How the FDA Debacle Down South Will Affect Canadians?

[Hitmetwice]

It doesn't look good for our friends to the south.
I'm wondering what other Canucks think how it
will adversely effect us.

Myself, I'm thinking of grabbing a new Provari while I can.
Not that I'm a big fan of no TC and only 40 watts, but...
if the FDA does not approve them for sale down there we might not be able to get them up here. If our government tries pulling anything like is going on in the U.S. up here,
it may be a prudent move to acquire a dependable device or 2 beforehand.
Of course if the unit does eventually need service, getting it back and forth across the border might be an issue. But with their proven record of building in quality it may be worth taking a chance on a new one. While we can.

The stuff from China is okay, and has nice features and all, it's just they do not seem to last long is my experience. Just tryin' to be proactive and be prepared if the hammer drops on us in Canada anything close to the degree it has down south.

Any thoughts? Cheers.

 

[Hitmetwice]

[QUOTE="

OOOPS dbl post.

 

[WillyZee]

whatever happens with the FDA will trickle to Canada ... Health Canada has already deemed eliquid with nicotine is not allowed in Canada.

Up until now, HC seems to be turning a blind eye to everybody selling nicotine juice in Canada.

Things will be just as bad, if not worse for vaping up here.

 

[Hitmetwice]

That's what I'm thinkin' too, but hope we are both wrong. There are a few areas where our govs differ and I hope this'll be one of them.

It'd be nice if HC leans more towards the UK approach now.
With the new statements from public health england and the royal college of physicians and all.

Yeah, I'm a dreamer. haha.

 

[BreSha6869]

Even if Canada doesn't jump on board with the FDA, we are all forgetting that most of the provinces have their own agenda. Ontario as an example was very close to pulling the trigger on legislation that would completely ban tasting bars, vaping in B&Ms, mandate plain ejuice bottle labels and add heavy taxation to all juice. I don't expect their revisiting and actioning of this is very far away.

IMO, Health Canada WILL do something even if they don't get into lockstep with the FDA. Lots of big tobacco and Pharma in Canada, predominantly in Ontario and Quebec, and we are kidding ourselves if we think they are doing anything different than BT/BT in the US to influence Canada's HC.

I am not building an underground vape bunker, but I am stocking up on NIC, Mods and tanks. I am also leaning towards rebuildibles as I do have concerns about prebuilt coil availability and cost moving forward.

In any case, I am taking this seriously and preparing.

 

[retired1]

HC will lockstep right in with the FDA if the looming court battles fail. I suspect they're going to take a "wait and see" attitude until after the dust settles.

If the FDA wins in the courts, you can bet HC will adopt similar rules for Canada. I'm sure the bean counters are absolutely drooling over the prospect of a cash grab.

 

[vincom]

HC will lockstep right in with the FDA if the looming court battles fail. I suspect they're going to take a "wait and see" attitude until after the dust settles.

If the FDA wins in the courts, you can bet HC will adopt similar rules for Canada. I'm sure the bean counters are absolutely drooling over the prospect of a cash grab.

its too bad they dont lockstep w/britain then, who just happen to be our commonwealth partner

 

[retired1]

There's no cash in it for the government if they go the UK route.

 

[Woofer]

I have no doubt there will be new regs in Canada. I doubt they will be anywhere near as draconian as what the FDA cooked up. Perhaps I am being naive but I don't believe Canadians would tolerate such egregious nonsense.

I surely helps that we have a strong ally from within the tobacco control community in David Sweanor.

Either way I am prepared.

 

[vincom]

There's no cash in it for the government if they go the UK route.

true that, in ont w/this govt were are fracked up the [edited], just read their energy proposal......wow, we need help from this [edited] , and nevermind that she wants ecigs classified as tobacco, which is basically close to what the fda is doing

 

[LarryPer]

I am moving to Cuba

 

[Hitmetwice]

I hear Costa Rica and Guatemala are both very nice. (and affordable as well). Hafta check there stance on vaping, but nuttin' can be worse than the hand U.S. vapers have bin dealt.

 

[BreSha6869]

Crazy thing (as @WillyZee pointed out) is that nic juice is actually NOT confirmed legal in Canada. This market exploded so fast that our govt is still shaking their heads trying to figure out what to do.

Case in point, I have a great 120ml of Cuttwood Boss Reserve and a 30ml of Mother's Milk waiting for me in NYC as I will be there on business next week. If customs finds it at the airport... Buh bye. Confiscated with no penalty.

Crazy times...

Edit... If you try to import Nic or eJuice containing nic into Canada via post, it WILL be confiscated and destroyed. Not sure about on your person, but I wouldn't declare/try to import a large quantity....

 

[WillyZee]

Crazy thing (as @WillyZee pointed out) is that nic juice is actually illegal (NOT legal is a better term) in Canada. This market exploded so fast that our govt is still shaking their heads trying to figure out what to do.

