Long term storage of concentrated nic

[uzzaperez]

Most e-liquids are normally reported to have about a 2 year shelf life. Is this true for DIY 100mg nic liquid?

What are the recommended methods for storage that might extend the storage life of concentrated liquid?

 

[Kurt]

Most e-liquids are normally reported to have about a 2 year shelf life. Is this true for DIY 100mg nic liquid?

What are the recommended methods for storage that might extend the storage life of concentrated liquid?

Read this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/43742-smoke-juice-storage-tips.html

In it I describe how I processed for storage and safe usage 500 mL of 100 mg VG, very thick stuff! Be advised, 100 mg e-liquid is dangerous. As a chemist, I think this method is the best, and should keep the juice usable for a lot longer than 2 years. The thread is a touch long, but will give you the info you need. Contains links to containers I used. I started using this method with 35 mg juice, but then applied it to 100 mg. Good luck, and post or PM me if you have questions.

 

[Switched]

Yup! it's the PG and VG in everything that expires including flavouring:

• PG has a shelf life of 2 years; and
• VG has a shelf life of 1.5-2 years.

Long term storage of Nic can be done in the freezer but does not slow down the breaking down process significantly.

 

[uzzaperez]

Thanks guys for the info and the link to the other thread, a lot of good info in there.

Here is a very informative exchange I had with Levy Roberts from xtremevaping.com - they sell nic in concentrations up to 100mg/ml and have good prices. Note that in the last part of the chain Levy says it is okay if I post his comments here. He also mentions he's preparing a nic FAQ so I'll be looking forward to that.

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Looking at some 100mg liquid with the purpose of storing it for DIY. Is there a recommended method for longer term storage that might extend the life beyond the normally reported 2 year life span? Thanks!
Uzza

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It is not the Nicotine that has an expiration date.
It is the PG and/or VG that expires.
Nicotine will not lose it's strength over time, it just oxidizes, turns yellow or brownish.
PG and VG will sour, and ruin the flavor.
For long term storage, I recommend diluting to 60mg or less, storing in glass of some type with as little air in the bottle as possible.
Once stored, do not repeatedly open the container, as every time it is opened, you are letting fresh oxygen into the container.
If it is PG, it can be stored in the deep freezer, and even VG can be frozen, but might develop crystals.
Below is some stuff on PG and VG, it might help.
From DOW Chemical's website:
Storage
PG USP/EP has a shelf life of two years when stored below 40°C (104°F) in closed containers away from sources of ultraviolet (UV) light.

GLYCERIN

Pure glycerine has a freezing point of
about 17°C (62.6°F). Glycerine,
however, is seldom seen in a crystallized
state due to its tendency to
supercool. The presence of small
amounts of water within a glycerinewater
solution also inhibit crystallization,
which may depress its
freezing point.

To minimize quality degradation,
glycerine should be used and
stored below 54°C (130°F).

But given its severely limited shelf life, extracts made from Vegetable Glycerine typically have a shelf life of 14-24 months whereas alcohol extracts can have an extended shelf life of 4-6 years.

I hope this helps
Levy

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That is a huge help. Thank you so much for responding quickly. My only question would be why dilute it to 60mg or less? Why not store it at 100mg if it is the PG/VG that will tend to go bad? Thanks again.
Uzza

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PG and VG do not like the high concentration of nicotine.
Sometimes, not all the time, there will be a chemical reaction that will give VG a pinkish tint.
It does not hurt the liquid, nor does it change the taste or lose strength, it just disturbs some people.
It is a normal occurrence of high nicotine content, so I just recommend diluting to 60mg or less.
Darkening of the liquid is expected as it ages, it is oxidization and can not be helped.
Thanks
Levy

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Thanks again. One more question...do you mind if I post your comments in the ECF forum? I have a thread up with some related questions and these are good answers.
Uzza

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I don't have a problem with it.
Dvap and I have run tests with different brands of PG and VG, and DVap has tried different suppliers of Nicotine,
All with the same result. He recommends diluting to under 60mg, so therefore, I accept his opinion and findings.
Who am I to argue with a Chemist? LOL
The other info is available on the web, as well as Dow Chemicals website.
I am putting together a FAQ on Nicotine, PG and VG that will cover all of this, but it will be a few days.
Thanks
Levy

 

[emus]

Yup! it's the PG and VG in everything that expires including flavouring:

• PG has a shelf life of 2 years; and
• VG has a shelf life of 1.5-2 years.

