Getting started,help please

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SUPER K

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I came to vaping from pipe smoking and was rather frustrated with e liquid flavors, even the "tobacco" flavors from high end vendors.

I'm a Virginia and Lakeland freak. Although I gave most of my tobacco away I still have a large bulk of Newminster Navy Flake and a few small things of other pipe tobacco.

How do I make an NET? What supplies do I need?
 

EverPresentNoob

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well ind you I just started yesterday with my first so i am by no means an expert, but what i did was simply put about 1/3 cup of my pipe tobacco into a mason jar, then pour PG over it until the tobacco was floating about 3/4 inch off the bottom. Capped it, and let it sit. Seems the norm is a few weeks wait time. at that point it is filter filter adn filter again to get the impurities out, then you can use that as a flavoring when making your DIY juice.

Now I will add that at about the 4 hours mark I smelled my mix and it smelled so darn good I had to try it. used a dropper to pull up a little of the PG and it was a nice honey brown color. dripped it into a dripper I had handy and hit it at 30 watts. HEAVEN!! it tasted so freaking good.

And then I may have made a mistake... To soon to tell for certain, but I put the bottle on a crock pot of hot water for about an hour. I thought it would aid the steep/extraction... I have since been told that I probably shouldn't have done that, and I have read many guides last night that say that could make it bitter... Oops. Oh well, I plan on just letting it soak in my closet for a few weeks and then i will try it again.

There are other methods to do it that I read about, but I had PG on hand so figured I would give it a shot. after that initial taste Im so glad I did.
 

usr/

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I came to vaping from pipe smoking and was rather frustrated with e liquid flavors, even the "tobacco" flavors from high end vendors.

I'm a Virginia and Lakeland freak. Although I gave most of my tobacco away I still have a large bulk of Newminster Navy Flake and a few small things of other pipe tobacco.

How do I make an NET? What supplies do I need?


Hey Super K, If your looking for a simple method to start extracting I would recommend just doing a simple cold soak (room temperature maceration). Just take a 8oz or 12 oz mason jar and clean it thoroughly. I sterilize my jars by boiling water in them in the microwave. You have to be extremely careful doing this though. Just make sure the jar is clean and free of any detergents after you wash it. Dry the jar. Just place your tobacco in the jar loosely, you can press it down lightly. Most of the time I'm dealing with 1 to 1.75 oz of tobacco. Then pour in 100% PG until it covers the tobacco. Make sure it soaks in good. I normally take a clean spatula handle and just run it down in the jar to make sure PG soaks the tobacco thoroughly. Add more if needed to cover it quarter inch or so above the leaf. Place a lid and band on it and put it in a drawer someplace and then just wait. This is the hard part. lol! I would give it 4 weeks minimum. I normally soak mine 6 to 8 weeks occasionally looking at it and maybe giving it a gentle roll in the jar. At midpoint you may want to pull a little sample off in a dropper and mix up a little 3ml test sample, maybe at around 7-8% or up to 13 to 20%. I find the lower end still has good flavor and a little less gunk. Put it in a dripper, to see how it's progressing. Your next challenge will come when your ready to remove the extracted leaf from liquid. I use a fine nylon grain bag from my home brewing days. The thing is literally indestructible and reusable. I use it for everything involved with straining. I normally just fold it double and punch it down into a measuring cup and then pour the jar of extract in, gather the bag at the top and then proceed to gently squeeze the bag to get as much liquid from the rough as I can. You can give it a pretty good squeeze without worrying about it breaking open on you. After that I just discard whats left in the bag. There's still a lot of goodness left in the wet rough that can be washed from it but that's another process in itself. You'll be happy with what you have at this point. Usually end up with around 3 to 4 oz of heavy extract, depending on how much tobacco you used. Of course you can use less tobacco. Just follow the same covering procedure per amount of tobacco used. Just adjust your jar size with your amount of extract to minimize head space in your jar. These are long runs and I just like to expose it to as little oxygen as possible. At this point you can now begin to filter down to a super clean and clear extract. You can do your primary filter with just a coffee filter. I use one of these to filter down to 1-2.5 microns, in two stages. First a coffee filter stage then a 2.5 micron filter stage and I have gone down to 1.5 microns but be aware the 1.5 micron filter can take up to 30+ hours using gravity. When filtering at 1.5 microns I keep everything covered well. It's a slow process but gravity will get the job done. After you've filtered to 2.5 micron then you just use the extract the same way you use flavor concentrates to DIY. I recommend 7-12% some go as high as 20%. And of course allowing them to age. Only you can be the judge of that. I hope this helps you out. There are several other threads in this sub-forum that have some really good info on different processes and filtering. A lot of them are now closed but are still there. “Cold Maceration of Tobacco” is a very good one, also “Pipe Tobacco and Cigar” Extraction. Also see Str8visions Tobacco Extraction using Heated Ethanol. I would like to do some ethanol extractions but for me that's like playing Russian Roulette with alcohol. If you know what I mean. I think the tobacco you mentioned you had, should produce a nice extract. I love those Virginia's, Orientals and the Burley's. Have a good one and good luck to you.


