Harvard Eliquid Study Today

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ManiacMedic

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Didn't take long for this thread to get beaten to death. ;)

vaping is not, and will never be without risk. That's a fact, so accept it!

Funny how the study fails to mention that a cigarette contain 100 time more Diacetyl than e-liquids.
Also funny that they fail to mention that the researchers have financial ties with BP.

The study was simply a case of
88611-beating-dead-horse-gif-South-P-ZqEc.gif

There isn't a bit of new information in it.

Sorry you are having problems Maniac .... guess you should stop vaping.
Stopped Vaping over a year ago.

Should research what happens to diacetyl at high temps though. Quite interesting. That is why the comparison can not be made.
 

ManiacMedic

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ManiacMedic
"being that it's a mild to moderate fixed airway obstruction, decreased fef25-75% and FEV1, with inconclusive HRCT results, it's really becoming a serious option that it is flavoring related"
Ya .......... I can see this awarding you millions in court, though a simple slip and fall at your local walmart might yield an easier payday.
You do realize you will be putting sole liability on said compound that exist in cigarettes which contain a much larger dose than ejuice ?
Combustion versus aerosol. Understand the chemistry.
 

sparkky1

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officer196

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Whatever you'd like to say is fine. I'm not going to argue credentials. i certainly have a higher licensure than EMT-B. I certainly don't only work in an ambulance. And I certainly never stopped going to school.

Which mean you're either advanced, intermediate or paramedic. If you're working in a hospital you're more than likely a tech. At the end of the day, none of those hardly represent enough credentials to substantiate the claims you're trying to make.

More than likely the "team of physicians" you've spoken too don't have the specialty credentials to deal with it either. Again, you simply emphasized the post I made in regards to adding qualifiers, redirecting and contradicting your statements. You're trying to establish credibility where it does not exist.

I emphasize with any medical issues you have, as I do have family with respotory issues, but I suggest you actually talk to specialist who deal with the respitory system specifically before you even consider lawsuits as at this point current studies do not link e liquid to your claims. In the future, maybe, but in the present, it does not.
 

tj99959

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    Stopped Vaping over a year ago.

    Should research what happens to diacetyl at high temps though. Quite interesting. That is why the comparison can not be made.

    How high a temp is what's being questioned, and that too is being addressed by the industry and independent research.

    I'd have to ask my kid about the medical credentials (she's an E7 NREMT-P/IDMT)
     
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    sparkky1

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    Stopped Vaping over a year ago.

    Should research what happens to diacetyl at high temps though. Quite interesting. That is why the comparison can not be made.

    Would you mind sharing a link to the findings and the cigarette temp comparison. Does Butyric Acid and Acetoin withstand higher temps ?
     

    sparkky1

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    How high a temp is what's being questioned, and that too is being addressed by the industry and independent research.

    I'd have to ask my kid about the medical credentials (she's an E7 NREMT-P/IDMT)

    Every state has one or two pulmonologist specialist that specialize is certain areas, not all pulmonologists have extensive experience and up-to-date knowledge of PF, especially IPF, like in the case of the one I go to and guess what, it didn't take him a year to diagnose me, although I think the other 156 "specialist" around my state don't have a bit of trouble mis diagnosing.The really funny part is he thinks if you take out said compound you won't have any lung irritating compounds left in your juice anymore but he's going "to make vaping safer".
     
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    SmilingWolf

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    How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
    GUY BENTLEY
    11:14 AM 12/09/2015

    A Harvard study claiming most e-cigarette brands expose users to harmful chemicals omits critical information and exaggerates the risks of flavored e-cigarettes, according to tobacco control experts.

    The study, published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, analyzes a host of e-liquid flavors to discover levels of potentially dangerous chemicals diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin.

    The researchers found one or more of the three chemicals in 92 percent of the 51 unique flavors of e-liquid. Diacetyl is identified in 39 of 51 flavors – 75 percent of the total.

    Following the study, an array of media outlets focused on the presence of diacetyl, a chemical used for food flavoring that if inhaled in large amounts can lead to a severe respiratory disease – bronchiolitis obliterans.

    Bronchiolitis obliterans is commonly known as “popcorn lung,” because it was identified in workers who inhaled the artificial butter flavor used to make microwavable popcorn. A number of cases of popcorn lung have been found to be so severe in some patients that they have required a full-blown lung transplant.

    The Harvard study whipped up a storm of hyperbolic headlines including “Harvard study finds that E-cigarette flavors cause lung disease” and “Chemicals in Flavored E-Cigarettes Tied To ‘Popcorn Lung’ Disease.”

