Ecigs Worse than Cigarettes Says Local Man

[Mikex123]

I would like to add that I am EXTREMELY happy that I found out about ecigs. I am 27 years old i smoked analogs for 10 years, and lately I have felt that the analogs had finally caught up to me and started stealing my vitality. Now I have cool shiny PVs, I have starting to play with rebuildables, not only is my health improving but I am having fun along the way (I love to tinker around with things, especially if they have practical use)

I will definitely be contributing to CASAA

 

[Baldr]

I find it kinda shocking all the negative press about ecigs.

$$$

That's it, in a nutshell.

Cigs get heavily taxed. It's a huge industry with lots of lawyers, lots of lobyists, lots of tax money, and lots of politicians heavily involved. Many of the health associations which claim to be trying to end cig smoking are funding in large part by cigarette taxes. If e-cigs take over the market, and don't get heavily regulated, then the funding for the American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society and similar will be drastically reduced.

Big Pharmacy doesn't want it - it competes with the patch, and their various nicotine replacement items, chantix, etc.

So all the bad press is tied to $$$.

What big tobacco wants is to regulate it - for our safety. And since they have the big bucks, and are used to being heavily taxed (passed on to you and me, of course) they want to regulate the market. They'll regulate all the small companies out of business. They'll get rid of refillable tanks and make us pay for pre-filled cartridges. It'll be drastically more expensive than it is now, and it'll be heavily taxed, and they don't give a damn about the people who vape, or those who could quit smoking if it weren't for all the lies in the press.

 

[CKCalmer]

I wonder how many people out there are just like me, having never committed a crime in their lives, but will not hesitate to start up a .................. to circumvent unjust regulation or taxation.

The only reason I would make such a dramatic shift in my life is because I feel certain that vaping is already measurably improving lives and preventing smoking-related deaths, and will save the lives of many MILLIONS of people in the years to come.

I'd be fine with regulations that require ingredients and warning labels to be placed on e-liquid bottles in order to protect children and pets. And I'd be OK with the REASONABLE taxation of e-liquids, vaping devices and related supplies.

But if the government goes overboard by restricting vaping so harshly that its ability to improve people's lives and prevent smoking-related deaths is significantly impeded, then I will become an outlaw quicker than the time it took me to write this post.
____________

EDIT: The post immediately after this one, by Anjaffm, has pointed out a flaw in my position as described above. I posted a concession on page 7 of this thread, but left the content of this post (above the line) unedited to maintain continuity of the thread. And again, thank you to Anjaffm for graciously setting me straight.

 

[Anjaffm]

@CKCalmer:

I basically agree. I will also vape "underground" instead of going back to tobacco.
And no, I will not feel like an "evil criminal" any more than the customers of speakeasies did during Prohibition

But what do you mean by "reasonable taxation"?
The buyer already pays sales tax and VAT. Like on any consumer product he / she purchases.
There is no reason whatsoever for additional taxation. To levy a "sin tax" you need a product that is a "sin (alcohol, cigarettes, gasoline... CO2, atmosphere, blather blather..). Vaping causes no harm. Not to the user, not to bystanders, not to the environment.
Ergo: there is no reason for additional taxation. Except, of course, government greed.

 

[choochoogranny]

CKCalmer, hubby and I are with you! Why we're as quick as "white lightening" and have the time to find the back roads.

 

[Bunnykiller]

It's crazy. The FIRST two close friends (!!!) I told about my quitting via vaping had something to say about PG and antifreeze. It's like their knee-jerk instinct was to berate/question my attempt to quit.

Thankfully one of my friends is now so psyched that I quit smoking, she suddenly only has positive anecdotes about what she's seen first-hand from one other vaper she knows. The other friend is still a smoker, but she is younger than me, and probably thinks she is going to live forever (as I did at her age).

just tell them anti-freeze is bad for cats only...

 

[AndriaD]

Well I've already been practicing civil disobedience for 30 yrs with that other stuff that's perfectly harmless but the gov't says is "baaaaaaaaad", so I won't have any problem extending that to vaping. What's really funny and sad at the same time is that other stuff becoming more and more acceptable, just when they're making a new scapegoat out of e-cigs.