This is a link to the paper I'm using. Looks like the price has doubled since I got mine. Maybe someone will chime in with links to better prices.

2.5 micron

Ahlstrom Qualitative Filter Paper, 2.5 micrometer Retention, Medium Flow, Grade 601: Science Lab Qualitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

This is the 1.5 Micron

Thomas Qualitative Grade Filter Paper: Science Lab Qualitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
 

roselinuk

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Just for comparison with 2.5 and 1.5 micron filters, how many microns is a typical coffee filter?

And as an effective way to get the rough matter out first, how about pressing it in a 'French Press' coffee maker? (aka, a cafetiere).

I also wonder if you could put a circle of 2.5 micron filter paper between the presser and the liquid, then press down, to speed up the later stages?

(About to start setting up my first extraction, so can't test this myself yet)
 

67Tele

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@usr/
I'm getting ready to start learning Extraction and your post helps tremendously! I've been reading through others threads as well. Yours has a great amount of Detail on how to start in one post. Thanks for putting it up there.

@EverPresentNoob thanks for the tips as well. I'll hold off on the crockpot...
 
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Str8vision

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Just for comparison with 2.5 and 1.5 micron filters, how many microns is a typical coffee filter?

And as an effective way to get the rough matter out first, how about pressing it in a 'French Press' coffee maker? (aka, a cafetiere).

I also wonder if you could put a circle of 2.5 micron filter paper between the presser and the liquid, then press down, to speed up the later stages?

A typical coffee filter provides approximately 25 - 35 micron filtration. Packing organic cotton balls inside a large syringe can produce around 15 - 20 micron filtration. Neither produces an adequately clean extract.

A simple way to separate saturated tobacco from the extraction solvent (PG), is to place a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Slowly dump the tobacco and solvent (PG), into the coffee filter allowing time for the loose solvent to filter through. Gather/fold the edges of the coffee filter together encapsulating the saturated tobacco inside and -gently- squeeze to release/recover most of the extract. Be careful not to rupture the coffee filter when you squeeze, start out with a light grip and increase pressure slowly. When done, discard the tobacco and filter. You're now ready for higher levels of filtration.

Several of the old extractors bought and used an Aeropress (coffee press), to help expedite filtering. They bought 5 micron filter felt and cut it to fit inside their press. They reported great success but in truth a PG based extract will "gravity flow" through filter felt quite rapidly without mechanical assistance of any kind. If memory serves me right, one extractor did attempt to use 2 micron lab paper in his Aeropress but it required significant time under constant pressure for the extract to flow through, longer than most people would want to sit and exert such force. Perhaps you could attach a weight to the top of the plunger so that constant force would be applied. He also questioned if the extract was bypassing (going around), the filter rather than through it. I don't use an Aeropress so really couldn't say.

