Cloning Milk and Honey

[C4M3120N]

ooops, I didn't actually have Dairy Milk either, it is another one that is already on it's way too. From my order to obtain the ingredients for the other two recipes you pm'd me, lol. So I had to adjust your order with what I had, a few minor tweaks I had to make included:

TFA Vanilla Custard @ 3% because my CAP Vanilla Custard isn't here yet.
TFA Banana instead of FW Banana, even though I have FW Banana, I have yet to make anything with FW that I can tolerate.
TFA Sweet Cream instead of TFA Dairy Milk, I thought of trying TFA Whipped Cream too and maybe I will later.

Other than that, I kept everything the same and I have to say, it smells pretty close to the original! I'm going to let it sit and blend a little before I try and vape any though. It tastes a little strong and different though and by that I mean, I put a little drop of M&H on one finger and a drop of this on another and it is close but not the same but that is possibly something that steeping for a week or more could fix. In that sort of taste taste, your version has a more spicy taste to it, which could also have something to do a little bit to my next comment as well...

TFA Graham Cracker (Clear) vs. TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust), while they do have a hint of the same graham cracker taste to each of them, that is also where their similarities end. You can obviously smell graham in both of them but TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) definitely has more notes to it, it has a little spice note to it and is a much harder/stronger overall flavor. TFA Graham Cracker (Clear) has a very smooth and mellow note to it, almost a little buttery/custard note to it. It's really hard describing the differences so I apologize if this doesn't help, lol. There is a definite difference though. I will make another batch replacing the two and check it out.

 

[matrix961]

ooops, I didn't actually have Dairy Milk either, it is another one that is already on it's way too. From my order to obtain the ingredients for the other two recipes you pm'd me, lol. So I had to adjust your order with what I had, a few minor tweaks I had to make included:

TFA Vanilla Custard @ 3% because my CAP Vanilla Custard isn't here yet.
TFA Banana instead of FW Banana, even though I have FW Banana, I have yet to make anything with FW that I can tolerate.
TFA Sweet Cream instead of TFA Dairy Milk, I thought of trying TFA Whipped Cream too and maybe I will later.

Other than that, I kept everything the same and I have to say, it smells pretty close to the original! I'm going to let it sit and blend a little before I try and vape any though. It tastes a little strong and different though and by that I mean, I put a little drop of M&H on one finger and a drop of this on another and it is close but not the same but that is possibly something that steeping for a week or more could fix. In that sort of taste taste, your version has a more spicy taste to it, which could also have something to do a little bit to my next comment as well...

TFA Graham Cracker (Clear) vs. TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust), while they do have a hint of the same graham cracker taste to each of them, that is also where their similarities end. You can obviously smell graham in both of them but TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) definitely has more notes to it, it has a little spice note to it and is a much harder/stronger overall flavor. TFA Graham Cracker (Clear) has a very smooth and mellow note to it, almost a little buttery/custard note to it. It's really hard describing the differences so I apologize if this doesn't help, lol. There is a definite difference though. I will make another batch replacing the two and check it out.

I see what you are saying about the taste on the tongue. I'm wondering if that could also be the overall potency at 30%. Or it could be a particular flavor past a certain potency or one that doesn't need to be in there at all. I don't have much time now but will respond with more later. Thank you very much for testing BTW.

Something is definitely happening to me tho. After smelling this new recipe for a bit and vaping some of it my previous recipes where I had the peanut butter at the top now smell like sweet non-creamy peanut butter LOL. My senses are changing, for the better I think. I used to think those smelled so close LOL.

Edit:
Also about tasting it directly on your tongue do you mean like a strong bitterness. I seem to be picking up a bitterness when tasted directly. The original didn't seem to have it as much. This could be the overall potency or the graham crust. I wonder if the graham clear also has a bitterness when tasted directly. A lot of flavors do but are usually ok at lower percentages.

Edit2:
Also wanted to state that I'm still testing with 0mg NIC so it's not the nic that's making it bitter when tasting on my tongue. The original is smoother. Now when vaping it is sweet etc. I bet it's the potency. I'm going to try these potency's and see.

Lower potency options:

Just shooting from the hip here...

