First experince with mixing, need help with flavor percentages.

Discussion in 'One Stop DIY Shop' started by Mikenet, Nov 27, 2011.

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  1. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Since my first mix does not taste like I want, I thought Id direct my questions here and ask about all the flavors I have for when I go to mix them.

    All the flavors I have are Flavor Apprentice, with the exception of the MTS Vape wizard. The PG/VG and nicotine I have are from RTS vapes, but I'm thinking that any flavor percentage recommendations using Onestopdiy PG/VG and nicotine would also help in my mixes.

    The first batch I made was with flavor apprentice chocolate, and it hasn't gone well so far. The chocolate taste is very weak, so I'm wondering if anyone can help me. I realize taste is subjective, but If anyone can give me a flavor percentage that works well with this chocolate it would really give me somewhere to start.

    To mix, I used the E juice me up calculator. My target for this mix was 60PG / 40VG with 26MG of nicotine, and I went with 10% chocolate flavor to start.

    Im almost positive my mixing procedure is good, and that I'm getting very close to the numbers I want. I used a nicotine test to reveal that the Nic content in my mix was very close to the target.

    However at this ratio the flavor was barely noticeable, so I brought the mix up to 14% chocolate flavor, and added one drop of MTS vape wizard. The flavor seems to have barely changed though, so I'm wondering what I can do from here. Currently I'm letting it steep for two more days to see if that helps, but I have my doubts. The mix might not have enough flavor so I'm hoping to hear from anyone who has used it.


    The other flavors I have are...

    Tobacco Flavor
    Tobacco Blend
    Root Beer
    Dew Drops
    Menthol Liquid
    Coffee
    Cinnamon Redhots
    Cappuccino
    Chocolate


    Id love to hear common mixing percentages for using these flavors straight. In the future I do plan to mix some flavors but I wanted to get the hang of straight mixes first. However If the chocolate is better when mixed with something, I'm open to ideas. I was also planning on mixing the Mentol liquid with one of my Tobaccos eventually. I just don't know which tobacco I have is better, one of them has tobacco absolute though, whatever that is. :p

    Thanks in Advance
     
  2. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Chocolate is a tough one, go up as high as 25% on your flavor if you have to with it, others may have a different opinion but I find that Chocolate all together is just one of those tough flavors to work with all together, you also may want to try to add something else to the chocolate to make that juice pop a bit, maybe a bit of maple syrup flavor, as well as some Bavarian cream, or even a drop or two of cookie, just my thoughts.
     
  3. salemgold

    salemgold ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I agree with MWA on the chocolate. Another member told me about adding coconut to chocolate and it really does seem to make it pop. I do find with creamy flavors that steeping does them alot of good also. I tend to let my creamy flavors steep for about a week. Good luck to you.

    Edit- looking at your list of flavors you might want to try adding 1% of the cappuccino to your chocolate.
     
  4. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the tips so far, I think after it steeps another couple days I'll test it again. That will give it 5 days or so. If it's still not close I'll bring the flavor up from 14% to 17% or so. Then test again to see if I need more, I guess I'll probably stop adding flavor when I hit 20% if the flavor hasn't improved to make room for another flavor to mix.

    At this point I'll add a small amount of something else as has been suggested. :)

    I was wondering about percentages with the other flavors I have, each one I'll probably try as stand alone flavors just to see what amount is good to mix. If anyone already knows which of these are good by themselves, and what percentages I should aim at that would really save me some time.

    Also, is their a good liquid sweetener available at OnestopDIY? I keep hearing about Loranns Cotton Candy, but I didn't see it available. Id rather deal with liquid sweeteners to cut down on the steps I need to take during mixing, plus I'm thinking liquid sweatners will have a more consistent amount of sweet to it from bottle to bottle, than anything I make myself by crushing crystals.