Long term storage of Nic can be done in the freezer but does not slow down the breaking down process significantly.

Interesting.

I stash my juice in the freezer.

How did you discover the freezer does not slow down the breaking down process of Nic juice significantly?

Maybe I missed a post?

 

[Switched]

It simply doesn't. FWIR although not as quick reacting, the chemical breakdown will occur regardless, perhaps not as quickly let's say as if stored in a cool dark place, but it still breaks down in the freezer.

I believe promoting anything over the known data would be reckless IMHO, therefore I don't. If folks want to disregard safeguards, they are welcome to do this also.

Why are vendors using a 1 year expiry date on their liquids. Do they know something we don't. These liquids are claimed to be batched fresh.

 

[emus]

If I can slow the decomposition by freezing I will be happy.
My freezer stash will hit the 1 year mark this August.
Time will tell.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Kurt]

While I cannot speak for vendors themselves, there is a mandatory 1 year expiration date for all pharma drugs, and this applies to pharm nic that is used for making ejuice. The 1 year expiration is by law, regardless of whether the material or drug has actually changed significantly in 1 year.

While I don't have all the answers about ejuice reactions, I am a chemist of 30 years and know a fair amount about it. The primary reaction is nic reacting with O2. The product is yellow/brown, depending on the concentration. The reaction is limited to the amount of O2 present in the VG or PG, and this amount is generally very low. If the bottle is sealed and not opened, this reaction will stop once the trace O2 has all reacted. This generally equates to a fraction of a % of the total nic amount, but that small amount of oxide product can significantly color the juice.

Freezer temps will slow this, and I think in the case of VG-only juices, effectively stop it, since VG becomes almost solid at freezer temps. PG is still quite liquid. So if the mobility of the nic and O2 molecules is halted, they cannot find each other to react. reaction stops.

The other reason I freeze is for slowing any biological growth, like bacteria, which are virtually impossible with PG, but slightly possible with VG, which is what I use. So it is likely overkill, but peace of mind is peace of mind.

I should mention that I have had a 50-mL bottle of 100 mg VG unflavored out at room temp and dispensed from continually since Jan. It is slightly yellow, like the color of egg whites, while it was initially colorless as water when I bottled it. The rest of that Jan shipment went into a cold-room over the rest of the winter, and then into the freezer when the weather got warm. That liquid is still colorless as water. So either the cold or the fact that it was sealed and not opened has effectively slowed the oxidation, if not stopped it.

The fact is unless the nic is exposed to O2, there is very little nic will do. It doesn't just fall apart spontaneously over time. Remove O2 (and moisture), and nic will last indefinitely. With cold temps, VG or PG should too. The 24 month expiration for PG or VG is at room temp and exposed to the air.

So people are certainly free to toss an unflavored ejuice after a year, but if you are going to do that, send it to me. If it is unopened and sealed, even if it is stored in just cool and dark, it will be just fine.

 

[Switched]

Thanks Kurt. I know if we create enough controversy someone with credentials will chime in.

 

[Hagbard Jones]

Nicotine is good for two years from date of extraction from the leaves of tobacco before it starts to break down.

The day someone mixed your e-juice is not the starting point for the two year disintegration of nicotine. Some juices may have been mixed yesterday but the nicotine may be 16 months old. It is very nice to know when a flavor mix was made but it is 100% more important to know what day the nicotine was extracted. This may explain why some testing shows little or no nicotine delivery from juices in studies which I am sure some testers play off when testing due to the ignorance of buyers.

Then again I got a bottle in trade and the mix date reads 5/01/10. I will never buy from this seller since they can't even label correctly.

 

[IsaacHomer]

Then again I got a bottle in trade and the mix date reads 5/01/10. I will never buy from this seller since they can't even label correctly.

Maybe it was a British formatted date.

