Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?

[patkin]

Well, you're better off that way. The more you alternate flavors, the more likely you are to avoid vaper's tongue. It took me about 6 months to find one I was happy with and am hoping I don't build a tolerance or whatever its called to where I don't enjoy it anymore.

 

[k702]

so is there a list somewhere of flavorings (diy or otherwise... I would like a list of diy flavorings personally) and maybe the different companies, and which "don't contain" diacetyl or the other stuff that's supposed to scare us?

and are there any current studies going on concerning this issue done by people other than osha that anyone knows of?

 

[HeadInClouds]

You can smell Diacetyl just from the Vapour in the room? ...
Currently I'm eagerly awaiting the results of Dr Farsalinos' latest study on over 100 worldwide eliquids...

No, not from second-hand vapor - I can smell it in the liquid when I open the bottle. There's one popular flavor in particular that literally makes me gag just to smell. I don't know how anyone can stand it, though many think it smells (and tastes) delicious. *shudder*

I'm also eager to see Dr. Farsalinos' results!

 

[HeadInClouds]

They answered me quickly saying "You can be assured none of our juices contain diacetyl." That's the best I can do other than the other measures I've taken since starting to vape.

Ask if they contain any acetyl propionyl or acetoin. Those are the two most-commonly-used diacetyl substitutes. They smell and taste very similar and are equally harmful when inhaled, according to very recent studies. Your vendor may very well not know the answer - because few flavoring companies disclose their use of these substitutes.

 

[CalamityJess]

I actually asked my shop about Diacetyl, they said they buy their flavorings from a supplier that doesn't use it. Didn't ask about the other two, but i know the "creamy" flavors I've tried definitely don't taste as creamy as I thought they would (butterscotch for example, good, but not that rich creamy taste like the candies).

 

[patkin]

Ask if they contain any acetyl propionyl or acetoin. Those are the two most-commonly-used diacetyl substitutes. They smell and taste very similar and are equally harmful when inhaled, according to very recent studies. Your vendor may very well not know the answer - because few flavoring companies disclose their use of these substitutes.

May I quote you when I ask? True, they may very well NOT know but they also may very WELL know since due to the two owner's occupations in the medical field... particularly respiration... and their stated goal starting the business. Many SAY their goal is/was to help stop smoking but they DO appear genuine in that to me. Not all vendors are fly-by-night operations to make quick money grabs while it lasts. Anyway, I'll await your answer... if you don't want me quoting, I can paraphrase it as you suggest. I suspect they're on top of things but if not would you please post a link to those "recent studies" so I can forward to them. Thanks.

 

[HeadInClouds]

May I quote you when I ask? True, they may very well NOT know but they also may very WELL know since due to the two owner's occupations in the medical field... particularly respiration... and their stated goal starting the business. Many SAY their goal is/was to help stop smoking but they DO appear genuine in that to me. Not all vendors are fly-by-night operations to make quick money grabs while it lasts. Anyway, I'll await your answer... if you don't want me quoting, I can paraphrase it as you suggest. I suspect they're on top of things but if not would you please post a link to those "recent studies" so I can forward to them. Thanks.

Sure you can quote me, not that I have any cachet with them

I'm sure not saying any vendor is a fly-by-night operation. I'm saying they may not know what they're selling, because *their* suppliers (flavor manufacturers) don't necessarily release that information. Heck, they don't have to. All this stuff, including diacetyl, is perfectly safe to eat/drink, and these are intended as food flavorings.

Here's a link to the abstract of the most current study I've seen. It's from December:
Evaluation of the hypersensitivity potenti... [Food Chem Toxicol. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
Here's an excerpt:
Similar to diacetyl (EC3=17.9%), concentration-dependent increases in lymphocyte proliferation were observed following exposure to all four chemicals, with calculated EC3 values of 15.4% (2,3-pentanedione), 18.2% (2,3-hexanedione), 15.5% (3,4-hexanedione) and 14.1% (2,3-heptanedione). .... These results demonstrate the potential for development of hypersensitivity responses to these proposed alternative butter flavorings and raise concern about the use of structurally similar replacement chemicals.

Google the name of the study (Evaluation of the hypersensitivity potential of alternative butter flavorings) to find more discussion and explanation of it.

If your vendor can assure they use flavorings that do not have these chemicals, you'll be able to breathe easy...so to speak

 

[patkin]

Eliquid-euphoric vaping

None of the above + other "evil" ingredients. I've also seen that Capella has a "NEW" Vanilla Custard not containing them. Doing a "start page" (I don't use google) search I'm actually finding quite a few making the same statement that's on the Euporic page (don't know why it won't let me copy it.) Just too numerous to put them here.

 

[ejsusmc]

whoa...

Ok, so I'm a bit on the fence now. I'm glad I have the where-with-all to do a little research on my own because every vaper and vape shop I've spoke with has swore up and down PG/VG & flavor blends are 100% safe. Why would I have a reason to doubt them? I guess when it comes down to brass tacks it's "safer" than analogs, but like the great one said... everything in moderation, even moderation.

 

[HeadInClouds]

so is there a list somewhere of flavorings (diy or otherwise... I would like a list of diy flavorings personally) and maybe the different companies, and which "don't contain" diacetyl or the other stuff that's supposed to scare us?

and are there any current studies going on concerning this issue done by people other than osha that anyone knows of?

There are only 2 such companies that I know of: The Flavor Apprentice and FlavourArt. In both cases you have to look at their website, not just a reseller's site, to find which flavors to use. On TFA's site, read each description and look at the ingredients. On FlavourArt's website, avoid the "Kitchen Magic" flavors, each of which has a warning in the description. You'll still have plenty to choose from on both those sites.