Warm PG (80F +), will gravity flow through 2.5 - 3 micron lab paper but it can take a very long time to do so, 24+ hours for 30 or so ml. I don't recommend using lab filters below 2.5 micron retention if you're gravity filtering. The gravity filtering process is simple, pleat fold your filter paper into a cone shape http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yXtFORQ0BxOgukRYQ&sig2=OeXAO0LxxtROkNu1-OFh0w and place it inside a funnel. Place the funnel inside a clean glass container and slowly pour the extract inside the filter being careful not to overfill it. Wait for the extract to filter through and you're done. I'd suggest using filter paper that's at least 11cm in diameter for this method. For some reason prices seem to fluctuate wildly on these types of filters but here's a link to some 2.5 micron 18cm filters that are pre-folded and currently $26 per 100 count Ahlstrom Qualitative Filter Paper, 2.5 micrometer Retention, Medium Flow, Grade 601: Science Lab Qualitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Filter felt is available in 0.5 and 1 micron retention ratings. Nominally rated, it's really closer to 3 - 5 microns in "actual" particle retention, still pretty respectable and it produces a clean extract. It's reusable (cleanable), and therefore much less expensive to use than paper lab filters. PG flows through it with relative ease so filtering is considerably faster, minutes instead of hours. For $9 (shipped), You can purchase a 1 micron singed felt filter bag, remove the seams, and cut filters from the fabric. Singed Polyester Felt Filter Bag 1 Micron Size #1 7"x16": Industrial Process Filter Bags: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific For $26 you can get a 3' x 6' sheet of the fabric, enough to last forever Singed Polyester Felt Filter Media Fabric Sheet 1 Micron: Industrial Process Filter Bags: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific There's also a 0.5 micron bag available for $15 (shipped) http://www.amazon.com/Micron-Polyes...TW2G9CL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_ that would likely produce squeaky clean extracts requiring only gravity and time for the filtering process. Filter felt is thirsty and absorbs a bit of your extract with use so it's best to use the smallest size/diameter possible when filtering.

When gravity filtering using filter felt or paper lab filters, I use a filter holder instead of a funnel. Buying a ready manufactured holder costs hundreds of dollars but you can make one yourself for around $12. Buy a 1.5" PVC socket union (with o-ring), like this one B and K Industries 164-637 1-1/2-Inch PVC Schedule 80 Solvent Unions - Pipe Fittings - Amazon.com Clean it well and replace the union's EDPM o-ring with a silicone o-ring like this 224 Silicone O-Ring, 70A Durometer, Red, 1-3/4" ID, 2" OD, 1/8" Width (Pack of 5): O Ring Seals: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific Cut a 2.5" disc from the filter felt and insert it inside the union on top of the o-ring, tighten the union snugly and place one end in a canning jar. The other end will hold around 60ml of "dirty" extract. This holder also works with 5.5cm diameter paper lab filters which are less expensive than 11+cm diameter filters AND you don't need to fold them.
 

Str8vision

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I have thought of getting a jelly strainer bag or nut milk bag to use in place of coffee filters which sounds something like what usr/ mentioned in his post. Amazon.com | Nut Milk Bag - Cold Brew Coffee Maker - Food Grade - Food Strainer - Filter Bags: Single-Serve Brewers These bags are rated between 75 and 200 microns so would allow more sediment through but are tough, washable/reusable and would hold a much larger amount of tobacco. Coffee filters are limited to around 1/2 oz. of tobacco or less.
 
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Boxster

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I came to vaping from pipe smoking and was rather frustrated with e liquid flavors, even the "tobacco" flavors from high end vendors.

I'm a Virginia and Lakeland freak. Although I gave most of my tobacco away I still have a large bulk of Newminster Navy Flake and a few small things of other pipe tobacco.

How do I make an NET? What supplies do I need?

Cold extraction rule of thumb:

Pipe tobaccos 4 to 6 weeks
Cigarette tobacco 6 to 8 weeks
Cigar tobacco 8 to 12 weeks

For filtration I use the Aeropress. It works great for separating the extract from the tobacco with very small loss. I bought mine from Bed Bath & Beyond with a 20% off coupon. With the included coffee filters (350 count), use a spatula and pour in as much of the extract as possible while holding back the tobacco in the jar. After the extract has filtered, scoop in the saturated tobacco and use the press to get the remaining extract from the tobacco.