    But the headlines may be shielding the truth about the potential risk of popcorn lung from using e-cigarettes.Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, an expert on e-cigarette research and an opponent of putting diacetyl in e-liquids, writes, “tobacco cigarette smoke contains high levels of diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, on average 100 and 10 times higher,” compared to average e-cigarette exposure.

    Farsalinos draws the disparity between tobacco and e-cigarettes from research conducted by himself and colleagues published in the journalNicotine and Tobacco Researchin 2014.

    Not only are levels of diacetyl far higher in tobacco smoke than e-cig vapor, but the levels of dangerous compounds found in many of the products studied“are absolutely minimal, and it is not expected to raise any concerns about human health effects,” according to Farsalinos.

    Farsalinos adds that the researchers fail to mention the presence of these compounds in tobacco cigarette smoke. “This omission creates the impression that e-cigarettes are exposing users to a new chemical hazard while in reality their exposure will be much lower compared to smoking.”

    He concludes that the study is guilty of “creating false impressions and exaggerates the potential risk from diacetyl and acetyl propionyl exposure through e-cigarettes.”

    But even more concerning for those who may want to exaggerate the risks of using e-cigarettes, is that even tobacco smoke has no identifiable link with any cases of popcorn lung.

    According toCritical Reviews in Toxicology, “smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung).

    Since tobacco smoke contains far higher levels of diacetyl than flavored e-cigarettes and there has not been a single confirmed case of a smoker contracting popcorn lung, the likelihood that vapers will contract this particular lung disease is minimal, to say the least.

    Bill Godshall, executive director of Smokefree Pennsylvania and a long-time anti-smoking activist, is even more damning in his criticism of the Harvard study.

    “This is yet another Department of Health and Human Services-funded study that is intended to deceive and scare the public about vaping to lobby for Food and Drug Administration’s deeming ban.

    “While finding zero evidence of ‘Popcorn Lung,’ the authors are trying to create a public panic,” Godshall tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. Pro-vaping groups are also quick to point out that few people have claimed e-cigarettes are completely free of any health risk.

    Greg Conley, president of the American Vaping Association tells TheDCNF, “in the debate over vaping, the concept of relative risk should not be ignored. Vapor products are a far safer alternative to smoking, but it has long been recognized that they are not 100 percent safe.

    “Earlier this year, a dozen public health groups endorsed Public Health England’s briefing estimating vaping to be approximately 95 percent less hazardous than smoking. Their assessment left room for some unknown risk from ingredients like flavorings.”

    Read more:How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
     

    Alien Traveler

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    How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
    GUY BENTLEY
    11:14 AM 12/09/2015

    A Harvard study claiming most e-cigarette brands expose users to harmful chemicals omits critical information and exaggerates the risks of flavored e-cigarettes, according to tobacco control experts.

    The study, published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, analyzes a host of e-liquid flavors to discover levels of potentially dangerous chemicals diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin.

    The researchers found one or more of the three chemicals in 92 percent of the 51 unique flavors of e-liquid. Diacetyl is identified in 39 of 51 flavors – 75 percent of the total.

    Following the study, an array of media outlets focused on the presence of diacetyl, a chemical used for food flavoring that if inhaled in large amounts can lead to a severe respiratory disease – bronchiolitis obliterans.

    Bronchiolitis obliterans is commonly known as “popcorn lung,” because it was identified in workers who inhaled the artificial butter flavor used to make microwavable popcorn. A number of cases of popcorn lung have been found to be so severe in some patients that they have required a full-blown lung transplant.

    The Harvard study whipped up a storm of hyperbolic headlines including “Harvard study finds that E-cigarette flavors cause lung disease” and “Chemicals in Flavored E-Cigarettes Tied To ‘Popcorn Lung’ Disease.”

    But the headlines may be shielding the truth about the potential risk of popcorn lung from using e-cigarettes.Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, an expert on e-cigarette research and an opponent of putting diacetyl in e-liquids, writes, “tobacco cigarette smoke contains high levels of diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, on average 100 and 10 times higher,” compared to average e-cigarette exposure.

    Farsalinos draws the disparity between tobacco and e-cigarettes from research conducted by himself and colleagues published in the journalNicotine and Tobacco Researchin 2014.

    Not only are levels of diacetyl far higher in tobacco smoke than e-cig vapor, but the levels of dangerous compounds found in many of the products studied“are absolutely minimal, and it is not expected to raise any concerns about human health effects,” according to Farsalinos.