Case in point, I have a great 120ml of Cuttwood Boss Reserve and a 30ml of Mother's Milk waiting for me in NYC as I will be there on business next week. If customs finds it at the airport... Buh bye. Confiscated with no penalty.

Crazy times...

Crazy no doubt ... However, you are allowed to bring it back in person.

Last year, I was coming back from Florida with 8 ProVaris, 5 Kayfuns and 300ml of eLiquid in my carryon ... plus 2 ProVaris in my pocket.

Go figure, they then flag me shipping a 15ml bottle of eJuice buried in a package going into the US.

 

[vincom]

Crazy thing (as @WillyZee pointed out) is that nic ejuice is actually illegal (NOT legal is a better term) in Canada. This market exploded so fast that our govt is still shaking their heads trying to figure out what to do.

Case in point, I have a great 120ml of Cuttwood Boss Reserve and a 30ml of Mother's Milk waiting for me in NYC as I will be there on business next week. If customs finds it at the airport... Buh bye. Confiscated with no penalty.

Crazy times...

Technically ejuice is not illegal, there are no laws in the books about ejuice, cops can not charge anyone w/a crime.
its strictly a health canada safety issue of people buying ejuice outside our borders because it "might" contain nic and consumer has no idea of the dangers associated w/it.
hence health canada has advised customs to not let it cross our borders if bought by the general public.
its perfectly fine to bring through the border if you bought nicorette or tobacco products just as long as you pay your duties of course.
yes its a joke....canadian, EH! its all BS

edit - for shipping into canada it will get flagged, personally bringing it in, idk

 

[BreSha6869]

Crazy no doubt ... However, you are allowed to bring it back in person.

Last year, I was coming back from Florida with 8 ProVaris, 5 Kayfuns and 300ml of eLiquid in my carryon ... plus 2 ProVaris in my pocket.

Go figure, they then flag me shipping a 15ml bottle of eJuice buried in a package going into the US.

I did not know that. Thx!

 

[Hitmetwice]

whatever happens with the FDA will trickle to Canada ... Health Canada has already deemed eLiquid with nicotine is not allowed in Canada.

Up until now, HC seems to be turning a blind eye to everybody selling nicotine juice in Canada.

Things will be just as bad, if not worse for Vaping up here.

The main difference I can see is the FDA has control over tobacco now, in turn they have the ATF
(Alcohol,Tobacco, Firearms) to potentially enforce the deeming.

What does HC have? They don't make the laws. If there were a law making nicotine illegal what agency would enforce it?
The RCMP? hahaha. Bunch of horse lovers in an organization that should be dissolved they are so messed up and irrelevent. That's a joke.

 

[Woofer]

All Federal and Provincial police will enforce it.
Canada Customs and Canada Post will enforce it.

Visa, Paypal, ebay, amazon will enforce it.

This is no joke.

 

[skrymir]

Hey guys I've been away for a while, but I wanted to chime in on this. In effect Health Canada already did what the FDA did way back in 2009:

"These products come as electronic cigarettes, cigars, cigarillos and pipes, as well as cartridges of nicotine solutions and related products. These products fall within the scope of the Food and Drugs Act, and under the Act, require market authorization before they can be imported, advertised or sold. The sale of these health products is currently not compliant with the Food and Drugs Act since no electronic smoking products have been granted a market authorization in Canada."

There are 2 huge differences. 1) Health Canada never showed any interest in enforcing this requirement and 2) E-cigarettes that did not contain nicotine and did not make any health claims were permitted.

And it has been basically radio silence from Health Canada silence on that subject since then. If Health Canada ever decided to enforce the "market authorization" requirement it's pretty much game over for vaping in Canada.

I would love for someone to start a grass roots consumer advocacy group in Canada to help spear head challenges to Health Canada and the provinces. The CVA is underwhelming and centred on business interests no consumer interests.

We have a built in Charter Attack on all anti vaping regulations as users. When the Federal Government tried to shut down InSite in Vancouver the Supreme Court found that it was a violation of peoples section 7 rites (life, liberty, and security of person) because it was taking the ability away from people to make a concious choice to ameliorate their health and that the products and services being supplied were saving lives. In effect the decision set the precedent that governments cannot interfere with products and services that directly benefit peoples health and well-being unless the said products and services interfere with the principal fundamentals of justice. I can't see how any law that bans vaping and restricts it's use beyond reason will survive a charter attack, but the challenge needs to come from us. If there is no suit against it they'll stand forever. The CVA isn't going to help us they are going to help themselves.

Anyone know any good constitutional lawyers?

 

[skrymir]

There's no cash in it for the government if they go the UK route.

No immediate cash (I taxes), but there are tangible monetary benefits of to our health system through fewer doctor and hospital visits and reduced costs from fewer lung cancer and heart disease treatments and surgeries.