    Thanks
     
  5. Kimerpuff

    Kimerpuff Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mike :)

    Ok, first off there is no right or wrong percentage... No magic % to stop at. 20% is for me is low.. but that is me and my taste buds. Now keep in mind when you reach the limit on a flavor for you it will taste nasty! Your taste buds will tell you when you have to much flavor hehe :)

    Also when you use VG in your mix it will .. "dampen" the flavor some what, that is how it works for me anyways. This means that it takes more flavoring in a mix with VG then straight PG. Now, your % of VG is not high so that affect is lessened somewhat :)

    Every flavor will take a different % for you and a diffrent % for me. Now, what I am vaping right now is a Vanilla Bean Icecream with Caramel mix in a 50/50 blend of PG and VG. I currently have 24% Vanilla Bean and 12% Caramel. Combined total of flavor for most people is super high, for me its perfect.

    Now, personally I wouldnt use MTS on a creamy or fruit flavor. I appreciate its effects more with a Tobacco Flavoring :) But to each their own!
    for Fruits, I use either Magic Mask or Tart & Sour, or TFA Sour.

    Sweetners, We have Flavor Apprentice Sweetner and Flavor Apprentice Cotton Candy(Ethyl Maltol in PG)

    for the question on steeping. With the Creamy and Fruity mixes I generally dont wait.. Im impatient! lol but I can tell you after a week its better.. so I do try to mix ahead when I remember. If I dont I double mix so the second bottle will be better then the first.

    My secret to finding my flavor % is as follows..

    I smell the flavor, if its like omg overwhelming.. such as Caramel Cappicino.. I start low.. Between 5-10% If it smells good, like Double Chocolate does to me then I start at 15%. I mix without the nic on a flavor test.. small batch around 5ml so just flavoring and PG/VG.
    I use the E-Juice me up calc, to get my blend right with the flavor type (pg or vg) and mix it up.

    Now I drip on an ego, so its very easy for me to taste test with an atty as I can blow/clean it out inbetween tests. If the flavor is to strong (nasty taste) I cut the flavor in half by re-adding the same amount of PG/VG I did to start with and then cleanse my atty, cleanse my palate (water with lemon or a cracker is great for this) then I re-test.

    If the flavor is to light, its time for a judgement call. Is the flavor super light or just not there yet? This is where practise and experience come in. You can add a couple drops and cleanse your atty, palate and retest your way up or you can make a jump of 3% or so..

    The key to all this is notes.. notes... and more notes :)

    Hope this helps, let me know :)
     
  6. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the info. Taste is indeed subjective but I guess what im looking for is an average base number to start with for each flavor.

    If for example a cinnamon flavor is best at 8 -18 % depending on taste and pg/vg ratio, id advertise that as a flavor that has about an 13% average. Then explain that this number will vary by about 5% in either direction depending on taste.

    If a chocolate flavor requires more, say 15 - 25 % flavor id advertise that with a target of 20% give or take 5%

    Those are just examples that aren't based on results, but to have an average number like that to start with would help DIYers in determining whether or not a certain flavor is stronger than another at the same concentration. That would really save some time and energy for newbs like me. :p Although the smell test is also a good idea.

    Are you finding any trends in Flavor Apprentice flavors as far as percentages go? The website advertises 10-20% for these flavors, but perhaps your hearing whether or not most people lean to the high or low end of this scale? If not, are there any trends with the flavors I have?

    Thanks a million Kimerpuff :)

    To answer your question on the flavor, Id describe it as very weak. I can taste the chocolate somewhat but It's very faint. Their is another flavor merging with it, which I'm guessing is the nicotine. It's giving me some TH but their is a weird flavor comming from either the Nic or the chocolate flavor.

    The PG and VG Ive vaped straight and they check out, very sightly sweet in taste.

    I also just mixed 3 6ml batches of nicotine at 26mg for flavor testing. One batch is 100PG / Nic, the second is 60pg / 40vg / nic, the third is just the VG mixed with the Nic. Im hoping without flavor I'll be able to sense how my nicotine base might be adding to the flavor. Plus I'll get to see how significant the throat hit difference is on these mixes. :)
     
  7. Kimerpuff

    Kimerpuff Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Hey Mike,

    The problem with figuring averages is each flavor has a diffrent strength... for example Tiramisu is EXTREMELY strong while Cotton Candy is not.
    I do not have much on feedback for percentages, mainly I get this flavor is great or not.. hehe
     
  8. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thats ok, I'll just learn as I go. :)

    I did find out where the funny taste was coming from after vaping 26mg nic without flavor in three test. It seems to be the nicotine.