25% Total:
TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 6.0%
TFA Cotton Candy 5.0%
TFA Marshmallow 4.0%
TFA Peanut Butter 3.0%
TFA Dairy Milk 2.0%
CAP Vanilla Custard 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 1.0%
TFA Banana Cream 1.0%
FW Banana 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1.0%

20% Total:
TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 5.0%
TFA Cotton Candy 4.0%
TFA Marshmallow 3.0%
TFA Peanut Butter 2.0%
TFA Dairy Milk 1.0%
CAP Vanilla Custard 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 1.0%
TFA Banana Cream 1.0%
FW Banana 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1.0%

Gotta go now. The 3 & 1/2 year old wants to play outside. Have to go make sure he doesn't destroy anything LOL.

Update: 4/15/15 11:53pm EST

Ok bad idea on reducing the cream based ingredients, milk, custards, even the marshmallow.

For now this one does the best for me at 30%. I'm even considering increasing slightly past 30% but need to be careful on that.
Actually I'll probably wait till I get the other ingredients so I can try the graham clear etc. One thing is certain for me is that
I need to keep a distance between the graham and the peanut butter for sure or else the peanut butter takes over.

TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 7.0%
TFA Cotton Candy 6.0%
TFA Marshmallow 4.0%
TFA Peanut Butter 3.0%
TFA Dairy Milk 2.0%
CAP Vanilla Custard 2.0%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 2.0%
TFA Banana Cream 2.0%
FW Banana 1.0%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1.0%

Gonna head to bed now finally.

 

[DrLucky]

If your mixes taste better at higher percentages, do what you like!
But I will add that as you go higher and higher on percentages, you begin to taste them less.
It'll either overload and cancel itself out or begin to over-power another flavor, which is made up for by increasing that flavor instead of lowering the first.
Marshmallow is different as its more of a mouth-feel ingredient but also follows the same rule and works best at 2% or less.
FA brand flavors, especially, are much more concentrated than other brands and work best at no higher than 2% for main flavors and fractions of a percent for accent notes.
I think you'll notice more notes and intricacies at well balanced lower levels without losing the overall strength of the mix.
Your taste buds also won't "fry" as quickly on certain flavors.

-----------------------------

I got my first refill shipment in as well as a few new flavors. Tonight's attempt:

v16 4/16/15
Graham Cracker (TFA) 2%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 3%
Banana Nut Bread (TFA) 3%
Marshmallow (FA) 2%
Caramel (FA) 0.2%
AP 0.3%
EM 1%
Fresh Cream (FA) 1.5%

I chickened out on the FA Hazelnut, but will cave and try it in my follow up batch unless this turns out magical.
The Banana Nut Bread has a nice creamy-sweet banana smell and nutty-bready is definitely a profile in M&H, so I have high hopes for this ingredient.
I definitely plan to order banana foster next time.
FA Fresh Cream has been said to be a plain and simple cream flavor without the custard or vanilla notes (which I think interfere with the richer flavors elsewhere in the mix) So my expectations are for a creamier bodier base without muddled flavoring.

-----------------------------

Questions about actual M&H:
Does anyone get a Marshmallow flavor or just a marshmallow feel?

How sure are we of a graham cracker note?

Does anyone get a fruit note beside banana? Does anyone note get a banana note at all?

If everyone answers any of these for us, can you also let us know what hardware and wattage or resistance you vaped it on?
These sorts of answers will give us very good clues

 

[matrix961]

If your mixes taste better at higher percentages, do what you like!
But I will add that as you go higher and higher on percentages, you begin to taste them less.
It'll either overload and cancel itself out or begin to over-power another flavor, which is made up for by increasing that flavor instead of lowering the first.
Marshmallow is different as its more of a mouth-feel ingredient but also follows the same rule and works best at 2% or less.
FA brand flavors, especially, are much more concentrated than other brands and work best at no higher than 2% for main flavors and fractions of a percent for accent notes.
I think you'll notice more notes and intricacies at well balanced lower levels without losing the overall strength of the mix.
Your taste buds also won't "fry" as quickly on certain flavors.

