Discussion in 'Lavatube' started by Kencalise, Aug 26, 2012.
Did anyone try the Lambo 4.0?
Please share your ideas.
I just ordered one last night. I am excited to give it a try!. I will let you know what I think within the week.
Please do, I'd really appreciate any info regarding how well the unit does in terms of voltage drop as the battery gets low on charge -- ie, does it behave like the original L-Rider LTs and has a noticeable drop in vaping voltage when the battery drops beneath 3,9V or does it hold its own throughout the battery's entire voltage range like the newer Young-June versions?
My original LT (L-Rider v1) is basically falling to pieces so I need to get myself a new one but still don't know which one to get -- and now we get a new Lambo?
I would also appreciate it if anyone could provide any feedback on the Lambo 4.0 fire/vape/activation button: how it feels, how durable do you think it is... The real test won't be possible until someone gets a good few weeks of usage on the device -- only then will anyone be able to tell if the buttons on these newer units start to break down a couple of months later like my original v1 LT did, or if they've built a more durable solution.
Regardless, any feedback would be helpful.
By the way, are these Lambo 4.0 made by L-Rider? Are these the revamped version L-Rider has been promising for so long?
The 4.0 is made by L-Rider, this would be the first real update of the Lava as the others are technically knock-off's.
All the buttons (bar the red power button) are supposedly made from actual metal.
I'd be curious about it's performance myself - despite it's foibles, the original Lava was a great PV.
Without it's appearance, you wouldn't have seen any of the Chinese mods on the market today.
I will try to get the info you seek, regarding voltage drops etc. I am pretty tough on my pv's so it will need to take some abuse. It is about time I played the guinea pig given how much information this forum has given me ... and how many mistakes I could/would have made if not for you folks.
Looking forward to it, sedna, though I think I might pull the trigger on one before you come back with your findings (my tube is in really bad shape).
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the chip in this latest L-Rider 'tube uses PWM? You get the feeling reading the manufacturer's specs for the Lambo 4.0 that they've redesigned the electronics (it now reads atty/carto/tank resistance, boasts a higher amp rating), just wondering if they've chosen to follow what YJ has done with their 'tubes -- PBusardo's comparison review makes it crystal clear that YJ's 'tubes do a far better job delivering the requested voltage, especially as the battery gets low on charge, so it might be a good sign if L-Rider has gone the PWM route with their newest offering.
The Lavatube 2.0 should be out any day now, as soon as Volcano gets their stock back from China, you can check that out if you can afford to wait up to a couple weeks, or it could be in tomorrow as far as anybody knows. Check out Field of Vapor's videos on them, they look amazing. Higher amp limit, nicer looking, resistance checking, much sturdier and heavier. Check it out, I want one!
Whoops, just saw your comment on your tube being in bad shape.
The Lambo 4.0 does use PWM, if it's filtered it will be okay and if it's not, it'll be "hotter" than it should be.
Just so folks know... I asked today and the Lambo 4.0 is Not a PWM device.
From a UK vendor who asked an L-Rider rep if the Lambo 4.0 uses PWM;
As far as I know most VV mods use some kind of PWM (except linear regulators) it's whether it's filtered or not that makes a difference.
The Provari also uses PWM but because it's filtered the voltage is very stable - it's not always a bad thing.
I just received my Lambo 4.0 today and I am loving it so far. I do need to use a 510 extension on it though as there does not seem to be adequate airflow to my Vivi Nova without it. I am running a 2.4 head at 5 volts and absolutely loving it. So if it is PWM it is either filtered or just setup better. If I ran this Vivi on my gripper at 5.0 it would burn the juice for sure. Unfortunately I do not have a Provari to compare it to. This is my favorite device to date, at least so far in my short testing period. I also have Gripper, Lavatube 1.0, varitube X, eGo Twist, and several cig shaped devices.
This thing has some real nice heft to it as well. The buttons do rattle a bit on shake, but overall happy with fit and finish. I have some Kager T2's coming in soon so I will be able to test using the ego connection as well. Super solid device.
I've had mine about a month and love it. It is my #1 device. Have 2 other vv box mods, too. I have dropped it twice onto my concrete porch from over 4' and no issues. The fire button is solid. I do notice a bit of sputtering when the battery is nearingn 3.4 volts, at which time it shuts down. Am watching for a sale to get a 2nd one. It's the chromed brass one. Very solid.
