M40x cartomizers??

Discussion in 'M-401/402 "Mini" & M403 Super Mini' started by keelalagirl55, Feb 3, 2011.

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  1. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Is Vapor Junction the only one that has the cartos for the 400 series? I checked all on the list of the "400 series suppliers" and didn't see any of them with cartos.
  2. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    bump once....just in case
  3. flbutterfly1

    flbutterfly1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

  4. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    I didn't see any CE2 R4 atomizer cartridges listed for the m401 series e-cigarettes listed at Liberty Flights. For all I know, at least on this continent (at least for now), Vapor Junction is it. Since I've ordered some stainless steel m402 batteries from LiteCigUSA, Vapor Junction having only stainless steel m401 cartomizers does not bother me. I like the idea of an all stainless steel unit the size of an m402. My usual black batteries tend to start losing their painted on finish eventually anyway, though it usually takes several months for the first chips to appear. After that they start pealing and looking ugly fast.

    I put in an order with Vapor Junction for this latest CE2 revision cartomizer tonight. Just one 5-pack, to check these things out and see if they really can be the bee's knees. Not sure if I will end up modding them at all. It just depends on how well they work out and how user friendly they are to maintain. Refilling them doesn't seem to be all that much of an issue, but having to clean them out once and awhile to keep using them again and again might be. I'm used to just refilling the same old cartridges I got months ago without much fuss. Mostly all I've paid for so far is regular supplies of e-liquid and occasional forays into trying out other new gear.

    The experiments with trying out other e-cigarette models (like the m601) haven't worked out too well, and in the end have turned out to be a waste of money overall. Oh well, the same may turn out to be the case with these new E2 cartomizers. They are not expensive, only about $13 with shipping for the 5-pack, with a syringe tip, so I won't be out much if these things suck. I will update here on how they work out for me with an m402 setup (seems not a lot of folks are doing that at this point). I'll be using what are typically 50/50 PG/VG e-liquid flavors from Halo, FreedomSmokeUSA, and Backwoods Brew. Supposedly these cartomizers prefer PG rather that VG e-liquids, but there is some debate on that and the reasons why.

    Of course, you might just be referring to regular m401 series cartomizers, but those are available from more domestic suppliers than just Vapor Junction or Liberty Flights. I've had no experience with either one as a product supplier, so I can't comment on how good either one may or may not be. User reviews on Vapor Junction sound okay. I haven't looked into Liberty Flights much, just looked at their website and saw they don't have what I want right now. Have any of you used these CE2 R4 cartomizers (or possibly an earlier revision?) on an m401 series e-cigarette? And if so, how did it go?
  5. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Thanks for the input.....I am getting the M40x kit from LiteCigUSA for my mom....the kit that has all 3 batts in it....and I wanted to get her some cartos as I think it will make a HUGE diff in getting her off analogs.....will have to keep my eyes open for reviews of vapor junctions cartos.

    Please let me know your opinion billybc96 when you get them
  6. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Just checked the link....thanks flbutterfly I think I will get those and the ones from Vapor Junction and see which ones last better for her.
  7. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    She'll be fine just using regular refillable cartridges at first. The standard m401 series gear works well, the newer cartomizers might just make them even cooler. Did you get a PCC as well? (Highly recommended, but not absolutely necessary if she'll have 3 batteries.) Are you getting her any e-liquid, or are you just using factory filled cartridges for now? Just curious. I think the refilling route is better in the long run, and flavors are usually better, but she might not want to mess with that at first.
  8. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    I posted this elsewhere tonight, but I figure I had better post it here at this thread as well. I hope the info is helpful.

    I finally just got my package of CE2 R4 cartomizers from Vapor Junction. Nicely packaged for what it is worth, but for the life of me I don't understand why so many of our suppliers use such over-sized boxes for such small shipments. Oh well, whatever, the shipping method works. I was eager to start using these things right away, and am using my first one right now. I've had little experience when it comes to using cartomizers before, so keep that in mind when you read the rest of this post.

