Why would there be no ECF or social media vaping groups? Worst case scenario they ban flavors and tax us into oblivion. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it. There are internet forums dedicated to all kinds of illegal things.
Is vaping doomed
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Why would there be no ECF or social media vaping groups? Worst case scenario they ban flavors and tax us into oblivion. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it. There are internet forums dedicated to all kinds of illegal things.
They cannot ban vaping, if they did, black market will thrive, its not like recreational drugs, there is a million way to obtain a mod and battery. As for e-juice there is also other ways to sell\buy under different description.
I can fully understand if they want to ban it indoors or in public places, even though it does not have any effect on others still vapor that looks like smoke can be annoying to others and cause some discomfort.
I am with regulation, only if fair and justified.
I found it very silly to ban E-cigs yet those nasty analogs are fine. It will take time till its okay, people are always afraid from what's new, this is how societies roll.
I can fully understand if they want to ban it indoors or in public places, even though it does not have any effect on others still vapor that looks like smoke can be annoying to others and cause some discomfort.
I am with regulation, only if fair and justified.
I found it very silly to ban E-cigs yet those nasty analogs are fine. It will take time till its okay, people are always afraid from what's new, this is how societies roll.
This was posted a while back and it's worth posting again. It tells the real story, I just can't believe more aren't talking about it.
This mainly applies to vendors I suppose, the quote is directly from legislation that will be passed by our majority government here in Ontario. It is not good!
"promote”, with respect to electronic cigarettes, means to use any commercial act or practice or to use any commercial communication, through any media or other means, that is intended to or is likely to,
(a) encourage the purchase or use of an electronic cigarette or a brand of an electronic cigarette, or
(b) create an awareness of or association with an electronic cigarette, a brand of electronic cigarette or a manufacturer or seller of an electronic cigarette; (“promouvoir”)
That's hella messed up. Maybe we need less letters to congressmen and more Molotov cocktails (not a serious statement, if you're reading, FBI)
When there's a will, there's a way. If someone is really interested, they'll make the effort -- the internet has been around for a while now, and getting more widespread all the time. If someone isn't really interested, they won't make the effort even if someone handed them a provari and a kayfun for free.
Andria
Yes they can!
Yes they are!
Same as smoking bans, it is being treated like harmful tobacco yet it's harmless in comparison.
It will be taxed as much or more than tobacco yet does not harm or kill like tobacco.
Smokers never stood up for their rights when crazy restrictions and taxes were implemented.
Those continue to become more restrictive and more costly to smokers.
Unless vapers stand up and fight for no restriction AND no taxes on a technology that saves lives and reduces harm, they will, bit by bit, roll right over us. Same as they did with tobacco smokers.
Don't want to be the Big Black Fly in the Wedding Cake.
But the Worst Case scenario is there will be No Liquid e-Liquids. Only Pre-Filled Cartos/Cartridges. Not sure what good a RTA or RDA is if the FDA Restricts Liquid e-Liquids?
Anyone seen a RJ Reynolds Vuse commercial lately?
I would Strongly Suggest that people start getting Active by contacting their State/Fed Reps. And by Supporting Groups like CASAA and SFATA.
Isn't there enough hurdles for a newb starting out already?
People think "banned" means "illegal" most of the older generations that actually care about laws,
won't give vaping a second thought.
(I agree with you Andria and usually agree with your perspective BTW)
There is concern about ECF's ability to continue without vendor advertising and other financial support.
I wish I could say zoiDman is wrong but then again, our society is full of people who get on their knees and take whatever kind of oppression the government doles out, so maybe I'm the one who is wrong... sad thought.
Worse yet... there are people who ASK for it, and support politicians willing to provide it.
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IMHO, even if every smoker on the planet spoke up about rising taxes on cigarettes or their right to smoke in their own business.
Even if every one of them spoke up and signed petitions ... that would still not stop BG from imposing their will
I very much Could be Wrong. And I prey that I Am.