Received mine a few days ago.. Wanted to try it out for a bit before posting anything.
EDIT: Please forgive the long post. I was aiming for a quickie, but as I always do, got excited and this wall of text came out. Apologies, skip on through if you don't really care about the Lambo 4.0.
First impressions are good, really seems like a solid design, it's heavier than L-Rider's first two versions and feels good in your hand, but only time will tell how well the finish and overall build quality resist everyday use (especially with a guy whose superpower seems to be acid palm sweat ).
But let's address some of the specs posted alongside the Lambo 4.0 in some vendors' sites. I am not an electrical engineer so take this with a grain of salt and please correct me if I'm wrong.
-- PWM: as far as I understand, when a circuit uses pulse-width modulation the output voltage is a waveform, pulse train in the cases of most VV PWM mods I believe, ie it's not a "steady" DC signal, and it's therefor virtually impossible to check output voltage with a multimeter/voltmeter, you'd need an oscilloscope. If this is correct then I can confirm that the Lambo 4.0 does not use PWM.
-- Amp limit: I can post all the numbers I got through my testing if anyone is interested (and since I measured Ohms, Amperage and Voltage for 2 different setups at multiple voltage settings with both a full battery and a low-charge battery they amount to a bit of data -- I will post them if anyone wants to see them, though, just let me know). Through my testing I couldn't push the unit higher than 2.57 amps with a total resistance load of 1.7 Ohm (my multimeter adds roughly 0.3 Ohm to the overall resistance when checked, when firing I get the feeling the resistance kinda drops back to 1.4 or close, netting numbers in compliance with Ohm's Law) when I set the voltage to 4.2V and 5.0V (though actual max voltage under load was roughly 3.6V). So it seems the Lambo 4.0's maximum continuous discharge is 2.5 amps, not the 3.5 advertised.
-- Voltage drop under load: I got mixed results with my tests. It seems that when the resistance is either high (3 Ohm) or low (1.5 Ohm) the unit stresses out a bit more. On the lower end of the resistance "spectrum", this happens because of the 2.5 amp limit of the circuitry, but I can't think of what might be holding it back when you go the high resistance road -- amperage is low enough for it to be able to push the voltage to what you set it to, but it doesn't quite make it. However, in the resistance range of the attys I usually buy, 2.0-2.4 Ohm, and my target sweet spot in terms of vapor temp, throat hit and flavor, I found the Lambo 4.0 to be pretty darn good. With a full battery, voltage delivered under load is pretty much dead on from 3.0V to 5.2V -- with my AW IMR at or below 3.7V (and with most IMRs I've used, especially with VV mods, 3.5V is the lowest you can get, and some people say this is as low as you should go, before the unit shuts down -- not the theoretical 3.2V) the voltage delivered under load stays spot on all the way up to, and including, 4.6-4.7V. Which should mean that with a 2.0-2.4 Ohm load, and a set voltage between 3.0V and 4.7V, you should be able to vape the entire battery's charge and not feel a drop in performance. Real life usage seems to confirm this so far. Compared to the original L-Rider model (which, even with a full battery, suffered voltage drops when under load ranging from 0.2V to 0.5V and getting worse as the battery's charge went down), this circuitry holds up quite nicely..
-- Max Voltage: only paid attention to this because somewhere (tried to find the post again so I could link but couldn't find it, sorry) someone posted the ref number of the TI chip being used in this 'tube (can't remember that either, sorry) and looking at the specs, output voltage interval was 2.5-5.5V which should mean it won't go to 6V. Now, I don't know if indeed the chip posted is the one being used in the Lambo 4.0 but I couldn't get it to go above 5.25V under load regardless resistance, so there may be some truth to it.
-- Reading resistance: not sure I'm a fan of how they implemented it (you press the fire/activation button 5 times within a 3 second period) it'll depend on how this button behaves over time. On the original v1 'tube, the button got so unmanageable after a couple of months that I wasn't too excited when I read that they had tied this function to that button, of all buttons. Aside from that, it works pretty well and accurately.