Andria

 

[Robino1]

@CKCalmer:

I basically agree. I will also vape "underground" instead of going back to tobacco.
And no, I will not feel like an "evil criminal" any more than the customers of speakeasies did during Prohibition

But what do you mean by "reasonable taxation"?
The buyer already pays sales tax and VAT. Like on any consumer product he / she purchases.
There is no reason whatsoever for additional taxation. To levy a "sin tax" you need a product that is a "sin (alcohol, cigarettes, gasoline... CO2, atmosphere, blather blather..). Vaping causes no harm. Not to the user, not to bystanders, not to the environment.
Ergo: there is no reason for additional taxation. Except, of course, government greed.

Almost everything I buy online is not taxed. Granted I only buy liquids at this point but they are not taxed.....yet.

ETA: Just double checked my packing slip to be absolutely sure..... Listed:

Sub-total $126.00
Shipping $4.00

Amount paid $130.00

 

[DaveP]

I do my best to issue a friendly education to people who spout the media line about ecigs. When I'm through they are just one more who at least knows the truth. When I first started vaping there were extended family members who "knew all about" ecigs and proceeded to tell me that they contained antifreeze and that nicotine was still poison.

Once I educated them on PG and why it replaced ethylene glycol in antifreeze and the fact that nicotine was about as safe as caffeine they began to listen. Vaping isn't as safe as NOT using a nicotine product, but it's far better than the alternative. Too many people can't quit smoking because of the additives in cigarettes. I couldn't.

The other day our local TV station did a piece on ecigs and interviewed Carolyn (Stormy's Vapor Cellar owner). Carolyn did a great job explaining ecigs, but then they cut to an interview with a local pulmonary physician who spoke out against ecigs as an alternative to smoking. He said that he prefers people use a medically available nicotine inhaler to quit. Then, he went on to state that ecigs use propylene glycol and that's a component of antifreeze. He neglected to mention that his pulmonary breathing treatments use a PG mist to deliver medication into the lungs. How could he feel that PG is OK if he introduces it into patients' lungs, but not for them to use in an ecig? Other than that, an ecig is no more dangerous than Nicorette, IMO.

 

[DaveOno]

Well, let's look at the real 2 bottom lines.

In my research, I have found one fatality from e-liquid. There was some Norman Einstein who injected the e-juice into his body. (Darwin proves true again!) There have been ingestions resulting in hospital care, but I can't find another human fatality.

This is about the 50th post, and if it just took you 20 minutes to read through this post, there's been over 17 people in the US who just died from smoking or second hand smoke.

Half a million deaths in the US annually. (These stats are not nice, but useful to the discussion)

I think the ignorati are joining forces with the illiterati...

And second, 92 known carcinogens in cig smoke vs NONE in vape.

 

[DaveP]

Well, let's look at the real 2 bottom lines.

In my research, I have found one fatality from e-liquid. There was some Norman Einstein who injected the e-juice into his body. (Darwin proves true again!) There have been ingestions resulting in hospital care, but I can't find another human fatality.

This is about the 50th post, and if it just took you 20 minutes to read through this post, there's been over 17 people in the US who just died from smoking or second hand smoke.

Half a million deaths in the US annually. (These stats are not nice, but useful to the discussion)

I think the ignorati are joining forces with the illiterati...

And second, 92 known carcinogens in cig smoke vs NONE in vape.

If I had taken up vaping instead of smoking when I was 16, I'd venture to say my health would be even better. So far, I'm in good shape for my age. I do a full set of free weights almost daily (100 reps) and ride my exercise bike 5 miles while watching old Star Trek episodes on Amazon using the desktop computer in the man cave with wireless headphones. I look forward to my workout!

 

[joesquid]

Almost everything I buy online is not taxed. Granted I only buy liquids at this point but they are not taxed.....yet.

ETA: Just double checked my packing slip to be absolutely sure..... Listed:

Sub-total $126.00
Shipping $4.00

Amount paid $130.00

I find some online purchases are taxed and some are not. I do know Virginia requires you to report all non taxed online purchases on your annual tax forms so they can collect. I'm sure many other states are the same.