One advantage of the aeropress is that I can use a smaller 70mm, higher quality filter for less cost (at the time I purchased) than a large lower quality filter. I use the Ahlstrom 0740-0700 Quantitative Filter Paper, 2 Micron, Medium Flow, Grade 74, 7cm Diameter. This is an ashless, high wet strength filter.
Ahlstrom Quantitative Filter Paper, 2 micrometer Retention, Medium Flow, Grade 74: Science Lab Quantitative Filter Paper: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
http://www.ahlstrom.com/globalasset...ce-files/ahlstrom-laboratory-catalogue-en.pdf

The filter basket on the Aeropress is 63mm ID but you don’t have to trim the 70mm filter. Just place a filter centered on the basket, turn the Aeropress chamber upside down and press the filter into the basket.

IMG_0212r.jpg

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I can usually start a final filtration of 60ml before I go to bed and it’s done or almost done by morning. Filtration time can vary depending on tobacco type, casing, and curing method. Heavily cased and fermented tobaccos tend to clog faster and take longer to filter. Although the Aeropress can hold a lot of liquid, I recommend only filtering 60ml at a time. The filter will begin to clog and filtering will slow down after about 60ml. With the high wet strength filter you can backwash the filter with warm water and start another batch.

Felt Filter: IMO don’t waste your money.

1) It’s too thick to use in the Aeropress.

2) Felt sucks up juice like a sponge so you lose a lot of extract.

Rant on:
I bought 3 yards (minimum order) of 5 micron felt from McMaster-Carr for $15.00. Three days later I got a shipping notice with an $11.44 shipping charge :-x.Over a week later I received an 18”x18”X12” box with 2” of felt + 10” of Styrofoam peanuts. Seriously? Its freaking felt, not a Ming dynasty vase :facepalm:. I still have 99.9% left taking up room in my closet.
Rant off:

For mixing I like this calculator.
New Calculator to try
ejuice_cal.png


Mixing by weight is so much easier, faster and cheaper since you really don’t need a bunch measuring glassware, gloves, safety goggles, etc., and there is almost no cleanup. Measuring opaque extracts in a graduated cylinder or syringe is a PIA. You just need a cheap gram scale and some dispensing bottles. All of your mixing is done directly into your juice bottle.
Amazon.com - Horizon ACCT-500 Digital Precision Jewelry Scale w/ Trays, 500 g by 0.01 g - Digital Kitchen Scales

Put your juice bottle on the scale and press the tare button to zero the scale.
Add Nic press tare button
Add PG press tare button
Add VG press tare button
Add extract
Put on the cap, shake, and label
Cap your dispensing bottles, put in the cabinet
done.:thumbs:

I do sometimes use a blunt tip needle but it’s just for transferring extract from non-drip bottles, not for measuring.

Good luck
 

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Boxster

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For dispensing bulk PG & VG I use bottles similar to these.
Vestil BTL-RC-8 Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) Round Squeeze Dispensing Bottle with Removable Red Cap, 8 oz Capacity, Clear: Science Lab Dispensing Bottles: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

For adding nic and small amounts of PG & VG I use 60ml luer lock bottles with plastic luer lock needles from RTD Vapor.
Accessories - Bottles - RTD vapor

I have my bottles color coded with colored electrical tape from Home Depot for easy identification.
Red for nicotine
Green for VG
Blue for PG

My Freedom Smokes also carries luer lock caps for their 30ml & 60ml bottles.
Luer Lock Bottle Cap - Bottles & Caps - Nicotine & Mixing Supplies - MyFreedomSmokes

For storage bottles EssentialDepot is a good source.
Bottles: Essential Depot
They also have great deals on PG & VG. A gallon of both for $43.62 with free shipping.
1 Gallon Veg Glycerin + 1 Gallon Propylene Glycol - FREE US SHIPPING: Essential Depot

Target is a good source for mason jars. 4oz jars are the perfect size for making 60ml of extract. 8oz jars are more versatile.