-- Additional note on the fire button: As I said above, L-Rider's original v1 'tube had a button that tended to start sticking and then go wacko after a couple of weeks of usage. Since I was too lazy to try and do something about it, and since access to the innards of the button is damn near impossible without disassembling the unit, I waited too long to try and clean it and when I did, using only isopropanol, it didn't really do much, the effect didn't last long, and I get the feeling the electronics got a bit screwy after that. This button might have the same problem but looking at the inside of the tube, at least this time, the actual button's contacts seem to be more exposed, as in, you can actually see them as opposed to them being sunk beneath the plastic wall separating the battery compartment from the electronics compartment, which could mean maintaining the Lambo 4.0's fire button in tip-top shape will be easier this time around, a quick spray with a good contact cleaner (just make sure it's safe to use around plastic) every now and then and you should be set. Be that as it may, though, and I admit that there is a good dose of wishful thinking on my part in my remarks above, it would be nice if they had come up with a button design that simply did not require maintenance or one where maintenance and even replacement was an easy job even for the less technically inclined.
-- Display: I know many people really enjoy Young-June's screen, with the battery level indication in bars, the sign for Ohm and Voltage etc, but to me it always seemed a bit cramped. This is a matter of personal preference and mine is probably highly biased from having used L-Rider's v1 for almost a year now, but I love the simplicity of it. On the Lambo 4.0 it seems like they've punched up the brightness and contrast a little bit and, unlike the Young-June models, I can actually read the numbers at arm's length without my glasses on, which is really useful to me (I have hyperopia, so resolution of details gets better at arm's length, but I've never been able to do this with the original LT and YJ's versions cramp so much info into that tiny display that I can't tell one thing from another -- on the Lambo 4.0 I can read both numbers and the dot quite clearly). Oh, and another personal preference is being able to check the actual charge on the battery (read: difference in potential between poles, voltage), something they luckily didn't change from v1, as opposed to the "3 bars remaining" style YJ went with.
-- Connection: I've been using Vivi Novas for a while now and don't plan on stopping so reading that I'd need an adapter with the Lambo 4.0 (this was after I had already ordered it) was kind of a downer for me. I think I'm onto something in terms of the culprit -- the way I see it, it's the floating/spring-loaded positive pin. Nifty idea but a poor implementation, I guess. The pin is too thin and with the Vivi Novas what I think is happening is that the pin is riding up inside the Nova's positive "well" until it gets stuck as you screw the Nova in. By this point, you've gotten the pin so tightly jammed inside the Nova's positive "cylinder" that it essentially seals it -- you see, on the Novas, the positive "pin"/post is hollow (it has to be) so that air can get into the atty area. Since the Novas seem to use two rubber washers to isolate the positive post from the body (which acts as the ground) there's no air getting into the tank between the positive post and the bigger outer cylinder with the 510 threading, it has to go through the positive pin -- but with the Lambo's spring-loaded pin jammed inside of it, air just won't get through. I'm thinking about a way to fit a sort of a "metal hat" to the Lambo's positive pin so that it connects with the tank's positive right at the base, as most other connections do. That way, air should flow through easily with a draw comparable to what you get on just about any other mod. Same goes for the excessively open draw when you fit a normal atty on it -- the hole on the bottom of the positive of an atty has a smaller diameter than that of the Nova so the pin shouldn't be able to fit inside it on most attys. But since the Lambo's pin is kind of "pitch-forked" at the end, instead of the normal base for the pin which is wide and smooth and typically closes that hole (very few air is supposed to be going through it, most of it is coming from the sides -- the Nova does this too, but the air is then "collected" by the hollow center pin, which is why its sides stick out a bit but not all the way around, so that even when it sits on a typical flat connection, there are still those two pathways for the air to flow through), with the Lambo's forked pin, air does get in through that bigger bottom hole -- a lot more air than what you need. So for both these situations, if/when I can find a decent way to put a "flat top hat" on the spring-loaded pin, I'm pretty confident I can do away with using adapters with both the Nova and regular attys -- stay tuned. My only remaining doubt is if the Nova's body itself, when fully screwed in, as it sits on the lip of the outside rim of the connection, will or won't create another near-vacuum situation in terms of draw, but barring that, I'm sure a simple tweak to the pin will solve the issue. I don't have any CE4s or any other tank/atty with a eGo-style connection so I can't comment on how well it works with this Lambo (seems like previous L-Rider's attempts at fitting an eGo-compatible connection weren't fully successful).