If there are other flavor manufacturers that test for acetoin or acetyl propionyl, I hope someone will let us know!

I do not know of ongoing studies other than Dr. Farsalinos' right now. Here is that website: Home

 

[HeadInClouds]

Eliquid-euphoric vaping

None of the above + other "evil" ingredients. I've also seen that Capella has a "NEW" Vanilla Custard not containing them.

Hey, they do indeed state they're free of each of those chemicals! This is where your vendor gets flavorings? Good on them (and you)!

Good to see Capella will have a safer Vanilla Custard, because it sure is popular. Are they going to do that with their other flavorings, too?

thanks for some good news, patkin.

 

[patkin]

I just happen to come across the CVC in my reading and didn't research others as I'm not a sweets vaper but, from what I've seen, the info is readily available for those needing the info. Seems every ecig forum and blog is on it so its pretty easy to find the info as members/site owners have gotten replies to their emails.... Capella did take an awful long time to answer though. lol

 

[CalamityJess]

Eliquid-euphoric vaping

None of the above + other "evil" ingredients. I've also seen that Capella has a "NEW" Vanilla Custard not containing them. Doing a "start page" (I don't use google) search I'm actually finding quite a few making the same statement that's on the Euporic page (don't know why it won't let me copy it.) Just too numerous to put them here.

Dang, I see a lot of familiar flavors there that are in my favorite blends from my shop (they do their own flavor mixes, and are frigging fantastic). I wonder if that's where my shop gets theirs. They did say no Diacetyl, and their supplier is considered the best in the business. Either way, I'm saving this to my blog so if I decide to DIY I know where to shop.

 

[Hoosier]

...are 100% safe.

If anyone tells you ANYTHING is 100% safe, they are either ignorant, at best, or lying.

You can die from drinking too much pure water. Nothing is 100% safe. (That's a period at the end of that sentence and should be pronounced when reading it.)

 

[moondragon]

Interesting read. I hadn't been aware that so many type of flavorings might be implicated. Several months ago I had decided to give 100% VG with no flavoring a try, and it's not bad. Recently, I have been adding just a few drops - between 5 - 10 drops - of pre-mixed flavoring to each tank. Just enough to give it a touch of flavor. Fortunately, I've never been into needing a strong flavor aspect, so perhaps that will be to my advantage.

 

[Blueser]

Not to change the subject but as an upnote of sorts....

Nicotine Benefits

Nicotine is being considered as a therapeutic agent to treat such conditions as attention deficit disorder, Alzheimer's Disease, Parkinson's Disease, Tourette syndrome, sleep apnea, obesity, ulcerative colitis, and inflammatory skin disorders.

Nicotine has the following benefits:

Relieves depression
Reduces anxiety
Improves ability to concentrate and long term memory
Protects against developing high blood pressure
Protects against weight gain
Protects against developing Parkinson's Disease

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

Hey, they do indeed state they're free of each of those chemicals! This is where your vendor gets flavorings? Good on them (and you)!

Good to see Capella will have a safer Vanilla Custard, because it sure is popular. Are they going to do that with their other flavorings, too?

thanks for some good news, patkin.

The new vanilla custard isn't available just yet, but will be soon from my discussion with Tom a few weeks back. From what he told me, they will be offering a "Version 2" of their more popular flavors that do, as of now, contain Acetyl Proprionyl, which is what they use in their custard and from what I can tell, in their cake batter and french vanilla. I know the custard will be offered, but I don't know and can't confirm the other two just yet as they are working on vanilla custard, a new tobacco flavoring and 7 others that are not on their site as of yet. Hopefully I'll know more about the other 7 seven flavors soon enough!

He said that these new versions will be free of Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl. That does most likely mean they won't have the same flavor profile, but they will be a bit safer (note: nothing is 100% safe) to use than those with the previously mentioned chemicals.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Nicotine Benefits

..also used to relieve/treat schizophrenia and mild cognitive impairment
The 50% reduction in Alzheimer's rates that motivated me to continue vaping.

There's an excellent article in the March issue of Discover Magazine titled "Nicotine...Good for You?: Surprising upside to nature's most hated stimulant". It's well worth picking up a copy.

 

[Blueser]

..also used to relieve/treat schizophrenia and mild cognitive impairment
The 50% reduction in Alzheimer's rates that motivated me to continue vaping.

There's an excellent article in the March issue of Discover Magazine titled "Nicotine...Good for You?: Surprising upside to nature's most hated stimulant". It's well worth picking up a copy.

Alzheimer's is an horrendous disorder...

 

[CalamityJess]

..also used to relieve/treat schizophrenia and mild cognitive impairment
The 50% reduction in Alzheimer's rates that motivated me to continue vaping.

There's an excellent article in the March issue of Discover Magazine titled "Nicotine...Good for You?: Surprising upside to nature's most hated stimulant". It's well worth picking up a copy.

The anxiety and focus are exactly why I didn't want to give up nicotine! I'm on anxiety medication (thank you Afghanistan, we like to call this post traumatic spouse disorder...gotta laugh about it, what's the alternative?) but sometimes I still get breakthrough anxiety. I don't want a higher dosage. I also have always had trouble focusing on the task at hand. I zone out, I wander off, I've always had that...ADD didn't have a name when I was a kid. And I don't want meds, I only take the anxiety meds because I can't function without it. Nicotine has always helped.

This way I still get that. Add in the required breathing aspect, it makes me stop and literally take a breath or ten slowly. I need vaping in my life. That's why this thread worried me. That's why I contacted my shop. That's why I felt so much better when they told me their supplier is free of it.

I also figure I have been cooking and baking for 20 odd years now, and inhaling my fair share of this vaporized stuff and it's substitutes. But I still stopped deep inhaling my flavors. And to my surprised they taste better!