But I know this. That there Isn't going to be Much Outside Help for us. So if We don't Stand Up and do Something, nobody else will.
Long threads about Coming Regulations are Great. And Every ECF Member should know what is going on.
But I we Don't Take this Fight OUTSIDE the ECF, we are going to Lose Big Time.
On the plus side, vaping has passed critical mass - they cannot wipe the trend away with scare tactics and poorly written legislation, though they are still trying.
But there's big big money in the fight - coming from pharma and tobacco companies, and a few misguided legislators who either kiss up to those industries, or who actually believe that vaping is some dangerous new drug craze.
Because of that big money, there is the sad possibility that we'll see some drastic changes making it far more difficult for vaping to thrive as an industry. Many fears, I think, are misdirected, and so I'd like to posit my "Worst Case" so that perhaps some folks can take it into account and strategize:
1) VERY tight regulations and high taxation on Nicotine. This could include "no online ordering" and could include massive registration fees for vendors. You'd see the Nic sourcing reduced to a few big companies. It's POSSIBLE that Nic would ONLY be legally distributed to "registered nicotine VENDORS" (see #2) effectively creating a black market.
2) VERY tight regulations and high taxation on e-liquid containing nicotine. They could require hefty registration fees, lab inspections, and age-verification requirements to process orders. You'd see all the small liquid vendors killed, and a few really large ones would survive, but prices would likely double. I don't see how they can stop someone from selling a flavored VG/PG blend (add your own nic, if you can get some). Call it whatever you want - there's nothing about some food flavoring and Vegetable Glycerin that would allow interference. You'll see labels "For Use In Fog Machines" wink-wink.
3) Many vape shops - B & M's - will die. Well, let's face, many are going to die anyway, as many have a poor business model. But the fact is that the number one area in which a vape shop can profit is the e-liquid. You can't run a storefront selling $20 ecigs in competition with direct-from-china, or selling the OCCASIONAL high end mod in competition with online vendors, or selling coils at $2 a pop. You have to sell a ton of JUICE which has a massive markup.
4) They'll have a tough time stopping people from making, talking about, and buying little boxes that hold a battery, or little steel tanks that screw on a battery tube. So there will still be products to vape with. But the whole INDUSTRY will SLOW DOWN. Why? Because the effect of killing small juice vendors, and many of the small vape shops, will make it LESS EASY for a smoker to decide to try vaping and quit.
5) BT will push their products. I'm starting to see it now, but my expectation hasn't been FULLY realized: I expect them to model their product on the inkjet industry. Where you buy a printer for...well it doesn't MATTER what they charge for it - because the INK costs more than any other substance on earth. When you can't get Nicotine anywhere else, they can then charge $10 for a SEALED, PROPRIETARY CARTRIDGE of liquid that holds about a days' worth of nic. It's like the cashflow from cigarettes, see?
There will be no refilling, the cartridges will only fit that brand battery, etc. I know that's not what we're seeing yet - but it could still happen.
6) If that happens, then you'll see millions of people vaping stick/ego sized devices made by and marketed by big tobacco compannies. And they'll work OK, so those people may NOT move on to more advanced gear the way most of us early adopters did. The Mods and Atomizers a lot of us use and learn about here will become (remain?) a niche market while the masses puff on mass-market commercial vaping products from a few big companies.
At least people will vape...but they'll do it at the high price of smoking, and with products that benefit the same companies they used to buy cigs from.
Not me though.
The minute the nic regulation part of my prediction begins, I will complete the acquisition of everything I need to keep vaping my own liquid, wrapping and wicking coils for my growing collection of atomizers, for the rest of my life.
That'll cost about $200.
But there's big big money in the fight - coming from pharma and tobacco companies, and a few misguided legislators who either kiss up to those industries, or who actually believe that vaping is some dangerous new drug craze.
