.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/309688-cigarette-papers-project-ariel.html
I saw that article yesterday. It's cool to come here and see what some peoples' thoughts are on it.
Ariel-Waschpulver Bild - Haushaltschemikalien - 103209398 - german.alibaba.com
Ariel is a German washing powder 
Ariel is a German washing powder
I wish there was a vaccine for stupidity (not referring to the above humorous jokes- which were quite clever btw, but against the stupid ANTZ and quit or die mentality)....
We all fit in the fight ... somewhere.
For me ... Its NOT in meetings with ANTZ.
I'm the type that would raise his hand to ask them a question.
"Were you born an IDIOT ... What planet are you from ... Originally" ??
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