    Filling the thing using the standard method wasn't all that hard, but it does help to have read dozens of posts on the subject here at ECF before attempting to do so (including this thread right here). Luckily I had a small syringe for the job I got for free months ago from an Intellicig e-liquid order. I'm not sure using one of my other larger syringes would have worked at all with the one little flexible tip you get with your cartomizer order from Vapor Junction. After using the vaporizer for a short period of time I tried topping the device off and reassembling the device per Adik Ted's recommendation. I used a small paperclip with one end slightly bent and curved by a small pair of pliers. Turned out to be not that difficult to get the 3rd (innermost) ring out. It is semi-clear, and fairly flexible, but it is in the tube pretty tight. Care has to be taken so as not to damage the ceramic cup assembly, so I used only a very small but sharp curve on the end of the paperclip to achieve the task. Momentarily I was worried, but it ended up popping out without too much trouble. You just have to be carefully at what angle you are leveraging the paperclip. (You will have to leverage it using the cartomizer tube outer wall.) I used a vinyl coated paperclip, which I then cut the vinyl coating off of at just the very tip where I then bent it to use as a hook. Having the vinyl coated portion of the paperclip intact where it made contact against the cartomizer's outer wall probably helped keep the paperclip from sliding around and doing unwanted damage. The hook in the paperclip only has to be a very few millimeters in length to be effective.

    Now that I've topped off and have reassembled the cartomizer, using only the reversed 3rd inner ring and the white end plug piece (with the 2nd inner ring completely removed from the assembly), I am now trying to figure out if I like these things or not. Right now it is hard to say. The vapor volume production and flavor delivery don't seem much different from a standard atomizer/cartridge arrangement. My one much older m402 battery isn't really performing as well as it used to, so I switched to my slightly newer battery (still waiting on a new battery set delivery from LiteCigUSA). It is still hard to say if either one is any better than the other as far as basic performance goes. I fully expect the cartomizer to keep going a lot longer without having to be switched out or refilled, and that is the biggest overall difference so far.

    Flavor taste seems a bit different, though I can't put my finger on the exact difference. I think the cartomizer delivers more throat hit, but I can only distinctively feel the difference in my nose, not my throat so much. Leakage has not been a problem at all so far, in either the 2 or 3 ring configuration. I will probably get more out of these cartomizers when I get my m402 batteries that don't have the automatic cutoff feature many people find annoying.

    A fully assembled m402 with the cartomizer attached is only about 1mm longer than a standard cartridge/atomizer setup on an m402, maybe even less. The stainless steel finish on the cartomizer very nearly matches the one on the stainless steel battery I currently have, which makes for a very non-analog cigarette looking package. The look of using the stainless steel finished cartomizer on my black m402 battery actually looks alright. I kind of even like it. Oh well, too late to order black batteries instead of stainless steel right now. I'll have to try these cartomizers out for much longer than the last hour or two I've been using one if I'm going to be giving an honest opinion on them. The big thing will probably be how much vaping I get out of one before it has to be refilled. This one I'm using now I filled with liquid all the way up to the top of the inner ceramic cup that holds the atomizer coil. I still needed a fairly small syringe head to do that, but I didn't need the tiny flexible one that came with my cartomizer 5-pack. I could've probably dripped too, but with the cartomizer at an angle. I don't think I would have not gotten quite as much e-liquid in that way, but I may just need practice.

    As a side note, I also got my 12mg Halo Torque56 today, but have not tried it with the new cartomizers yet. Instead, I'm using it with a 3-piece m601 I don't use much these days, mainly because it is a ridiculously oversensitive automatic. It does produce good vapor though, just not particularly incredible taste. I like the Halo Torque56. Previously I had tried a small 18mg sample size of it many months ago. At the time I thought it was overpowering, but that it had potential. I have always wanted to try it in a lower nicotine level. Apparently the lower nicotine level helps. Unlike Halo's Freedom e-juice, which is perhaps more sweet by comparison, the Torque56 is a bit more nutty in flavor, and also more tobacco-like overall. It is still a bit sweet, as a tobacco flavor probably should be, but the nuances are different. It also has more woody flavor components, and I think it is maybe a bit less chemical-like in flavor than the Freedom e-juice, even without steeping.