    Farsalinos adds that the researchers fail to mention the presence of these compounds in tobacco cigarette smoke. “This omission creates the impression that e-cigarettes are exposing users to a new chemical hazard while in reality their exposure will be much lower compared to smoking.”

    He concludes that the study is guilty of “creating false impressions and exaggerates the potential risk from diacetyl and acetyl propionyl exposure through e-cigarettes.”

    But even more concerning for those who may want to exaggerate the risks of using e-cigarettes, is that even tobacco smoke has no identifiable link with any cases of popcorn lung.

    According toCritical Reviews in Toxicology, “smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung).

    Since tobacco smoke contains far higher levels of diacetyl than flavored e-cigarettes and there has not been a single confirmed case of a smoker contracting popcorn lung, the likelihood that vapers will contract this particular lung disease is minimal, to say the least.

    Bill Godshall, executive director of Smokefree Pennsylvania and a long-time anti-smoking activist, is even more damning in his criticism of the Harvard study.

    “This is yet another Department of Health and Human Services-funded study that is intended to deceive and scare the public about vaping to lobby for Food and Drug Administration’s deeming ban.

    “While finding zero evidence of ‘Popcorn Lung,’ the authors are trying to create a public panic,” Godshall tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. Pro-vaping groups are also quick to point out that few people have claimed e-cigarettes are completely free of any health risk.

    Greg Conley, president of the American Vaping Association tells TheDCNF, “in the debate over vaping, the concept of relative risk should not be ignored. Vapor products are a far safer alternative to smoking, but it has long been recognized that they are not 100 percent safe.

    “Earlier this year, a dozen public health groups endorsed Public Health England’s briefing estimating vaping to be approximately 95 percent less hazardous than smoking. Their assessment left room for some unknown risk from ingredients like flavorings.”

    Read more:How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
    But we have learnt today that some (exceptionally buttery?) juices can have amount of diacetyl comparable to cigarettes.
     
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    ManiacMedic

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    Which mean you're either advanced, intermediate or paramedic. If you're working in a hospital you're more than likely a tech. At the end of the day, none of those hardly represent enough credentials to substantiate the claims you're trying to make.

    More than likely the "team of physicians" you've spoken too don't have the specialty credentials to deal with it either. Again, you simply emphasized the post I made in regards to adding qualifiers, redirecting and contradicting your statements. You're trying to establish credibility where it does not exist.

    I emphasize with any medical issues you have, as I do have family with respotory issues, but I suggest you actually talk to specialist who deal with the respitory system specifically before you even consider lawsuits as at this point current studies do not link e liquid to your claims. In the future, maybe, but in the present, it does not.

    Ah yes, because it's impossible to hold an nremt-p along side any other licensure.

    My "team of physicians" is based out of a level 1 trauma center in a large metropolitan area.
     

    ManiacMedic

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Mar 31, 2015
    122
    49

    How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
    GUY BENTLEY
    11:14 AM 12/09/2015

    A Harvard study claiming most e-cigarette brands expose users to harmful chemicals omits critical information and exaggerates the risks of flavored e-cigarettes, according to tobacco control experts.

    The study, published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, analyzes a host of e-liquid flavors to discover levels of potentially dangerous chemicals diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin.

    The researchers found one or more of the three chemicals in 92 percent of the 51 unique flavors of e-liquid. Diacetyl is identified in 39 of 51 flavors – 75 percent of the total.

    Following the study, an array of media outlets focused on the presence of diacetyl, a chemical used for food flavoring that if inhaled in large amounts can lead to a severe respiratory disease – bronchiolitis obliterans.

    Bronchiolitis obliterans is commonly known as “popcorn lung,” because it was identified in workers who inhaled the artificial butter flavor used to make microwavable popcorn. A number of cases of popcorn lung have been found to be so severe in some patients that they have required a full-blown lung transplant.

    The Harvard study whipped up a storm of hyperbolic headlines including “Harvard study finds that E-cigarette flavors cause lung disease” and “Chemicals in Flavored E-Cigarettes Tied To ‘Popcorn Lung’ Disease.”

    But the headlines may be shielding the truth about the potential risk of popcorn lung from using e-cigarettes.Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, an expert on e-cigarette research and an opponent of putting diacetyl in e-liquids, writes, “tobacco cigarette smoke contains high levels of diacetyl and acetyl propionyl, on average 100 and 10 times higher,” compared to average e-cigarette exposure.

    Farsalinos draws the disparity between tobacco and e-cigarettes from research conducted by himself and colleagues published in the journalNicotine and Tobacco Researchin 2014.

