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E-smoking could be worse than real cigarettes

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by nonamebrand, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. nonamebrand

    nonamebrand Full Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    This is one of the first things people (mostly smokers) say to me when they see my 901 or I bring up the subject of e-smoking. These days I'm getting kinda peed off, because of the "I told you so" attitude I'm getting from people when I mention how e-smoking is being cracked down on in Canada. I'm feeling a lot of bad vibes from analog smokers. It's funny because there used to be two groups: smokers vs. I feel as if there's: vapers vs. smokers vs. antis.

    A smoker told me today that we know nothing about e-smoking so that's why he never got into it. The Canada crack-down makes total sense to him. I hear a lot of speculation from smokers I talk to. For example, the batteries could cause cancer, there could be something in the atomizer that causes something 10x worse than real cancer, glycerine could mess up your lungs, you can't trust products from China, etc.

    I can't deny any of those speculations, anything's possible. Today I had 2 non-smokers and that 1 smoker rallying up against me. I was getting really frustrated.

    How would you defend yourself against those speculations?
  2. Huxley

    Huxley Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 13, 2009
    Common sense tells me that to stop inhaling burnt tobacco with all it's associated toxins and carcinogens has to be a good thing. All we know for sure in such an argument is that analogs kill you. I already feel better and my life is better in many ways since I stopped the analogs and took up vaping, so I can only speak from that perspective.

    It really is a huge leap in logic from saying that the data doesn't yet exist to demonstrate that these devices are safe to saying that they are as bad, or worse, than analogs. We only know for sure that analogs are killers. We don't know that about e-cigs. My instincts and personal experience tell me that they are not as bad for me as analogs, and may well do me no harm at all, and that'll do for me. I've made my choice.

    It is strange that smokers seem unduly threatened by e-cigs though.
  3. Grandma Cas

    Grandma Cas Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2009
    Chesham UK
    Tell them fine, do what you think best but, I'll be sure to come to your funeral & say "I told you so".:rolleyes:
  4. Moonlightcsp

    Moonlightcsp Full Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 5, 2009
    New Brunswick CANADA
    Pure ignorance, are people totally brainwashed!! very sad
  5. OutWest

    OutWest Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 8, 2009
    Oklahoma USA
    If theyre worried about products from China, they'd better stop buying foods and prescription medicines. Many foods and prescription meds have ingredients that are made in China. I dont know about Canada, but here in the U.S. the only time they have to label foods with country of origin is when it's a single ingredient food (such as produce). Foods with multiple ingredients are exempt from country of origin requirements because the ingredients often come from a variety of countries. (ie: the sugar in an item may be a mix of sugar from both the U.S. and Brazil)

    Batteries - how are you going to get cancer from those? Are you eating them?

    Glycol - it's approved for use in inhalers. That doesnt mean it's safe, but it does mean that the govt considers it safe-enough.
  6. nonamebrand

    nonamebrand Full Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    I get the impression from a lot of anti-esmokers that I talk to, that they are expecting some sort of major flaw with e-cigarettes. That there is some of sort doomsday element hidden in e-smoking that is going to send all of us guinea pigs to an early grave.
  7. Lakota

    Lakota Full Member

    Mar 13, 2009
    No way to defend ourselves to non smokers in my opinion other than I am trying to quit and this is my route.

    I find the smokers quote above most amusing. That said, what is his excuse for smoking with all we do know about it's lethal effects? No guilt felt that to keep smoking you will ultimately be a burden on the health care system, and emotionally devastate his loved ones that must watch his painful demise when lung cancer sets in.
  8. UkUsa

    UkUsa Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2008
    Smalltown Iowa, USA
    I guess i'm lucky i haven't come across any real anti PV sentiments yet. All the guys at work are fine with it. I talk with one of them about possible mods. Another is thinking of getting his brother one for his birthday. All of them are non smokers.

    The way i see it and justify it is -
    Smoke analogs with all the known chemicals and carcinogens plus all the known health risks to me and the people around me.

    Or i vap a substance that is already approved for used in a lot of products, and i believe has not been classsified as a carcinogen. Smells lots better, tastes better, is cheaper (for now).

    Obviously them real anti smokers will just say "why don't you just quit ".

    I do believe that most smokers want to quit but as we all know that is easier said then done. So until that time there is some kind of magic pill with no side effects and actually works as good as PVs do, why not play the odds and reduce the possible harm to you and others around you ?