I agree with this however these ingredients can do well at higher percentages if they are blended correctly. I also don't mean at any high percentage, I think they all have their boundries. I've tried so many DIY recipes that have had the highest ratings in some cases but one thing has always stood out for me. The lower the overall percentages no matter how well ingredients are strategically placed always tend to fade after a fairly short period of vaping for me. On the other hand taking those blends up in overall percentage as long as you can find the best placements for the individual percentages have yielded longer lasting flavor profiles for me. But the downside as I've found with my previous recipes is that if I mess up and choose the wrong ingredient to be at the top of the list I can only hope at some point my taste buds will forgive me for it.

Also please don't take my comment in a bad way. It's just me explaining that "I love as much flava as possible!!!" I guess I just love pushing the envelope then pulling back just enough for the best experience possible for me. I definitely know the risks but for me it's a "no pain no gain" mentality LOL. I love suggestions tho and if it wasn't for C4M3120N initially saying how he thought the peanut butter was too high I wouldn't have revisited that and reworked it. Even someone I worked with said it was too peanut buttery. Then the wife said the same thing, too much dry peanut butter. I started feeling isolated LOL. Now that I've pulled myself away from the high peanut butter I can definitely see what they were talking about when smelling the old mixes. What a seriously crazy eye opener on how our senses can be.

I chickened out on the FA Hazelnut, but will cave and try it in my follow up batch unless this turns out magical.
The Banana Nut Bread has a nice creamy-sweet banana smell and nutty-bready is definitely a profile in M&H, so I have high hopes for this ingredient.
I definitely plan to order banana foster next time.
FA Fresh Cream has been said to be a plain and simple cream flavor without the custard or vanilla notes (which I think interfere with the richer flavors elsewhere in the mix) So my expectations are for a creamier bodier base without muddled flavoring.

That's interesting about the banana bread. I missed ordering that one tho as I found with checking my order list for the TFA stuff that's on it's way. I did get the foster tho.

Your comment on the FA fresh creme (you do mean "cream fresh flavor" right?) has me very interested now. I've also read about that being more of just a cream with no custard. One thing about this is that I've wanted to try it since I think it could be the missing something in a few recipes I've worked with, possibly including this one. I could then potentially drop the other ingredients for that creaminess. I don't recall finding any FA flavors at Wizard Labs tho. Do you know of a good place to get this quickly from? I think the main company is in Italy.

Questions about actual M&H:
Does anyone get a Marshmallow flavor or just a marshmallow feel?

How sure are we of a graham cracker note?

Does anyone get a fruit note beside banana? Does anyone note get a banana note at all?

If everyone answers any of these for us, can you also let us know what hardware and wattage or resistance you vaped it on?
These sorts of answers will give us very good clues

About the original...

I think I get a little bit of marshmellow but it's not always there maybe more of a feel I guess. I think of a sticky sweetness like marshmallow fluff.

I personally can't pick out the graham too well on it's own but I know something is there with the peanut butter flavor. It just reminds me of dipping a graham cracker in peanut butter which is a favorite nighttime snack of mine. When I have that snack I'm tasting some of both but it's like a new taste almost, not more of one or the other. This is what reminds me of original M&H.

Banana is definitely there. I notice it more on the first 1 or 2 vapes but if I keep vaping, it usually fades. However after taking a break for a few minutes and vape again it's definitely there. Although it is light.

I'm normally vaping at .2ohm at 50watts using a troll rda with a sigelei 100w plus. I also use my Atlantis with it's subohm battery which is .5ohm at around 25-30 watts I think. My smaller pen style aspire K1 using a CF G-Power is 1.6ohm at 7-10watts, just guessing on wattage for this one here. This is what I have to run that at if I put it on my box mod.

Using three different pieces of gear the flavor in the original is pretty good on all three of them. Now as I move up to the atlantis and the RDA the flavors do become more pronounced but I don't think I've noticed a change in the actual profile tho. I still get baked goods as you have said (potentially peanut butter with graham), creaminess, banana, and sticky fluffy sweetness.

