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E-Cigs are a "tobacco product", but what happens when they are NOT?

Discussion in 'Legislation News' started by daveesl, Oct 16, 2011.

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  1. daveesl

    daveesl Full Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    When the FDA lost its Court battle it was allowed to put e-cigs under the category of tobacco products. So of course that means that they will find some way to get all kinds of weird regulations to control them. But here is the interesting thing, this entire ruling is based on the idea that nicotine comes from tobacco, which of course it does. But it doesn't have to.

    Eggplants contain the second highest level of nicotine ng/g, following that is spinach, green tomatoes and numerous other common vegetables, tubers and fruits, including the lowly potato.

    While it would take far more pounds of eggplant to produce the same amount of nicotine as tobacco, it isn't a totally insane number and organics such as spinach and tomatoes can also be used. Thus, if the nicotine portion of the liquid is not derived from tobacco, then the FDA and therefore the bans can no longer hold up. What, is the government going to try to ban/control everything that contains nicotine? Good luck on that one, because then you are regulating simple, common food products, and not the "evil" tobacco plant.

    I would love to see a company come out with a nicotine juice that is not created from tobacco. The FDA, under its present guidelines and regulatory powers could not do anything. The existing bans would be meaningless. And finally, it would be interesting to find out if one can distinguish nicotine derived from an eggplant with nicotine derived from the "horrible, devil weed-tobacco".

  2. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    If the juice doesn't come from tobacco, the FDA can confiscate that particular liquid as a component of a drug delivery device.

    The fact that nicotine is derived from tobacco is not what damned us, it's what saved us.
  3. daveesl

    daveesl Full Member

    Sep 26, 2011
    Once again, it goes back to nicotine is a naturally occurring substance that exists in a multitude of organic products that we use daily. Nicotine itself is not illegal and it would be almost impossible to make it illegal.
  4. Thulium

    Thulium Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    If you want an e-cig that is not a tobacco product, there's no need to go through all that trouble--just use 0-nic! (if you need it, get your nicotine elsewhere) While that seems a bit facetious, that's exactly what all our Canadian friends have to do. Its inconvenient and stupid that they have to bother with the technicalities, but Canada is a decent example of what happens when the government "bans" e-cigs: Its an inconvenience and fewer people quit smoking by switching to e-cigs than might if the government was actually interested in reducing the deaths and diseases caused by smoking...but it doesn't stop the spread of information about tobacco harm reduction, it just slows it a bit.
  5. Stubby

    Stubby Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Madison, WI USA
    This from Wikipedia

    It would take an insane amount to eggplants to extract the nicotine needed. This subject seems to come up quite often. A few moments on google is all it takes.
  6. Vap0rJay

    Vap0rJay Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 22, 2011
    MMMMM... Think of all that eggplant parmesan though! ;)
  7. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    From my understanding, the FDA regulates nicotine regardless of the source. That's why it could ban nicotine water and hand lotion in the past - before the passing of the FSTPCA actually gave it regulatory control over tobacco products. It had nothing to do with where the nicotine came from, just that the FDA considers all nicotine not delivered through tobacco use a drug that may be used only for smoking cessation - when approved as a smoking cessation treatment by the FDA and only after extensive and expensive drug trials. This is what the FDA tried to claim e-cigarettes are - unapproved drug delivery devices. So, getting the nicotine from other plants wouldn't make any difference.

    As far as the FDA is concerned, nicotine, regardless of the source, is one of two things - tobacco or drug treatment requiring FDA approval.
  8. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    And in each case, considered evil.
  9. Vap0rJay

    Vap0rJay Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 22, 2011
    And they better get paid either way $
    Gotcha coming, going, and every in between $

    But rest assured citizen, your tax dollars are going to be well spent on expensive programs that don’t do anything but bring in MORE royalties for even MORE money to spend frugally.
  10. ChodaBoy

    ChodaBoy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2011
    The government, FDA or otherwise, has to have their hands in everything. Especially anything that would take money from one of their biggest contributors. Even if we were talking about electric cars you could find legislation that slowed it down or made it more expensive to make happen. I just wish we had more politicians that were constitutionist, and less like they money grubbers we have now. Maybe i should have posted this comment in political lmao
  11. Freddytk421

    Freddytk421 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 25, 2011
    Start cross breeding eggplant strains for more nicotine and maybe our kids can have some eggplant nicotine at a deal. or they could just chop up a few genes and splice the nuclea and junk.
  12. Doc.js

    Doc.js Full Member

    Oct 29, 2011
    Regarless of the logic the government and government agencies use to tax or ban personal vaporizers, we are going to have to get off of our collective butts and educate these people. They are not pv users and only know what they are told about them. It is up to us to, not raise hell about it, but educate them as to the true posative aspects, and false second-hand dangers. Be vocal! Writing letters is the most respected method of communicating with the lawmakers. Do us all a favor and take the initiative and time to write your representatives.
  13. JD4x4

    JD4x4 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 21, 2012
    Thanks for this post .. I guess. :(
    This clears up what has been eating away at me ever since I discovered PVs. My viewpoint was the same as the OP's, now only to find out that the repressive box we're in is as big as I had feared. <sigh>

    But thanks for your direct and to the point info. Now at least I won't waste too much time barking up the not-tobacco angle with legislators but instead devote my energy to harm reduction, no proven 'cost to society', and to adult personal freedoms.
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