Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[ManiacMedic]

Not at all true.

Asbestiosis victims, some were smokers, didn't matter. All that needed to be shown was "exposure" to asbestos.

Just sayin'

which brings me to:





Understood. But we put men on the moon.

Where are the numbers that AREN'T completely unrelated and useless? (Or is the point NOT TO HAVE ANY?)



Are you saying that since 2009, with the billions this industry is generating in $$, that numbers for DAP inhalation by vapers can't be ascertained?

Where are the studies showing exactly how DAP inhalation DOES affect vapers, in 2015, with the hardware and ejuice available today? Dr. F. said reduced FEV-1 on testing, that is a measurable reading......that does imply some lung function damage. I want to know more.


Because this is like that ping pong game before graphic user interfaces on PCs......back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

It just seems to me, in light of the concern the vaping industry has for it's livelihood ---that this isn't being put front and center. (wait, NJOY is sponsoring world wide poker games, Cutwood is sponsoring race cars)

but there is no $$ for studies and testing.

Meanwhile:

Surveys aren't studies.
Vapers' opinions on forums aren't studies.
Laypersons trying to interpret data from the food industry and applying it to vaping aren't studies.
Studies with 10 people in them......aren't real studies either.
Public relations for the vaping campaigns or public relations for the anti smoking campaigns or advertising copy on websites aren't studies.

Let's get the show on the road.

how about it

This^^^^^

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Even if not done much any more open lung biopsy doesn't seem to bad.
How the Test is Performed
An open lung biopsy is done in the hospital using general anesthesia, which means you are asleep and pain-free. A tube will be placed through your mouth down your throat to help you breathe.

The surgery is done in the following way:

• After cleaning the skin, the surgeon makes a small cut in the left or right side of your chest.
• The ribs are gently separated.
• Tissue is taken from the lung and sent to a laboratory for examination.
• After surgery, the wound is closed with stitches.
• Your surgeon may leave a small plastic tube in your chest to prevent air and fluid from building up.

Open lung biopsy: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


I am wondering why we have been smelling them all our lives. Then there's Aroma Theropy.

Regards
Mike

I'm just a simple guy but to me that doesn't seem that much more involved (besides being intubated) than putting in a chest tube. And I've seen that done on conscious people with a local anesthesia. Seemed very painful but not very difficult for the person performing it.

 

[ManiacMedic]

But, but your team of doctors know that vaping caused your still not diagnosed problems. Fascinating!

I never said this. I did say, however, that the patterns are beginning to show a likely extrinsic factor, and it is beginning to look a lot like a flavoring related injury. No one is 100% on anything yet.

But if people are injured due to an untested or unlabeled product, civil action will happen regardless of whether I am personally involved or not. Hell, people who have only vaped for 3 days will be signing up for class action. Guaranteed it will happen if things aren't changed.

 

[ManiacMedic]

So your "small team of physicians" never performed a transbronchial lung biopsy or even thoracoscopic surgery, they don't do "open” thoracic surgery anymore, about the same procedure as removing ovaries as far as incisions, what kind of hospital are you working at a VA ?

Not able to get a large enough sample size in the above procedures to diagnose flavoring related lung illnesses. Actually not even on the list of recommended diagnostic procedures from CDC or ATS.

Plus, my condition hardly warrants even a bronchoscopy at this point.

 

[ManiacMedic]

I'm just a simple guy but to me that doesn't seem that much more involved (besides being intubated) than putting in a chest tube. And I've seen that done on conscious people with a local anesthesia. Seemed very painful but not very difficult for the person performing it.

The incision is a bit bigger but..... Yea.... I've seen my fair share of test tubes and in my current condition, I'm fine, really. I promise you, I'm good.

But if you've performed more than one chest tube, you do begin to forget how much pain is actually involved. You start to remove yourself a bit in the medical field. I walked into a resus room to see a physician doing a chest tube insertion on 2mg Ativan and 100mcg fentanyl.

 

[ManiacMedic]

I haven't been on in awhile, but I'll play along. First, no, causation in this matter does not equal correlation because diacetyl is found in many products, including cigarettes. In facts recent studies have found it to be in a higher quantity in cigarettes than Vape.

Second; before you continue with this, I'm more curious about your "medical expirence". My gut tells me you're working towards your medic license as you mention EMS in your first post. As a former EMT for many years, I can tell you that any level of license is really diddly when it comes to any actual practical medical advice as we treat symptoms, not diagnose.

Whatever you'd like to say is fine. I'm not going to argue credentials. i certainly have a higher licensure than EMT-B. I certainly don't only work in an ambulance. And I certainly never stopped going to school.

 

[puffon]

If one is serious about filing lawsuits, they wouldn't be discussing their "case" in a public forum.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

One must drum up support & participants for class types.
8 people = no lawyer interested.
80 = ambulance chaser type.
800 = top shelf.

A look back at some members previous posts/threads, tells a story.

 

[sparkky1]

ManiacMedic
"being that it's a mild to moderate fixed airway obstruction, decreased fef25-75% and FEV1, with inconclusive HRCT results, it's really becoming a serious option that it is flavoring related"
Ya .......... I can see this awarding you millions in court, though a simple slip and fall at your local walmart might yield an easier payday.
You do realize you will be putting sole liability on said compound that exist in cigarettes which contain a much larger dose than ejuice ?

 

[tj99959]

Didn't take long for this thread to get beaten to death.

Vaping is not, and will never be without risk. That's a fact, so accept it!