    Not only are levels of diacetyl far higher in tobacco smoke than e-cig vapor, but the levels of dangerous compounds found in many of the products studied“are absolutely minimal, and it is not expected to raise any concerns about human health effects,” according to Farsalinos.

    Farsalinos adds that the researchers fail to mention the presence of these compounds in tobacco cigarette smoke. “This omission creates the impression that e-cigarettes are exposing users to a new chemical hazard while in reality their exposure will be much lower compared to smoking.”

    He concludes that the study is guilty of “creating false impressions and exaggerates the potential risk from diacetyl and acetyl propionyl exposure through e-cigarettes.”

    But even more concerning for those who may want to exaggerate the risks of using e-cigarettes, is that even tobacco smoke has no identifiable link with any cases of popcorn lung.

    According toCritical Reviews in Toxicology, “smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung).

    Since tobacco smoke contains far higher levels of diacetyl than flavored e-cigarettes and there has not been a single confirmed case of a smoker contracting popcorn lung, the likelihood that vapers will contract this particular lung disease is minimal, to say the least.

    Bill Godshall, executive director of Smokefree Pennsylvania and a long-time anti-smoking activist, is even more damning in his criticism of the Harvard study.

    “This is yet another Department of Health and Human Services-funded study that is intended to deceive and scare the public about vaping to lobby for Food and Drug Administration’s deeming ban.

    “While finding zero evidence of ‘Popcorn Lung,’ the authors are trying to create a public panic,” Godshall tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. Pro-vaping groups are also quick to point out that few people have claimed e-cigarettes are completely free of any health risk.

    Greg Conley, president of the American Vaping Association tells TheDCNF, “in the debate over vaping, the concept of relative risk should not be ignored. Vapor products are a far safer alternative to smoking, but it has long been recognized that they are not 100 percent safe.

    “Earlier this year, a dozen public health groups endorsed Public Health England’s briefing estimating vaping to be approximately 95 percent less hazardous than smoking. Their assessment left room for some unknown risk from ingredients like flavorings.”

    Read more:How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
    At first, I got really excited that you took your time to write out such a long reply, including links to back up your claims, and then I realized it was copy and pasted. I was disappointed. We've all read this.

    My argument is aerosols versus combustion creates a huge temperature difference and a totally separate chemical process. It's apples to oranges really.

    I'm also not claiming BO. BO is a really really big claim. I am claiming fixed airway obstruction though.
     

    ManiacMedic

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    Every state has one or two pulmonologist specialist that specialize is certain areas, not all pulmonologists have extensive experience and up-to-date knowledge of PF, especially IPF, like in the case of the one I go to and guess what, it didn't take him a year to diagnose me, although I think the other 156 "specialist" around my state don't have a bit of trouble mis diagnosing.The really funny part is he thinks if you take out said compound you won't have any lung irritating compounds left in your juice anymore but he's going "to make vaping safer".
    You can speak to me directly.

    IPF should be easy to diagnose if it's even moderate. It is pretty clear even on simple x rays. Flavoring related lung disease would not be visible on an X-ray.... Or even a CT.... Maybe a bronchoscopy there would be hints towards a lung pathology.... It would take some trending.

    But that's for BO. A minor fixed airway obstruction due to flavorings would be chalked up to adult onset asthma, and you would have to push pretty hard to get it looked into further.
     

    sparkky1

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    Ah yes, because it's impossible to hold an nremt-p along side any other licensure.

    My "team of physicians" is based out of a level 1 trauma center in a large metropolitan area.

    Well you should be able to have your BS in no time
    At first, I got really excited that you took your time to write out such a long reply, including links to back up your claims, and then I realized it was copy and pasted. I was disappointed. We've all read this.

    My argument is aerosols versus combustion creates a huge temperature difference and a totally separate chemical process. It's apples to oranges really.

    I'm also not claiming BO. BO is a really really big claim. I am claiming fixed airway obstruction though.

    Would you mind sharing a link to this study of the "huge temperature difference and a totally separate chemical process"
     

    herb

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    But we have learnt today that some (exceptionally buttery?) juices can have amount of diacetyl comparable to cigarettes.


    Some of Five Pawns juices had levels higher than cigarettes so it appears every e juice can have widely varying percentages . With most vapors consuming much much higher quantities of e juice and using high wattage sub ohm builds i will be very very interested to see what pans out over time.

    My basic common sense tells me that why not vape diketone free juice so this conversation won't even be applicable to me.
     
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