Edit:
Also with the new recipe you are trying, I don't have any FA ingredients to try it but I do have a suggestion based on the experience with peanut butter I had having it over the others even in a recipe I did at around 13%. If this one doesn't work out for you maybe try swapping the peanut butter and graham around percentage wise. Also maybe even a larger gap like 3% graham & 1.5% PB or 4% graham and 2% PB etc. Just a thought.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hello fellow clone hunters,

@ DrLucky - Answers for Questions about actual M&H:
Without question, I am 110% confident that Marshmallow, Graham Cracker and Banana a key ingredients to M&H, which ones specifically and in what %'ages is another story however, lol. I'm also fairly certain about Cotton Candy and Vanilla be it Custard or Swirl or both. I vape on an Eleaf iStick 30w and a Smok Fury-S Mechanical Mod, Kanger Subtank Mini and The Derringer RDA, I personally prefer the 18-22watt range and 0.4-0.7Ohm range.

@ matrix961 - I want to let your high octane (30%, with my substitutions) test batch steep for a whole week before really testing it and evaluating it. However I did try it a little after mixing it last night and the sweetness of M&H was definitely there, which is awesome! I know steeping this for at least a week is going to do this mix a lot of justice. With all these flavors, a natural one week minimum is definitely needed to blend and round out all these flavors. The Banana %'ages seem almost spot on, very close. Like DrLucky was trying to say though, with many flavorings, sometimes less is more. In your defense though, that is only really the case for steeped mixes, your not much on natural steeping (a week or more) from what I've gathered, lol. I also made the same batch using Graham Cracker Clear in place of the Cheesecake (Graham Crust). I'll probably try both of these on the 22nd and see how they have developed and release my opinions. As of right now, the one with Cheesecake (Graham Crust) smells better!

I don't think any Banana flavor should be ruled out, I agree with both of you on that. I'm almost wondering if the Nut in Banana Nut Bread is providing that Peanut Butter note we all seem to agree on? It's definitely worth checking out. I have used the Banana Nut Bread in my past M&H tests but those were mostly FW test batches so do to that funk that FW brings to table, obviously none of those tests really panned out...

I'm expecting my WL order to show up tomorrow that I placed a week ago. I thought it would be faster, WL headquarters is a four hour drive away from me, lol. I've got 30 new flavors coming from them. Some of the ones I am excited to test out for this are: Banana Split Flavor Concentrate by CAP, Ripe Banana Flavor Concentrate by TFA, Dairy Milk Flavor Concentrate by TFA and Strawberries & Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA. Yeah, I realize I might be a lone wolf on that last one, lol, but sometimes I swear I can taste and smell a very very light hint of Strawberry Cream even if it might only be at 0.5% or less. It's doesn't hurt to try, lol and since it's not a FW flavor, at least it will still be a vapable ingredient for future endeavors, lol.

I also only have maybe two or three FA flavors, they are incredibly potent though! ecigexpress sells over 100 FA flavors, $2.99 for 10ml or $5.99 for 30ml.

 

[matrix961]

Yeah you know what? I think to be fair I need to try this at a lower percentage and actually let it steep for at least a week without touching or smelling it. To be honest I think my high octane style might come from the fact that I'm a chain vaping individual. Maybe this is why I get impatient and look for ways to blend something vapable within 24-48 hours at most and has lasting flavor for constant cloud chuffin' .

Both of you make good points so maybe it's time to slow down a bit. Who knows I might be in for a surprise.

I found this place (with a tip from another forum member) 20 miles from me that actually stocks flavors and base LOL. I was so excited I took a half day and drove down. They had like 160+ DIY flavor concentrates, it was really awesome. The only thing tho is that they are their own custom blends. I was able to smell a variety of their flavors and even picked up some samples. Although not for use in our recipe adventures with M&H. I want to only use ingredients that everyone is used to from the known main suppliers. It's cool since I can now get base in a pinch if needed.

I did get some EM at this place, smells like cotton candy, that normal?

I also got an istick mini with a nautilus tank for a stealth like setup. Man this thing is tiny LOL. Works really well tho.

My bulk order from TFA arrives tomorrow with more flavors. I'm going to mix up a lower percentage version tonight to let steep for at least a week. I think I figured out the issue I had last night with my first reduction attempt so I should be good now.