    Anyway, that's more than enough for now. I'll get back to you folks later.
  9. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aha! I see now, at least in 2-ring modded form, that the cartomizer will leak some if you store it with the cartomizer end facing straight down. Now I'll have to try that with an unmodified (3-ring) cartomizer and see what happens. Maybe I can play around with using the 2nd ring instead of the reversed 3rd ring? Draw did seem better just using 2 rings instead of 3, I'd like to keep that better draw somehow, without any leakage issues.
  10. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Yay! At least using all 3 rings normally, no leakage issues at all, regardless of which way anything is pointing. That's good, but I still think I'll check into simple modifications to improve the draw. I might even just go back to the 2-ring method and store my active e-cigarettes better, but that sounds like a hassle. I can see why people have mixed opinions on these.
  11. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Thank you for your review. As this is for my mom (who is EXTREMELY spoiled!!!) and I want her to be able to vape for a time before having to switch or top off, I am hoping that these will work for her.

    lol...by spoiled...I mean REALLY REALLY spoiled....whenever possible she is most happy to let me or my brother do for her (ie...store run for analogs....pump gas....get her coffee....lol but she is very appreciative). She at this point wants a mostly hassle free vape (yea right!!!) so I forsee my brother refilling multiple cartos for her.....so she won't have to mess with it....lol..lol...
  12. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Yes, simpler definitely sounds like the better way to go for your mom there. I think simpler is probably best for most of us, including myself. I am willing to jump through an extra hoop or two, like refilling cartridges with my own e-liquids, if the pay off for the effort is there. Refilling standard refillable cartridges isn't all that big a deal anyway, but I can certainly see how your mom would probably prefer not to even hassle with that! My mom wouldn't, but she doesn't smoke or drink either.

    I've ended up just using the 2nd inner ring, reversed, as an e-liquid seal, with the 3rd inner ring completely removed. So far I don't seem to be having any leakage problems that way, and I get somewhat better airflow for a better draw. Dripping down the inner sides of the cartomizer tube isn't a very good way to fill these things, as it is still too easy to get globs of e-liquid going down the center air tube. Not a complete disaster if that happens. If it does, you can blow the inner air tube dry much like you might blow out a regular atomizer from the thread side. Only with one of these cartomizers, you have to blow on it from the other side, OUT the thread side. It also takes a lot more blowing for a lot longer to get the job done. You don't want to have to do that more than once if you don't have to. 3-piece model e-cigarettes are so much easier to maintain, simply because they are so much easier to break down into their separate component parts.

    With the 3rd inner ring out and removed, hopefully never to return (but we'll see about that later), filling the cartomizer with a more standard syringe tip of any type is much easier. I'd still say using a syringe of some kind is the better way to go. At least without the 3rd inner ring, you don't have to mess with using that tiny syringe tip through those tiny holes, and it is more clear to the naked eye when your cartomizer's reservoir is full. At this point, I've still only been playing around with my first cartomizer out of the 5-pack. For all I know, all the other cartomizers might be even more of a royal pain to deal with, or they might not even work. They are all nicely blister packaged, so hopefully that is a good sign of some sort.

    I'm still not completely sold on using these things with an m401 series battery. With at least one of the inner rings removed, the draw is slightly better than that of a 3-piece m402. I think the vapor production of these cartomizers is less by comparison, though perhaps only by a small margin. (That being said, good vapor production is an important issue, with more usually being considered better.) Flavor delivery is almost identical. Very hard to make out much difference there. The 2-piece design setup you get when using a cartomizer instead of an atomizer and cartridge is more solid feeling in your hand (no loose cartridges to fall off), but the in mouth weight is a bit heavier too. That didn't bother me, but it might bother some other folks.