Small and medium funnels are also a must have for transferring extract to storage bottles and refilling dispensing bottles.

good luck
 

usr/

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For dispensing bulk PG & VG I use bottles similar to these.
Vestil BTL-RC-8 Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) Round Squeeze Dispensing Bottle with Removable Red Cap, 8 oz Capacity, Clear: Science Lab Dispensing Bottles: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

For adding nic and small amounts of PG & VG I use 60ml luer lock bottles with plastic luer lock needles from RTD Vapor.
Accessories - Bottles - RTD vapor

I have my bottles color coded with colored electrical tape from Home Depot for easy identification.
Red for nicotine
Green for VG
Blue for PG

My Freedom Smokes also carries luer lock caps for their 30ml & 60ml bottles.
Luer Lock Bottle Cap - Bottles & Caps - Nicotine & Mixing Supplies - MyFreedomSmokes

For storage bottles EssentialDepot is a good source.
Bottles: Essential Depot
They also have great deals on PG & VG. A gallon of both for $43.62 with free shipping.
1 Gallon Veg Glycerin + 1 Gallon Propylene Glycol - FREE US SHIPPING: Essential Depot

Target is a good source for mason jars. 4oz jars are the perfect size for making 60ml of extract. 8oz jars are more versatile.

Small and medium funnels are also a must have for transferring extract to storage bottles and refilling dispensing bottles.

good luck



A good supply of various sizes of the Boston Amber Bottles is essential for storing and mixing. I prefer everything glass. And a variety of syringes 1ml, 3ml, 5ml, 10ml. Pipettes just don't cut it. Good links there Boxster, Str8
 
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67Tele

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Thank you @Boxster and @usr/ !
I have 30 & 60ml Boston bottles, PG/VG/Nic from Wizard Labs, a couple of 1ml syringes (will get some bigger sizes), Target is on the way home from work so I'll get the Mason jars, need gloves too...

Will get the scale and the dispensing bottles.

I was trading emails with HotRod yesterday about the Juice Calculator. I couldn't get it to open. Turns out there was a glitch for first-time users. He's uploaded a new version and the program pops up right away now.

I really appreciate the detail, the links and advice!
 
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Boxster

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Thank you @Boxster and @usr/ !
I have 30 & 60ml Boston bottles, PG/VG/Nic from Wizard Labs, a couple of 1ml syringes (will get some bigger sizes), Target is on the way home from work so I'll get the Mason jars, need gloves too...

Will get the scale and the dispensing bottles.

I was trading emails with HotRod yesterday about the Juice Calculator. I couldn't get it to open. Turns out there was a glitch for first-time users. He's uploaded a new version and the program pops up right away now.

I really appreciate the detail, the links and advice!
I saw that he posted the update, and explained the problem. I thought "oh :censored:!" I just posted a link to his program.:blush:
I'm glad you got it working. Hot Rod is very responsive to user problems and requests for improvements and new features.
 

aceswired

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How do I make an NET? What supplies do I need?
This entire subforum is devoted to it, Super K. My suggestion would be ... read it. People can summarize for you, but you'd be far better off just sitting down with a nice vape and planning to invest some time reading.
 

67Tele

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And reading is where I'm at now. I haven't had the time to start as yet.
I picked up 8oz Mason jars at Target yesterday. I'm ready to order:

The Horizon scale
10 pack of 5ml syringes
10 pack of 3ml syringes
6 of the Vestil bottles
Ahlstrom paper to pleat my little heart out
Plus the 30 & 60 ml Boston bottles, a couple of 1ml syringes, 5 tins of pipe tobacco from P&G, PG, VG, and Nic I have already. ETA: I have a couple of funnels and went to add the coffee filter user/ linked above.

Anything I'm missing?
oh, gloves!

thanks again for all the links and guidance!
 
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