    A lot of people are scared by the unknown. Personally i enjoy a little unknown. You need to step off the marked trail every once in a while. If it doesn't effect anyone else and i could possibly be doing something good for my health then sorry, but i don't really care what you think of it i'm going to do it.

    I think that nicowolf's sig line sums it up "my body, my addiction"!!
  9. nonamebrand

    nonamebrand Full Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    Basically when I said analogs are proven to give cancer, he said e-cigarettes could be 10 times worse. And that's not the first time I've heard something like that in a face to face conversation with a smoker.
  10. OutWest

    OutWest Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 8, 2009
    Oklahoma USA
    there's not much that would be worse than cancer - it's a miserable way to die. Father died from lung cancer.
  11. flexy123

    flexy123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    fact is, we dont know. There are some preliminary test out (the NZ report, just to name it)...but its not enough. Since its my/our health i am interested.

    Wouldnt make sense to smoke e-cigs just to find out its as dangerous as anas? The argument in regards to the atomizer seemed legit to me since the thought of inhaling something right off a glowing metal mesh (without a filter) seems "odd" to me.

    I can be totally wrong...but we NEED that testing and until then everything is speculation and wishful thinking.
  12. somberbear

    somberbear Full Member

    Mar 15, 2009
    laugh , laugh and enjoy your ecig.... people are scared from what they dont know. and ecigs havnt been around long enough to be accepted.... god knows we accept some pretty bad drugs.... Also ecigs promise is too good to be true. and in some ways it is i think. some claims are outta site. etc.

    the hatred of smoking is so bad any thing that imitates the act is attacked. so no win there. i would say "can you smell it? if you cant then i dont see a problem"

    no second hand smoke , no smell , no real trash - non smokers (some bad apples) hate that they cant control your life or look down on you.

    as for smokers , reactionary. taking something familuar and known away from some one. and replacing it with tons of new info , and money out lay , and no common knowledge about. its like cars , cars scared people when they first saw them now look.

    heres how i look at it, my whole family has been on my back for years, with out a smell , smoke etc. they leave me alone now. so i think these are definatly a plus to every one else and not just myself.

    if your going to keep talking about it, then you need to read up and be an informitive and as accurate as you can, if nothing else but giving people a url.

    while the device its self has no studys done on it , the application is not new infact there are sevearl nicotine inhailers eather in development or on the market. some using the same system apparently or a more advanced method, but you dont wanna see what these medications cost.

    if batterys gave you cancer i am sure there would be a vibrator warning or a million other battery powered devices close to your bits would be labled.

    PG/AG are very very common substances in about every thing out there... some devices have been approved for medical delivery using atomized pg... yea i agree this is the hard one, i dont know eather but indications is that with light use it is perfictly ok. (and its gotta be better then a cig)

    getting stuff from china is always a guess honestly , if it will work. but it cant be any worst then the chinese food i buy already , or the millions of other chinese products around us.

    basicly you need to research up and be proud , when they gang up on you just keep going. tell em to go look it up and see for themselves.

    hehe sorry to be long winded but its happend to me, at first it made me stammer and figure out what to say, then i did research. and just talking to people not pushing it they asked me. i have gotten the nod of approval from many people.

    PS. you can always say they are ganging up on ya cause they want a smoke (seriously i found out this is the reason before) and watching some one smoke even a metal cig makes them need one....
  13. flexy123

    flexy123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    besides...screw the smokers or other "anti e-smokers".

    IF it turns out that e-smoking is in fact as healthy as we all think/wish...(and the likelihood does indeed exist!) no one in his right mind will smoke anas 5 years from now. Because its a frickin' revolution. All it needs is that "official" seal of approval. And you will see this explode and eliminate anas/the old way of smoking in very little time. I have no doubt.
  14. Terrie

    Terrie Full Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 21, 2009
    Most of my friends and family who smoked are now using e-cigs and think they are wonderful. However I do have 2 smoker friends who are leery of them. The one guy does not have much interest in quitting and sees the device as some silly novelty item. (well, his wife just got an e-cig yesterday and has not had a cigarette let's see whether his opinion changes) Another friend of mine coughs and wheezes alot, but is leery of e-cigs because they come from China and she doesn't know what's in them. I pointed out to her how the analog cigs have 4000+ ingredients, 60 of them known to cause cancer (and how propylene glycol,nicotine and flavorings are already in the cigarettes she's smoking) I think the real reason some smokers are leery of them is because they have no interest in quitting, so they get a little defensive about being introduced to any product they think is some type of quit-smoking aid. Anyway, to each his own. As for me I'd much rather take my chances with untested e-cigs then with the analogs that have been proven to kill.
  15. Ramblin

    Ramblin Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 26, 2009
    Columbia, Missouri
    How many drugs have passed FDA's scrutiny only to provide very good living for lawyers suing the drug companies later?