 

[C4M3120N]

Yeah, I absolutely love my iStick 30w, it's only flaw that I can see is that it's not rated to fire below 0.4Ω, which isn't really a huge issue for me personally because I don't go below 0.4Ω, at least I haven't yet. I also never even go past 25w, so this little mod is perfect for my everyday use, plus it pockets nice. I guess another flaw would be that you have to solder a new battery in when that time comes but YouTube made that look pretty easy too, lol.

I've got a few new tanks on the way, the Atlantis, the Atlantis 2 and the MELO, I really only picked them up because they were at prices to hard to pass up, lol. For example, I got the Atlantis (V1), the Atlantis 2 and an Atlantis 5ml Tank Extender from ecig-city (w/code: vapedeals) shipped for $52.50. I picked them all up because locally, no one sells my Kanger OCC coils but the five shops around here all sell the Atlantis and the coils, for an in a pinch scenario. Plus from what I have read, all parts, including coils are interchangeable between all three of those tanks, which is awesome! When/if Fasttech ever starts selling pre-coiled 0.5Ω NR-R-NR coils, I'll be set for life, lol.

Anyway, enough off topic stuff, DrLucky doesn't like it!

I'm more interested in the experiment of if you CAN actually let a bottle sit for a week untouched? lol. Aside from pre-made vendor e-liquids, have you ever let any of your mixes steep for a week or more? Some people won't even touch a bottle if it hasn't steeped for a whole month. It really does make a difference, sometimes a huge difference! Maybe you should ask your wife to hide it, I'm not so sure you can leave a mix untouched, lol

Even just after 24 hours, my high octane test batch keeps smelling better and better each time I smell it. I'm thinking it's going to be pretty close to best workable mix any of us have come up with. I might mix up a second test batch myself at half the total % (15%) and see how that does after a week too. Just to compare the two. This is definitely going to be the recipe I keep tweeking to get closer to our clone.

Also @ M&H's overall sweetness. This could be do to flavoring alone but I did make a test batch of just Sweetener (Sucralose) I bought off ecigexpress and that stuff is potent and really sweet. I'm thinking one to two drops per 10ml would be more than enough to get to that sweet spot.

@ EM, yes it is supposed to smell exactly like Cotton Candy, which is what I was using before I actually had any Cotton Candy flavorings. I'm sure some flavor suppliers if not most probably use that in their Cotton Candy concentrate mixes. Ethyl Maltol comes in crystal form, some places already sell it diluted in something but EM is what is actually used at the fair to make real cotton candy, they just pour those crystals into the heated spinning drum and add some food coloring and maybe some other flavoring but it's still just mostly heated and spun EM crystals.

 

[matrix961]

C4M3120N,

LOL yes I can definitely not touch a test bottle for a week.

Ok so I thought I would fill you guys in on why something was off last night when I was trying to reduce the recipe down to 25% and 20%. It wasn't the reduction of the cream ingredients. It was the actual FW Banana. As strange as it sounds when part of an overall higher percentage mix it was working fairly well. Now as I started reducing and testing, even tho I still kept it low it started to cause this strangeness in the smell. I think what happens is the other ingredients hide that but as they also get reduced then it comes out.

Well needless to say it's out in my reduced test recipe. Although I had to stop at 24% when I realized this to take notes etc. So I'm going to mark this one for 24% and keep going down to 20%. Although I might just save that job for tomorrow since I am tired. So basically I'm only using the TFA Banana Cream which still works fine from what I can tell.

Also thanks for the info on the EM stuff.

I will also post my final reduced recipe I'm testing with once I'm done with it. Probably tomorrow evening.

----------------------------------------------Update: Adding the reworked 20% recipe for the steep test.-----------------------------------------------------

Ok so here is the 20% version that I’m going to let steep for a week. Not going to touch it at all. I had to do some shuffling around in order to ensure it hopefully stays balanced with what we currently know about the M&H profile. The only issue I could possibly have based on how I look at the ingredients is having the peanut butter and the dairy milk equal. I just have a thought that what if that could suppress the peanut butter even more and potentially too much. I look at these recipes with how each flavor smells and it’s intensity. I just try to place them the best I can based on that and the other ingredients as well.