    The first test was 100PG / 26 mg PGnic (this was very harsh and unpleasent tasting)

    The second test was in a 60pg/40vg base with 26 mg PGnic (less harsh, but still tasted funny)

    The last test was VG, with 26mg PGnic (this was the smoothest of the three test but I could still taste the nicotine)


    So im in a position now where I realise the flavor of the nicotine will have to be masked, increasing the amount of flavor I need even more. If anyone has any tips on how to reduce or eliminate the flavor of a nicotine base without effecting nicotine content it would really help me in making better tasting mixes.
     
  9. Kimerpuff

    Kimerpuff Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    I like to add Cotton Candy (Flavor Apprentice) it seems to mask it and yes with VG you get more sweetness also for me its smoother, where as PG gives me to much throat hit.. which I am not a fan of :)
     
  10. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    About the Cotton Candy, Ive been hearing this recommended as a sweetener. One poster said they use Lorann's cotton candy, which is just ethyl maltol in PG. Would this be the same for Flavor Apprentice cotton candy? I am looking to get a good sweetener. Under TFA I saw something labeled (sweetener), and I saw cotton candy.

    I didn't see Loranns cotton candy though. I guess Im confused as to what will work best. :p
     
  11. GrannyM

    GrannyM Super Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mikenet,
    It might help you to visit the Flavor Apprentice website flavorapprentice.com
    Here you find more detail/descriptions & sometimes reviews/recipes/percentages of the individual flavors.

    I use cotton candy (or ethyl maltol) to reduce harshness & round out flavors (mostly tobaccos). Lorann & TFA are probably the same. I have the ethyl maltol from OneStop & just diluted it in PG.
    TFA Sweetener is sucralose and I use it sometimes if I need more "sweet". Some people don't want to use sucralose, so they rely on the cotton candy or some use marshmallow flavor.

    I think if you take a look at the Flavor Apprentice site, you might also gain some clues about your chocolate mix. I've never used the TFA chocolate, but from their description it's not really a stand alone flavor; rather a flavor more suited to blending with others.

    Hope this helps you!
     
  12. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Great resource, If I knew about that before I would have gotten the double chocolate flavor instead. I suppose I'll have to probably cut this flavor with another but I'm thinking I can still salvage it.

    Thanks for the link, I love the detailed descriptions. :)
     
  13. Kimerpuff

    Kimerpuff Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mike,

    The cotton candy from Flavor Apprentice is the one that is EM in PG :) not LorAnns :)
     
  14. Mikenet

    Mikenet Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the info, the other poster might have made a typo. I suppose I'll go with the TFA cotton candy then. :)

    Im still waiting on a response about my nicotine from the distributor to find out if the taste is normal. Ive vaped 24mg premixed many times without the odd flavor so Im thinking they either have cleaner tasting nic, or they know what to add to the nic to dampen the taste. I'll have to wait and see because it will be a shame to waste all these flavors on a nicotine that might just taste bad. I will try recovering the chocolate with these tips though. :)
     
  15. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Super Member ECF Veteran

    For my 3ml test batches I have been using about 15 drops of flavor (combined/total) with a 2.5ml 18mg 50PG/50VG nic base. At least for me it seems to work and gives me a good idea if the mic needs more flavor.... or if I need to tweak a flavor.

    Haven't had the samples steeping for any amount of time. But figured that the 5 apple drop and 10 waffle drops sort of drown out the waffle flavor. If the waffle doesn't steep out a bit more will know to change the waffle to 15. Was also thinking it might go over the top with a drop or so of some cinnamon to compliment the apple.

    I only have a few test batches under my belt. Good juice calculator and trial and error has been what I have been using.
     
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