Because of that big money, there is the sad possibility that we'll see some drastic changes making it far more difficult for vaping to thrive as an industry. Many fears, I think, are misdirected, and so I'd like to posit my "Worst Case" so that perhaps some folks can take it into account and strategize:
1) VERY tight regulations and high taxation on Nicotine. This could include "no online ordering" and could include massive registration fees for vendors. You'd see the Nic sourcing reduced to a few big companies. It's POSSIBLE that Nic would ONLY be legally distributed to "registered nicotine VENDORS" (see #2) effectively creating a black market.
2) VERY tight regulations and high taxation on e-liquid containing nicotine. They could require hefty registration fees, lab inspections, and age-verification requirements to process orders. You'd see all the small liquid vendors killed, and a few really large ones would survive, but prices would likely double. I don't see how they can stop someone from selling a flavored VG/PG blend (add your own nic, if you can get some). Call it whatever you want - there's nothing about some food flavoring and Vegetable Glycerin that would allow interference. You'll see labels "For Use In Fog Machines" wink-wink.
3) Many vape shops - B & M's - will die. Well, let's face, many are going to die anyway, as many have a poor business model. But the fact is that the number one area in which a vape shop can profit is the e-liquid. You can't run a storefront selling $20 ecigs in competition with direct-from-china, or selling the OCCASIONAL high end mod in competition with online vendors, or selling coils at $2 a pop. You have to sell a ton of JUICE which has a massive markup.
4) They'll have a tough time stopping people from making, talking about, and buying little boxes that hold a battery, or little steel tanks that screw on a battery tube. So there will still be products to vape with. But the whole INDUSTRY will SLOW DOWN. Why? Because the effect of killing small juice vendors, and many of the small vape shops, will make it LESS EASY for a smoker to decide to try vaping and quit.
5) BT will push their products. I'm starting to see it now, but my expectation hasn't been FULLY realized: I expect them to model their product on the inkjet industry. Where you buy a printer for...well it doesn't MATTER what they charge for it - because the INK costs more than any other substance on earth. When you can't get Nicotine anywhere else, they can then charge $10 for a SEALED, PROPRIETARY CARTRIDGE of liquid that holds about a days' worth of nic. It's like the cashflow from cigarettes, see?
There will be no refilling, the cartridges will only fit that brand battery, etc. I know that's not what we're seeing yet - but it could still happen.
6) If that happens, then you'll see millions of people vaping stick/ego sized devices made by and marketed by big tobacco compannies. And they'll work OK, so those people may NOT move on to more advanced gear the way most of us early adopters did. The Mods and Atomizers a lot of us use and learn about here will become (remain?) a niche market while the masses puff on mass-market commercial vaping products from a few big companies.
At least people will vape...but they'll do it at the high price of smoking, and with products that benefit the same companies they used to buy cigs from.
Not me though.
The minute the nic regulation part of my prediction begins, I will complete the acquisition of everything I need to keep vaping my own liquid, wrapping and wicking coils for my growing collection of atomizers, for the rest of my life.
That'll cost about $200.
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IMHO, even if every smoker on the planet spoke up about rising taxes on cigarettes or their right to smoke in their own business.
Even if every one of them spoke up and signed petitions ... that would still not stop BG from imposing their will
I'm not sure I would Fully agree with BG is Unstoppable.
Will e-Liquids be Taxed. Yes... Yes they will. But should e-Liquids be Taxed at a Rate that is Higher than what a PAD Smoker pays?
Sometimes Winning is Stopping the Worst from Happening. And not Stopping Everything from Happening.
I do hope that everyone in ECF who puts forth effort to stock up puts the same effort into advocating.
I believe that Face-2-Face Only Sales is all but a Given. And I don't think there is going to be any 2 Year phase out period for this.
BTW - I remember Not to long ago when People Talked about what you mentioned in your post that they were called "Doomsdayers" or even "ANTZ".
Funny how as we get closer, and with 29 current CTA's, that Members seem to be talking things a Little More Seriously.
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