Pretty sure I had more to say but can't remember anything else at the moment and the post is long enough as is (sorry again). Final thoughts for now:
-- I do realize I've had very little time and experience with the Lambo 4.0 to properly review this product, so please consider all of the above as "first impressions". I can't speak to the durability of anything in it as most things tend to happen a few weeks (sometimes months) down the line. It does appear to be of a better build quality than the previous L-Rider version and for me, aside from that misbehaving fire button and the plastic end caps of the v1 which cracked and finally broke apart a few weeks in, the v1 was pretty well built. Took a whole lot of abuse, very nearly fell apart on me (especially after the top cap broke) a number of times, especially after a fall, and once put back together, as long as the gods of the darn button allowed it, it friggin' worked. Can't count the times I thought I'd finally killed it only to see it come back to "life". Also, the finish on the original was so good that even after all the scratches it got (from falls, rolling around inside pockets with my keys, etc) even for a guy like me that seems to exude acid through my palms, it held on very nicely, only fading a bit over time (I had the black model). In contrast, that simple Bauway 510-N mod with a chrome/nickel-plated look to it, started to corrode on me after just 5 weeks of use, and no more than 2 weeks later you could see exactly how I held it as those areas were completely coppery in color -- in contrast I had the original LT for almost 11 months.
The above and the fact that for my target wattage, vapor temp, throat hit and flavor, and the resistances I use with the attys/cartos/tanks I buy (2.0-2.4 Ohm at 4.2-4.5V for roughly 8.2-8.4 Watts) this Lambo 4.0, although quite definitely very short on a number of the promises made in the "specs" posted alongside the product in a couple of shops, it nevertheless does the job for me -- feels like it was tuned to my sweet spot. That and my feeling that I can solve the draw issue and the fact that I really don't want to go with a YJ at the moment, not until the Vavg vs Vrms debacle is done and people stop complaining about the finish coming off, etc, personally I feel a lot better sticking with this model for now. It's a lot better than my v1, feels great and with my v1 looking like a geriatric patient on the final days of a really nasty terminal disease, it's certainly better than nothing -- and going back to mechanical mods just isn't going to do it for me.
Since it falls short of the advertised claims I could just simply return it, but after having tried it, I feel I'm better off with this model than with most I've seen reviewed these past few months (including Volcano's whose build quality I won't question, but whose aesthetics of their upcoming Lavatube 2.0 are just too damn ugly for my taste, to the point of actually looking like that stereotypical plastic crap people associate with "Made in China" -- just my opinion, though, and just as far as how it looks, at least in pictures and in the review I watched).
-- my two cents, comments and criticism welcomed
Terrific review. Balanced, thorough, and informative. I especially like what I perceive as your not having an ax to grind against L-Rider, but also not glossing over or sugar-coating the flaws.
The device might employ PWM. Not saying it does, since I don't know, but the mere fact that an inline voltage display gives voltage readings isn't proof that it's constant current rather than pulsed. Well-filtered PWM circuits are "readable" (for average voltage) by the inline voltage displays sold by Madvapes and other vendors. The key is in the output filtering. For instance, ProVari uses PWM, but you'd never know it, because it's well-filtered.
I have two personal reasons for steering clear of the new generation L-Rider Vtubes. First is the spring-loaded positive pin. As far as i know, it's not sealed (opening the possibility of juice leaks into the internal electronics), and the way the spring-loaded pin is manufactured isn't up the long-term stress requirements. Second is what you mentioned---the implementation of resistance checking seems suspect to me in terms of wear and tear on the firing button. Not smart, given L-Rider's history of intermittent firing problems with some of the first generation Lavatubes.
I'm not saying that Young-June Vtubes are better than L-Rider, although I personally prefer the Young-June versions. I like how they implement resistance checking/current voltage setting/battery remaining graphic all displayed with a single click of the power button. That said, one of the three I own (a Y-J chrome v2.0) did die after three months. Sadly, all Vtubes are still in the realm of "you-get-what-you-pay-for," either in reduced performance or fair odds of shortened longevity.
Thanks, though I think I did give L-Rider too much of a break on some things. Was really torn on whether to return it or not, but it felt good enough that I ended up keeping it. Time will tell if/when I'll regret that decision.