Funny how the study fails to mention that a cigarette contain 100 time more Diacetyl than e-liquids.
Also funny that they fail to mention that the researchers have financial ties with BP.

The study was simply a case of

There isn't a bit of new information in it.

Sorry you are having problems Maniac .... guess you should stop vaping.

 

[DeAnna2112]

I never said this. I did say, however, that the patterns are beginning to show a likely extrinsic factor, and it is beginning to look a lot like a flavoring related injury. No one is 100% on anything yet.

But if people are injured due to an untested or unlabeled product, civil action will happen regardless of whether I am personally involved or not. Hell, people who have only vaped for 3 days will be signing up for class action. Guaranteed it will happen if things aren't changed.

Welcome to the land of la la la with fingers in ears!! Anything that is raised as a concern with any aspect of vaping is a gov conspiracy didn't you know. Even if one of our own pro vaping researchers points out red flags..many still stick their fingers in their ears so it doesn't even really matter who the source is that is raising red flags in all honesty.
I am now a ANTZ for saying this as well....rolls eyes and shakes head with silly (((giggles and chuckles)))

 

[Alien Traveler]

Also funny that they fail to mention that the researchers have financial ties with BP.

Are you sure?

 

[sparkky1]

Not at all true.

Asbestiosis victims, some were smokers, didn't matter. All that needed to be shown was "exposure" to asbestos.

Just sayin'

which brings me to:





Understood. But we put men on the moon.

Where are the numbers that AREN'T completely unrelated and useless? (Or is the point NOT TO HAVE ANY?)



Are you saying that since 2009, with the billions this industry is generating in $$, that numbers for DAP inhalation by vapers can't be ascertained?

Where are the studies showing exactly how DAP inhalation DOES affect vapers, in 2015, with the hardware and ejuice available today? Dr. F. said reduced FEV-1 on testing, that is a measurable reading......that does imply some lung function damage. I want to know more.


Because this is like that ping pong game before graphic user interfaces on PCs......back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

It just seems to me, in light of the concern the vaping industry has for it's livelihood ---that this isn't being put front and center. (wait, NJOY is sponsoring world wide poker games, Cutwood is sponsoring race cars)

but there is no $$ for studies and testing.

Meanwhile:

Surveys aren't studies.
Vapers' opinions on forums aren't studies.
Laypersons trying to interpret data from the food industry and applying it to vaping aren't studies.
Studies with 10 people in them......aren't real studies either.
Public relations for the vaping campaigns or public relations for the anti smoking campaigns or advertising copy on websites aren't studies.

Let's get the show on the road.

how about it

Your statement wouldn't hold water in the case for ejuice being that the same said compounds are the same compounds found in cigarettes.
That's like saying the cereal I eat every morning contains asbestos but I contracted mesothelioma from working on a series of job sites that contained asbestos.

 

[tj99959]

Are you sure?

Log In
Harvard sold out to the highest bidders decades ago.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Log In

???

 

[tj99959]

it's a NY Times article (provided the link works)

 

[skoony]

Welcome to the land of la la la with fingers in ears!! Anything that is raised as a concern with any aspect of vaping is a gov conspiracy didn't you know. Even if one of our own pro vaping researchers points out red flags..many still stick their fingers in their ears so it doesn't even really matter who the source is that is raising red flags in all honesty.
I am now a ANTZ for saying this as well....rolls eyes and shakes head with silly (((giggles and chuckles)))

Those type of people irk me too. Good thing there are some here with critical thinking skills to
balance it out.
Regards
Mike

 

[WharfRat1976]

This^^^^^

The asbestosis claims that Manville paid out were limited to employees that worked in a plant for a certain number of years. Years. Everyday exposure to asbestos making material which could not be denied as causal. Proving causal links in medical negligence cases without every day, day to day exposure for years is basically impossible. Any eliquid company will simply file a BK. They have no money to pay and highly doubt they have very high liability insurance limits....assuming you could prove your case.

 

[Racehorse]

The asbestosis claims that Manville paid out were limited to employees that worked in a plant for a certain number of years. Years. Everyday exposure to asbestos making material which could not be denied as causal. Proving causal links in medical negligence cases without every day, day to day exposure for years is basically impossible. Any eliquid company will simply file a BK. They have no money to pay and highly doubt they have very high liability insurance limits....assuming you could prove your case.

You left out the myriad of asbestos mining companies and their workers.

But you are right about bankruptcy.

WR Grace filed in 2001, and by golly, they are back in business as of 2014. They were ordered to pay our government $54 million to clean up the toxic sites they left behind.....I'm sure the taxpayers got to pay that instead.

 

[ManiacMedic]

Welcome to the land of la la la with fingers in ears!! Anything that is raised as a concern with any aspect of vaping is a gov conspiracy didn't you know. Even if one of our own pro vaping researchers points out red flags..many still stick their fingers in their ears so it doesn't even really matter who the source is that is raising red flags in all honesty.
I am now a ANTZ for saying this as well....rolls eyes and shakes head with silly (((giggles and chuckles)))

I respect you very much for this. If you hear of anyone with persistent respiratory symptoms in the Vaping community, please send them my way. I want to compare symptoms and test results. I guess I'll do the legwork to make Vaping safer if everyone else wants to be in la la land.

Sad part is, with a couple revisions, we could nearly eliminate smoking related deaths thanks to Vaping (my opinion). Currently, I firmly believe you can do irreversible damage in under a year with the wrong flavors/wattage/consumption rate.