for those of you who are stockpiling supplies I have a question. how long can nicotine be stored before it goes bad? anyone who thinks a little regulation may be O.K. is not old enough to remember the slippery slope they took smokers down.vaping has been proven to be the most effective way to quit smoking and has not been shown to be harmful. as Thomas Jefferson once said " a moral man has not only the right but the obligation to violate an unjust law" I rebuild my own coils and make my own juice so nicotine will be the only thing that may become difficult to obtain but I trust the Chinese to see the market and respond to it if the government imposes punitive and restrictive regulations and taxes on it. when I smoked I found a way around tobacco taxes as did many others. this will be no different. the government only has as much control as we give them.
Is vaping doomed
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You may be a "cynical paranoid nut" but detached from reality you are not.
I tend to have a more benign reason for thinking that ECF and other sources of info may disappear. Money. If the deeming regs put most of our favorite vendors six feet under, there will be no advertising budget to fund them. That is the reason I advise folks who are stocking up on DIY supplies to take advantage of the wealth of information contained in these forums, and learn how to safely use these supplies now while the getting is good. If things get tough on that end of things, folks aren't going to be so willing to share this information on the net.
Correlation does not equal causation... Him getting pneumonia has nothing to do with vaping. It's possible he's sensitive to something in the flavors, or possibly even has that mythic PG allergy... or maybe it's just psychosomatic and he sees something that looks like smoke so his body thinks it needs to cough.
I'm sure if you were in a different room, he'd have no issues. Vapor doesn't linger or penetrate the whole house the way that cigarette smoke does.
Andria
Schedule 3 1. 1 "A vaporizer or inhalant-type device, whether called an electronic cigarette or any other name, that contains a power source and heating element designed to heat a substance and produce a vapour intended to be inhaled by the user of the device directly through the mouth, whether or not the vapour contains nicotine."
I should develop a drip tip designed to be vaped through the nose.... THEN the entire section will be void.
One thing is for certain. The landscape is going to drastically change on this industry. No two ways around it. There are multiple motivations across all parties involved in "reigning it in".
I've made myself heard as much as possible but I also know that there simply aren't enough of us even if we all spoke up to change what it coming down the pipe. There will be small victories of course but it's pretty unlikely for any large ones on the really important things. With the lowest hanging fruit being eliquid, I have zero expectations for free flowing juice from 100's of sources at today's prices to continue once the hammer drops.
If there was such a thing as a nicotine bean like a coffee bean where you could just brew a cup then I would be more optimistic. But the nicotine we use comes from a complicated chemical process exclusively using tobacco leaves for the source. It's not something any of us have the capabilities to extract ourselves. So there's the choke and it's an easy one. I personally doubt a black market will exist for nic base. It will be a crime. Yea, moonshine is a black market but not for the masses and few want to risk it. I personally don't want to risk using underground nicotine base. It's not worth it.
Hardware is very low tech even with the latest and greatest regulated mods. I'm not worried nearly as much about hardware as I am about what type of controls will be put on the juice market. The tax math scares me because how will States decide what is equivalent to a pack of cigarettes? Blu claims their disposables are = to 1.5 packs of cigarettes. Of course we know that's not how it works but how will "they" calculate it for a tax stamp? Scary stuff.
IF bottled juice is still permitted, who will be allowed to make it? IMO- only those with deep enough pockets to afford the "approval process". I suppose companies like Johnson Creek stand a decent chance among a handful of others. There will be a swift consolidation in that part of the market and it won't include your corner B&M. They will likely become simple resellers for the fortunate "approved manufacturers". Pretty much like a local beer and wine. Walmart or other large retailers could corner the market with their purchasing power and thin margins if the industry went in that direction.
If bottled nic is permitted then unflavored will be a near certainty. Even if expensive compared to today's market, having unflavored nic leaves the door wide open for folks to make their own flavored blend. Anybody can sell artificial flavor blends for "cooking". The end user just needs to know how much to put in. Easy peasy. I've been DIY for the last 18 months. It's really easy.
Unfortunately (and I hope I'm wrong)....IMHO- the best case scenario would still allow bottled nic and refillable tanks etc but it can only be purchased face to face after a tax stamp is put on it.
I've made myself heard as much as possible but I also know that there simply aren't enough of us even if we all spoke up to change what it coming down the pipe. There will be small victories of course but it's pretty unlikely for any large ones on the really important things. With the lowest hanging fruit being eliquid, I have zero expectations for free flowing juice from 100's of sources at today's prices to continue once the hammer drops.
If there was such a thing as a nicotine bean like a coffee bean where you could just brew a cup then I would be more optimistic. But the nicotine we use comes from a complicated chemical process exclusively using tobacco leaves for the source. It's not something any of us have the capabilities to extract ourselves. So there's the choke and it's an easy one. I personally doubt a black market will exist for nic base. It will be a crime. Yea, moonshine is a black market but not for the masses and few want to risk it. I personally don't want to risk using underground nicotine base. It's not worth it.
Hardware is very low tech even with the latest and greatest regulated mods. I'm not worried nearly as much about hardware as I am about what type of controls will be put on the juice market. The tax math scares me because how will States decide what is equivalent to a pack of cigarettes? Blu claims their disposables are = to 1.5 packs of cigarettes. Of course we know that's not how it works but how will "they" calculate it for a tax stamp? Scary stuff.