Although just thinking about it if it is an issue with the peanut butter & dairy milk I would think we could just bump the peanut butter up by 0.5%? I dunno tho I feel that this should be fine tuning and maybe should wait until after a week of steeping, maybe more?

If anyone has any thoughts on this go ahead and jump in.

TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 5%
TFA Cotton Candy 4%
TFA Marshmallow 3%
TFA Peanut Butter 2%
TFA Dairy Milk 2%
CAP Vanilla Custard 1%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 1%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1%
TFA Banana Cream 1%

 

[DrMikeb]

Hey Guys, I recently found this thread and have been dying for a clone of M&H!! I cant stop vaping this!! Its getting expensive. I ordered some flavors you guys are trying so I can start mixing!!

 

[matrix961]

Hey Guys, I recently found this thread and have been dying for a clone of M&H!! I cant stop vaping this!! Its getting expensive. I ordered some flavors you guys are trying so I can start mixing!!

Welcome, glad to see another one join us. Right now we are pretty much testing some recipes and discussing different flavor options based on what we currently know of the M&H flavor profile. If you have any additional info about things you taste with the original M&H please do share.

C4M3120N,

I got my bulk TFA order in yesterday and also my 15ml test bottles, one of which is the graham clear. I see what you were saying about it. It does seem to be a smoother smelling light graham to me compared to the graham crust. Just by smelling right now I definitely think the graham crust is a stronger graham smell. I'll have to do a taste test and vape on the graham clear to learn more about how I pickup it's notes.

DrLucky,

Did you have any luck with the newest recipe you were going to try? I was wondering about the banana nut bread and how it does as well as the cream fresh flavor. I still have to put an order in for the cream fresh. I'm going to do that today.

 

[DrLucky]

My last batch was very promicing! Banana was too candy-tasting rather than creamy, so I'm letting it sit and steep to see if that improves. Otherwise I will go back to Banana Cream next as order Banana Foster next time.

I was very impressed with the effect of Cream Fresh! I will definitely be using it in all my future test batches for the time being.

The peanut butter is not as rich and creamy as usual. Perhaps as a result of the banana nut bread or due to the low percentage of Acetyl Pyrazine or Graham Cracker.
I've read from good sources that FA Hazelnut and equal parts FA Caramel make a peanut butter taste. I will try this some point in the future as well.

Mouth feel and density are spot on, though! Smell out of the bottle is very close as well.

I plan to try turning it into an all FA mix eventually if FA has TPA counter parts. No FA Graham Cracker, though. I'm still not 100% on a graham cracker note. What else could it be?

 

[DrLucky]

Tonight's brews!

v17 4/19/15
Graham Cracker (TFA) 3%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 3%
Banana Cream (TFA) 3%
Marshmallow (FA) 2%
AP 0.5%
EM 1%
Fresh Cream (FA) 1.5%
---
v18 4/19/15
Graham Cracker (TFA) 3%
Hazelnut (FA) 1%
Banana Cream (TFA) 2.5%
Marshmallow (FA) 2%
Caramel (FA) 1%
AP 0.5%
EM 1%
Fresh Cream (FA) 2%

 

[nicobeak]

So, /u/smoakleyyyy on reddit posted this (with INW honey 1.5% instead of FA). IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A CLONE, it just happens to share the name. I made it, and I think it could be modified for a good base.

Milk and Honey (Smoakelyyy's )
Fresh Cream (FA) 1.50%
Meringue (FA) 1.50%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 2.00%
Bergamot (FA) 1.00%
Honey Dilution 10% (FA) 3.00% (smoakleyyy used INW honey 1.5%)
Bavarian Cream (TFA) 4.00%
Graham Cracker Clear (TFA) 3.00%

Here is what I will try when I get a chance:

Fresh Cream (FA) 1.50%
Meringue (FA) 1.50%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 2.00%
Honey Dilution 10% 3.00%
Bavarian Cream (TFA) 4.00%
Graham Cracker Clear (TFA) 3.00%
Some Banana (?%)
Some Peanut butter (1%)

I may add Bergamot (FA) .25% (for science)

The characteristic meringue taste dies down a little after a day or so, but it may still need to be dropped.