    I seem to see TV adverts for lawyers seeking claimants for class action lawsuits against the makers of medications that I have never even heard of.

    It's your own choice. If you are worried, quit using tobacco and PVDs entirely. I personally would rather die than live in a world where every possible risk has been removed. Sounds like being locked in confinement in a rubber room.

    Common sense tells me that using PVDs to handle my nicotine addiction is massively more healthy than continuing to smoke tobacco.
  16. nonamebrand

    nonamebrand Full Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    What's worse than cancer? Not much disease wise I'd say. But the counter attack to this one is, "Well what if e-smoking has a higher rate of giving cancer?".

    As for the atomiser argument. I think he was referring to the atomiser releasing small bits of whatever it happens to made of into our bodies. What can I say there? It's possible. Sadly for now, your imagination is the limit when it comes to picking at the *possible* negatives of e-cigarettes.

    somberbear has some pretty good points too. A lot of it is reactionary I think. As smokers we defended our choice to smoke, I guess like we now defend our choices to vape instead. I feel actually very defensive when I hear negative things about vaping and now I'm slamming smoking. Interesting how things can change.

    Right I'm going to have to be accurately informed. I'm going to start reading the more technical/specific findings, so I back myself up better in the future. I do not want to get gang-banged again like yesterday.

    ^^^ this one cracked me up, I gotta remember this one.
  17. Vapor Pete

    Vapor Pete The Vapor Pope ECF Veteran

    Mar 14, 2009
    Rochester, NY
    Nonamebrand, when you get the comment," yeah, but e-cigs could be 10 times worse!" say, "Since e-cigs have not been proven to be worse, you, as you smoke your tobacco, are smoking something that actually IS 10 times worse than an e-cig."
    And then watch him drive off in his SUV, which is 10 times more likely to kill him in a roll over than a compact car.

  18. kishd

    kishd Full Member

    Feb 19, 2009
    South Africa
    Having smoked analogues for nearly thirty years and now switching to vaping only (6 weeks) I do feel a lot better than I did while smoking the analogues.

    However there a some points to bear in mind.
    There is no real proof that ETS (enviromental tobacco smoke) indeed does cause harm.

    There is a statistically significant relationship between smoking and lung cancer, but the increase in incidence in lung cancer is small and only becomes apparent in people over the age of 70 years. So tobacco is probably a killer of old people.

    Some studies on deep vein thrombosis (clots in the legs) after operations showed that smokers were less likely to suffer clots than non-smokers.

    There is a decreased incidence of Alzheimers Disease in smokers.

    The reason that I mention this is that though smoking is harmful the dangers have been greatly exagerated to enable control and taxation on the smoking population.

    Switching between vaping and smoking should be regarded as a choice and not really a comparison of which is more harmful.

    I say this because all the diseases that are attributed to smoking occur in people who have never smoked as well and the link between smoking and disease is based on statistics and we all know that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
  19. esmok-e

    esmok-e Moved On

    FDA game show tickets are high. Big Pharm are the players. They can afford it. They budget for it. Compared to the profits they make, the lawsuits are chump change. Cost of doing business. Built in to the business plan. Same with Big Tobacco. With all the lawsuits that are almost an automatic win for the deathly sick or dead users you would think they would be out of business or get a bailout or at least a new CEO. This is paid for by Health Plans, Medicaid - your wages and taxes.....
  20. JustJulie

    JustJulie CASAA Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 30, 2009
    Des Moines, IA
    Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

    I can't count the number of times I'd have a former smoker tell me about how he quit using XYZ or ABC. Lord, I tried them all. At first, I tried with hope and excitement . . . eventually, though, it became an exercise in futility. And towards the very end when my friends and family would start in with, "You really need to quit," I'd pretty much shut down.

    Yeah, they're worried about the safety, but the truth is that they really don't want to think too hard about how horribly unsafe tobacco smoking is because they know they can't quit or they simply don't want to quit.

    I've only had a very few people say that vaping could be worse than smoking. I said something along the lines of, "You could very well be right that vaping is dangerous. But I KNOW smoking is dangerous, so to me, this is a reasonable risk. To each their own."

    For the most part, though, I've found people pretty accepting.
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