IF bottled juice is still permitted, who will be allowed to make it? IMO- only those with deep enough pockets to afford the "approval process". I suppose companies like Johnson Creek stand a decent chance among a handful of others. There will be a swift consolidation in that part of the market and it won't include your corner B&M. They will likely become simple resellers for the fortunate "approved manufacturers". Pretty much like a local beer and wine. Walmart or other large retailers could corner the market with their purchasing power and thin margins if the industry went in that direction.
If bottled nic is permitted then unflavored will be a near certainty. Even if expensive compared to today's market, having unflavored nic leaves the door wide open for folks to make their own flavored blend. Anybody can sell artificial flavor blends for "cooking". The end user just needs to know how much to put in. Easy peasy. I've been DIY for the last 18 months. It's really easy.
Unfortunately (and I hope I'm wrong)....IMHO- the best case scenario would still allow bottled nic and refillable tanks etc but it can only be purchased face to face after a tax stamp is put on it.
You sure about that? May want to do some research. It's really not very hard at all. The fastest and most efficient way is to use a solvent such as hexane or a hydrocarbon, but it can be done using just distilled water. Nicotine is water soluble, and extracting it isn't much harder than making tea or coffee, and then boiling the liquid until crystals are formed. The crystals will be pure nicotine which can then be mixed in with PG or VG to make your solution.
And growing your own tobacco is perfectly legal as long as you don't try to sell it.
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Yes, I'm afraid vaping is doomed.
The folks that will hold sway (lawmakers) have proven that they are not capable of truly understanding what is best for us (of course I'm only speaking for the US members) or even capable of representing the views and wishes of the folks that elected them. They arrogantly believe that they know better then we. I've been on the losing end enough times to believe that this will not end well for vapers.
The folks that will hold sway (lawmakers) have proven that they are not capable of truly understanding what is best for us (of course I'm only speaking for the US members) or even capable of representing the views and wishes of the folks that elected them. They arrogantly believe that they know better then we. I've been on the losing end enough times to believe that this will not end well for vapers.
Do you have any links to threads on this forum where this is confirmed?
Including nicotine testing to prove that an appreciable amount of nicotine is there?
Because I keep hearing "people" saying that it isn't that hard.
And chemists saying that is a pretty difficult process to do it right.
Do you Really think the Average (or even Above Average) Person is going to do a NET using Hexane? Or for that Matter, any Extraction Method?
The defeatest attitudes is what has already lost us this fight IMHO. Get involved or fold to social engineering!
Perhaps from the perspective of many interests, the e-cigarette concern is but a test case. There is a quasi-parallel industry with a potentially broader base that may be on the verge of an explosion of popularity.
I looked into that a while ago. I read a lot of stuff on the internet, some of it on heavy duty home chemistry forums. I ploughed through reports by people who knew a thousand times as much as me putting a huge amount of effort into it. Multiple different solvents, pressurized multi stage filtering rigs, finely controlled temperature regimes, all sorts of complicated stuff. The best they were able to achieve was a fairly low level of extraction with large amounts of unknown contaminants. I read comments from chemists about what kind of equipment it would take to get reasonably pure extract. It's not your backyard moonshine level operation, more along the lines of tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear and a lot of knowledge.
The only people I seen who reckon it's easy are people who haven't tried it yet.
I *have* seen some threads around here about extracting both nicotine and WTA... no, I don't have the links right offhand (I might be able to find a bookmark for the WTA one), but they do exist. I think the main thing is that home-extract nic or WTA would not as "purified" or "refined" as the pharmaceutical sort, and as such might not be able to reach as high a concentration, and possibly it would be cloudy and rather ashy-smelling like TA, but it's certainly possible.
Andria
ETA: here's the WTA link, I thought I had bookmarked it! http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/163352-wta-extraction-success.html
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Maybe if I were smarter I would see that the answer is already in those two sentences. But, you have my attention. Continue.
I've only briefly looked into it. I have read a lot of posts from the resident chemist (Kurt) in the DIY forum. He was pretty specific about how difficult it is to "do it right" and also how risky it can be if you do it wrong.
And hey... everyone keeps talking about "get active!" yada yada yada... and people like me, when we see stuff like that, we're just kinda at a loss, of how exactly one little peon person is supposed to do anything. But there's a huge, active, and very vocal vape community on twitter! Get involved there! #notblowingsmoke is still very active, and there's #BigVapor though it's kinda slowed down -- guess all of us that are BigVapor must be counting our millions... 
I recently got a laptop computer, into which I can plug my other monitor... so I have ECF going on, on the bigger "actual" monitor... and a chrome app called TweetDeck open on the laptop's screen, so I can do both ECF and twitter at the same time... it's a blast!
Andria
I recently got a laptop computer, into which I can plug my other monitor... so I have ECF going on, on the bigger "actual" monitor... and a chrome app called TweetDeck open on the laptop's screen, so I can do both ECF and twitter at the same time... it's a blast!
Andria
I don't really see defeatist attitudes. Just realistic ones. Vaping is a vice. And also a vice that is threatening the revenue from another vice. Vices get controlled and taxed or outlawed to the black market. There's simply no way to walk out of this one unscathed.
Think, "Colorado," "Washington state," and many others leaning heavily in a similar direction.
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