What are the banana findings lately?

 

[DrLucky]

Hey nicobeak! Glad to see you here again.

I have all those ingredients, I'll give it a shot. However FA honey is WAY WAY strong. I wouldn't use more than 0.5% of the 10% diluted mix or it will be very overpowering.
As for a M&H clone, I still don't think it's a flavor in the mix, but perhaps it could be an enhancer to another flavor in extremely small quantities.

I've been happiest with my banana cream over all, but I'm quite curious to try banana foster.
What are all of our options out there? If anyone can populate a list of banana flavors and vendors that'd be very helpful. If not I'll post one when I'm not at work.

I'm letting my batches from last night steep. I'll probably do some early testing of them though. I discovered last night that I'd left my crockpot on for like 3 days straight, so I need to scrub it down before I put any of my juices in there.

 

[ckquatt]

As far as the bananas I've tried (all TFA).

Ripe Banana - Tastes and smells just like a banana that's peel has turned just about all brown and the meat itself has that moist "goo" on it. Really ripe and a little goes a long way!

Banana - The less ripe version. Smells like a perfect banana. Not near as strong flavored as Ripe.

Bananas Foster - Is the regular banana with a brandy or bourbon note. Also a teeny bit of brown sugar in the smell our of the bottle. Haven't used it in a reside yet.

Those are the only ones I've got. (I've got banana nut bread, and banana cream but didn't list them, I figured you already knew about those)

 

[nicobeak]

Ok, this is what I mixed up:

Fresh Cream (FA) 1.50%
Meringue (FA) 1.50%
Vanilla Swirl (TFA) 2.00%
Bergamot (FA) 0.25%
Honey Dilution 10% (FA) 1.00%
Bavarian Cream (TFA) 4.00%
Graham Cracker Clear (TFA) 3.00%
Banana (MF) 0.25%
Peanut Butter (TFA) 1.00%

I think this might have potential. Somebody please try it and let me know what they think. I did a 12ml tester and it was one drop of bergamot and one drop of the medicine flower banana. I don't expect anyone to have the banana, maybe make some without any banana, and one with a banana of your choosing. The medicine flower banana is super strong, so you might want to do 1-2% of whatever banana you use. I am lazy and didn't feel like rewicking just to try it, so it is probably being thrown off a little by the mint chocolate chip ice cream I had on previously. I'll let it sit and try on a fresh wick in the next couple of days.

 

[matrix961]

Finally found what was causing a funkyness to the mix as it aged. I made it a full week steeping without vaping my 20% mix. Although it turned out fine, there was this smell of super extra ripe banana. Thats the best i can explain it. After testing each individual flavor again which was a pain i found it was a combo with the cheesecake graham and the banana. I now have a mix without the cheesecake graham and it doesnt have that strangness after a few days. Still smells great and close to me for m&h. Still waiting until after a full week tho to be sure.

I also added a new ingredient to work with the peanut butter. So far its working well with mellowing out the peant butter. Its TFA milk chocolate, its light and milky chocolate, not too strong for me. I added it at the same percent as the peanut butter. It doesnt seem to overpower anything. I dont taste it over anything else. The overall mix is smelling nice and tasting great. Even if this doesnt meet the m&h clone criteria its a definite vape for me. Ill post up the recipe for it soon just to put it out there for anyone.

I also dropped the custards and milk. I had to when ruling out ingredients for the funky smell. I found that it still has nice creaminess with the vanilla swirl, banana cream, marshmallow, and now the milk chocolate. Not sure if the custards and milk will make it back in or not.

 

[john333]

C4M3120N,

LOL yes I can definitely not touch a test bottle for a week.

Ok so I thought I would fill you guys in on why something was off last night when I was trying to reduce the recipe down to 25% and 20%. It wasn't the reduction of the cream ingredients. It was the actual FW Banana. As strange as it sounds when part of an overall higher percentage mix it was working fairly well. Now as I started reducing and testing, even tho I still kept it low it started to cause this strangeness in the smell. I think what happens is the other ingredients hide that but as they also get reduced then it comes out.