 

[daisyd]

I realize this is a very old thread, and there may be newer ones, but I found it through links and searching so please forgive the age.
I have well over 200 ml of niquid that when all mixed together will come to 30mg and approx 80/20 PG/VG. They are different nic amounts from different vendors, but after several times verifying through the juice calculator, the nic is correct. I have a large glass bottle and a wine vaccum cork (it's a rubber cork that you stick in a bottle and vaccum all the air out with a pump). I am wanting to know if this will suffice to keep the nic for ~1 to 1 1/2 years. I will likely only be taking it out of the freezer once a month at which point I plan to let it warm to room temp before breaking the seal, using a pipette to remove the required amount of nic and then re-vaccuming it and re-freezing it. The bottle is clear glass, but will be stored in a black fabric sleeve to keep out light. My biggest concern with this plan is the thawing and freezing. I know I could get smaller bottles to store it in, but freezer space is a premium in my little side-by-side freezer, so finding a spot for one bottle that will stay the most constant temp will be a LOT easier than finding one for 10 smaller bottles. If there is a glaring problem with this plan I would like to know. TIA

 

[emus]

I've stored unflavored juice in freezer since sept 2009 w/ no problems.
juice still clear and strong.

 

[daisyd]

Thank you! I'm thinking of stocking up before any weird taxes can go into effect... Nearly 2 years is a good long while.

 

[mostlyclassics]

I'm not an organic chemist, but I am an occasional pipe smoker in addition to being a vaper.

Dedicated pipe smokers frequently age their tobacco because many varieties and mixtures benefit significantly from some years on them. The consensus is that Virginias (with their high sugar content) age best, followed by various "condiment" tobaccos (orientals and perique), followed by Kentuckys. Burleys don't seem to change much with decades on them. Latakia just fades somewhat in intensity but becomes more complex. Various "aromatics" (flavored) tobaccos don't do much other than have the added flavorings fade over time.

While factory-made, vacuum-packed tins bought from the tobacconist are popular, so is obtaining glass canning jars and packing bulk tobacco mixtures. The canning jar technique involves simply washing out the jars, lids and seals (if separate), letting them air-dry, then packing the tobacco in the jars with a shortened broomstick to eliminate as much airspace as possible. Note: there is no sterile technique involved, and there's still some air in the jars. Right now, I have a couple of hundred tins plus probably 75 pounds of bulk tobacco in my basement tobacco cellar, all waiting for the years and decades to work their magic.

Most pipe tobacco mixtures do have some additives, but the best candidates for ageing have a minimum. Propylene glycol is ubiquitous in mixtures that benefit from ageing and might account for as much as ½% of a tobacco mixture, but there aren't any preservatives. Water is generally 8-12%. Other than that, you have a lot of vegetative matter (the shredded tobacco leaves) with associated micro-flora all working together in the tin or jar with a fair amount of air. While I've not actually checked the pH, my guess from tasting raw tobacco is that the water in the tobacco mixures might be around 4.5-6 pH — not very low. (Wines suitable for ageing, for instance, usually have a pH of 3 or lower and also rely on a bit of sulfur dioxide — 50-75 ppm — for preservation.)

Last night I enjoyed a pipeful of Dunhill's "My Mixture 965" which had been jarred in early 2001, and it was wonderful. Often I enjoy some 20 year old Kentucky, which spent most of its ageing time in bales in a tobacco barn — not jarred or anything. I've smoked some 30 year old Virginias which were vastly superior to their younger equivalents. And pipe tobacco literature is rife with reviews of pre-World War II aged mixtures. The older mixtures I've smoked have not lacked for nicotine.

So, I suspect that in the real world, the nicotine molecule is pretty durable. And PG will endure for a good long time in the microenvironment of a tobacco ageing jar without adding anything nasty to the pipe tobacco via its breakdown.

Your mileage may vary, of course . . . and my experiences apply only to pipe tobacco.

 

[emus]

Interesting.
I had some nicorette which was good for several years.
Some years in the attic.
It lasted roughly 10 years before going bad.
I 'm predicting properly stored nic will last several years.
I'm getting more and more interested in zero; not worried about nic ban/price anymore.