I get that but I really don't think this is the case, the chip I read somewhere was being used in this model isn't PWM, and I seriously doubt they'd bother to filter it so well while neglecting so many other aspects. Still, you might be right for all I know.
I hear ya, that firing button was a nightmare, hope this one is better designed. As for the spring-loaded positive pin: I can't vouch for how well it is "sealed", it does have a decent looking washer around it, but since the thing was designed to allow motion, I don't doubt some juice will eventually trickle through. Don't know if they've somehow isolated the electronics on the other side of the connection, ie, if they created a small chamber around the base of the spring-loaded mechanism that would collect any juice and prevent it from reaching the electronics, but at the very least I can see problems with shorts when enough juice has seeped through. I've seen juice find its way through a solidly sealed connection before so...
Agreed on the simplicity of checking resistance, which then switches to current set voltage, all with a single press of the power button. On the other hand, not sold at all on the 5-bar battery indicator, I really like knowing the exact voltage left on the battery. Also no locking voltage (never found it useful until this model but with this one, just setting it down somewhere can knock my set voltage a couple of decimals either way), no quick battery change and it still "remembers" its previous settings (small capacitor in the circuit) though this is a pretty minimal thing.
My thing with YJ is the PWM "problem" that people found out, the Vavg vs Vrms thing.. If setting 3.5V nets you actual 4.8V under load, then with most of my gear I'd have to set it at 3.0V and still it might be too much. When the Vrms tuned models start coming out I'll be sure to give one a go.
According to Rader---the resident engineer in these threads---all switching regulators use PWM. I have no idea if linear regulators do too.
Yes, I've seen the video pleading for correction of this Vavg versus Vrms interpolation problem, and I've read at least one thread about it, maybe more (I can't remember right now). The two devices I own that obviously "run hot" (meaning that they suffer from Vavg mis-calibration of voltage that is considerably higher to the atty/carto than the setting displayed) are a SmokTech Vmax V2 and an Ovale V8. While both devices are fine in other ways, I really don't like having to keep a second set of voltage-resistance equations in my head, especially since the Vavg mis-calibration isn't linear, but more pronounced in the 3-4 volt range and less so in the 5+ volt range.
That turns out to be what I most appreciate about my ProVari. No voltage drop and, on the other end, no stealth voltage increase, either. What you set is what you get. Same with my Penguin tin VV mod with the Okami OKR/t6 regulator. Both devices are rock solid, and the vape is consistently what I expect (i.e., what it should be).
Oddly enough, I haven't noticed the PWM mis-calibration problem with any of my three Young-June Vtubes (two black v1.5t tubes and a recently deceased Chrome v2.0). I did a little comparison testing at one point contrasting the subjective vape of the Vtubes against the ProVari and a Madvapes VV box in the 4-5 volt range, and my anecdotal experience was that they all seemed very similar to me at the same voltage settings using the same carto. At least I couldn't discern the Y-J Vtubes producing a higher-voltage (i.e., "hotter") vaping experience.
I'm not asserting that the Young-June Vtubes don't have the problem, since I don't know that for sure, but I never set my Vmax or Ovale V8 higher than 3.6 volts (even using a 2.5-2.7 ohm carto/clearo, and usually I vape both devices at 3.0-3.3 volts) while I routinely set my Vtubes to 4.4-4.8 volts for the same cartos.
I've been using the lambo 4.0 for about 3 months now and it is a solid device I'm nit sure about my numbers tho since I don't have a scope ect... to take measurements with. I can say that so far it has performed consistently with everything thing I've put on it. Currently using a pheonix clone RA at 2 ohms around 4.2-4.5v and a did clone at 1.5 ohms 3.7-4.2v both giving great flavor tons of vapor. This unit is sturdy I am very careful with my toys but I gave dropped this a few times by accident one from a height of about 3ft outside on gravel driveway it survived and still works great. I haven't noticed any decline in performance over the life of the battery. It seems to give me consistent vapes til I need to replace it with a fresh one. The buttons are solid and the fire/resistance check button is nice and clicky over a well built pv.To sum it up it's a solid device that will last the user a long time I got mine from AquaVaporCigs and it's definitely an LRider product original. Hope my ramblings help you out and I'm not to late with my two cents.
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