Well needless to say it's out in my reduced test recipe. Although I had to stop at 24% when I realized this to take notes etc. So I'm going to mark this one for 24% and keep going down to 20%. Although I might just save that job for tomorrow since I am tired. So basically I'm only using the TFA Banana Cream which still works fine from what I can tell.

Also thanks for the info on the EM stuff.

I will also post my final reduced recipe I'm testing with once I'm done with it. Probably tomorrow evening.

----------------------------------------------Update: Adding the reworked 20% recipe for the steep test.-----------------------------------------------------

Ok so here is the 20% version that I’m going to let steep for a week. Not going to touch it at all. I had to do some shuffling around in order to ensure it hopefully stays balanced with what we currently know about the M&H profile. The only issue I could possibly have based on how I look at the ingredients is having the peanut butter and the dairy milk equal. I just have a thought that what if that could suppress the peanut butter even more and potentially too much. I look at these recipes with how each flavor smells and it’s intensity. I just try to place them the best I can based on that and the other ingredients as well.

Although just thinking about it if it is an issue with the peanut butter & dairy milk I would think we could just bump the peanut butter up by 0.5%? I dunno tho I feel that this should be fine tuning and maybe should wait until after a week of steeping, maybe more?

If anyone has any thoughts on this go ahead and jump in.

TFA Cheesecake, Graham Crust 5%
TFA Cotton Candy 4%
TFA Marshmallow 3%
TFA Peanut Butter 2%
TFA Dairy Milk 2%
CAP Vanilla Custard 1%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 1%
TFA Vanilla Custard 1%
TFA Banana Cream 1%

I made something close to this. I had to improvise on the vanillas. I used Hangsen Vanilla at 2% to replace the vanilla custards. Everything else was exact. I made a 20ml batch and started vaping it a couple hours later. I usually use an ultrasonic and wait 3 days. Anyway the taste was surprising close to Mt. Baker Vapor Graham Cracker combined with their Moo Juice. Of course this didn't have the Strawberry Note from the Moo Juice but other than that I would say it was spot on. So, really liking this, I vape it for the next 3 or 4 days. I'm working night shift this week and got up last night to get ready for work and found the graham cracker taste had gone and the overall flavor seems muted. I don't know if it was because I didn't allow it to steep while I vaped 15 of the 20 mls or if it would have muted anyway over time. Also I didn't do a very good job of shaking it before dripping. I vaped it with a Hobo RDA on a Manhattan with a .1 ohm dual coil 26 ga parallel build. I even changed the cotton and dry burned the coils. Sitting here smelling the remaining 5 mls, I can pick up the banana cream over all the other flavors which is a little surprising since it was only 1% of the 20% batch.

 

[cheesebanana]

Joined just to thank you guys for this thread.

Milk and honey is about the best contender I've ever found for an all day vape, and I've just started getting into DIY, and I know how hard nailing a clone seems to be, so I appreciate all the efforts you guys are putting in to try and replicate this. Looking forward to joining the quest!

 

[matrix961]

While I still enjoy the last recipe I posted with the custards I wanted to try something without the graham. This is the recipe I had mentioned earlier removing the graham and adding the milk chocolate. The main reason I decided to try milk chocolate is that just thinking about vaping m&h just made me think that a nice silky light chocolate would do really good. I then had the idea that it could help the peanut butter in the recipe without being overpowering. So here is what I think is my final take on m&h for myself, for now . I'm really enjoying this one and it is definitely a good vape. For me in this I taste the marshmallow, peanut butter, banana, sometimes light vanilla, so I think the milk chocolate has worked itself in nicely with the peanut butter since I don't taste it by itself. That's just me tho so others tastes will vary.

TFA Marshmallow - 6%
TFA Cotton Candy - 5%
TFA Peanut Butter - 3%
TFA Milk Chocolate - 2%
TFA Vanilla Swirl - 2%
TFA Banana Cream - 2%

I think I'm going to take a break from actively working on the m&h recipes for a little while to give my senses a nice rest, maybe find something else to work on for a bit. I would like to thank everyone in this thread that I've communicated with, drlucky, c4m3120n, doubleewe, etc. Sharing ideas on flavors, recipes, techniques was a great learning experience. I'll definitely still be following the thread tho.