 

[chellemmm]

Flavoring from WL in Florida are the only thing I have ordered online that had taxes. Yep, I checked.

 

[skimmer02]

Here's my new approach, so far I've only had the chance to use it once, but it truly stopped my questioner dead in her tracks and gave me a chance to give her some info.
"Oh, so you're pro-smoking?"
"What...what? No, of course not!"
"Well, thousands and thousands of people are quitting smoking this way, do you want them to go back to smoking?"
-Here a conversation ensued-

 

[AgentAnia]

....The other day our local TV station did a piece on ecigs and interviewed Carolyn (Stormy's Vapor Cellar owner). Carolyn did a great job explaining ecigs, but then they cut to an interview with a local pulmonary physician who spoke out against ecigs as an alternative to smoking. He said that he prefers people use a medically available nicotine inhaler to quit. Then, he went on to state that ecigs use propylene glycol and that's a component of antifreeze. He neglected to mention that his pulmonary breathing treatments use a PG mist to deliver medication into the lungs. How could he feel that PG is OK if he introduces it into patients' lungs, but not for them to use in an ecig? Other than that, an ecig is no more dangerous than Nicorette, IMO.

I see two possibilities as to why a pulmonary specialist would make such a statement:

1. He actually doesn't know what's in the medical inhaler he's recommending over ecigs.

2. He knows, and he's lying.

Either possibility is equally troubling, IMO. And as far as I'm concerned, both possibilities verge on medical malpractice.

 

[skimmer02]

Here are the headlines I'd like to see:

"E-cigarette Users Multiplying Logarithmically, But They Don't Work!"

"No One Quitting Smoking with Vaping Technology, Big Tobacco Ramps Up Investment in Vaping Technology!"

"Some Undocumented Risk Possibly, Maybe, Associated With Vaping. Appears Maybe Only 99% Safer Than Smoking!"

"Adults Appear To Enjoy Fruit and Dessert Flavors More Than The Taste Of Burnt Leaves!"

"Big Tobacco Experiences First Significant Loss in Revenue Ever in 2013. Media Blitz About The Dangers And Inefficacy Of Vaping Begins In 2014!"

 

[skimmer02]

Or:

"Concerned Over Possible Health Issues, US Government Ensures Control Of New Technology By Tobacco Industry, Long-time Guardians Of Public Health!"

"To Strengthen Economy, US Crushes Innovators and Small Businesses, Places New Technology In Hands Of Multi-Billion Dollar Companies!"

"No Deaths Or Cancer Reported From Incredibly Hazardous Vaping Technology!"

"Thousands Die Each Year From Vaping, WHOOPS, My Bad, Smoking Cigarettes!"

"Woman Gets E-Liquid On Her Hand, Doesn't Die! She Reports: "My Life Didn't Flash Before My Eyes!"

 

[skimmer02]

Or:

"Horrific Vaping Encounter! Victim Reports: "It Smelled Like ... Apple!"

"US Health Official Decries Vaping Scourge: "Oh It's Horrible! Smokers Appear To Be Quitting Smoking!"

"US Government Scrambles For Solution To Epidemic Of Quitting Smoking."

"Social Security Source Bemoans Rise In Life Expectancy: It's Those Damn Vapers! They're Living And Screwing Up The Actuarial Tables."

 

[skimmer02]

Or:

"Top Health Official Reports: Really, We Prefer The Old School Of Smoking. You Know, The One Where You Get Cancer And Die."

"New Vaper Reports Scary Symptom: My Mouth Was Kinda Dry For, Like, A Couple of Days!"

"New Report Reveals E-Liquid Harmful If Heated To 1000 Degrees and Squirted Into Ear!"

 

[The Ministry]

I was stood vaping with a smoker at work. I suggested he gave the vaping a shot.

"One puff of that is the same as one cigarette"

WTH. I think he meant nicotine, but he didn't care to elaborate.

I corrected him of course, but it is scary what rumors and false information get bandied around and believed on hear say.

He still won't entertain the idea of trying, even though the vapers are starting to outnumber the smokers in there now, but each to his own and all that