    The only thing the CE2 R4 cartomizer has going for it for me at this point is a much bigger e-liquid capacity (at least double that of what I'm used to). I'm not sure that is enough to justify the slight increase in upkeep cost, hassle of refilling, and modest loss of vapor production, along with questionable long term durability. I'll keep try these out, maybe eventually doing a PTB modification down the road, but my first experiences with these devices just really hasn't blown me away. They at least fit perfectly fine in my PCC box, so that is good news. I'll be able to carry these and my more regular 3-piece gear all at the same time. Eventually I'll make up my mind which I prefer, but I think you already have a good idea which I prefer, right?
  13. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    lol..Yep...and thanks again for all your input. I could always mod the carts to remove most of the filler and use the straw method to hold more juice. I have not personally tried to see how well it would wick, but it is a thought.

    with the carto rings, I saw a youtube video doing a teabag mod and in that vid he showed his inner ring....he mad the center hole bigger by cutting it away.....let me see if I can find it again. That might help for your draw and maybe even be able to use the 3rd ring to prevent the leakage......

    okay...found it...now it is for the E2, but it might still work

  14. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    I'm on my second CE2 R4 cartomizer right now. First thing I noticed was that the wick within the coil element was white, and the coils looked metallic in color. On my last cartomizer, the wick and the coil were black straight out of the sealed packege (though the unit itself appeared otherwise clean). This is the same blister pack, but this second cartomizer out of it is clearly different in how "clean" it looks inside by comparison. Unusual, I've read about this sort of thing, but never expected to experience it myself, especially since Revision 4 has been out awhile now.

    I also just got my new LiteCigUSA m402 batteries, automatic, in polished stainless steel. They certainly are bright and shiny, with blue LED tips, but they were also lighting up occasionally as I was getting them out of the shipping envelope, which indicates to me they might be a little oversensitive compared to my old Intellicig batteries. I tested them with good results in front of a loud speaker at home, but I won't know if they will be okay sensitivity-wise until I test them while driving in my car. Unlike the Intellicig batteries, the LiteCigUSA batteries clearly have no automatic cutoff feature, at least not that I can tell. I can draw on them pretty much continuously if I wanted to. Pretty cool. I just hope they pass the car vibration noise sensitivity test.

    As I'm typing this, I now have one of the new batteries and the 2nd cartomizer screwed together. Refilling the 2nd cartomizer was a little easier than the first one. The fit of the inner seal rings was not as tight. I just have it reassembled normally. No reversed or removed seal rings. The stainless steel finish on the cartomizer is a bit darker (almost more gray) than that on the battery, but that's okay. Gives a slight (barely noticeable) two-tone look. Nice looking setup, but maybe not as much character as other colors and combinations might give. You don't have to worry about your paint finishing rubbing or chipping off though. I guess the aesthetics of such things are very much a matter of personal opinion. The silver cartomizer can look good combined with other colors, so you can use them with whatever you like without it looking "weird". (But I guess that's a matter of opinion too, eh?)

    This 2nd cartomizer is performing better than the 1st one did. Taste is better. Vapor production is better. Even the internal e-liquid capacity of the thing seems great, though externally it is exactly the same size. The draw is also fine, though it is still different than what you get when using a regular cartridge and atomizer instead. I'm still thinking that flavor delivery is below that of a standard setup, but it may simply be "different" in nature, and nothing more or less than that. Hard to say at this point. Even with all of its ring seals back in position where they belong, I am having some leakage from the device. I may have just overfilled it, so I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'm just going to try to enjoy the device while I sit at the computer and get some "real" work done.

    I don't think I will be trying any modifications of this setup anytime soon. I will update if I have any further developments to report, like how cleaning and using these over and over again works out. The e-liquid capacity on these things, even the regular sized ones, is pretty amazing. I want to try a full one tomorrow and see how long it lasts through my usual day compared to using cartridges.
  15. keelalagirl55

    keelalagirl55 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    How are you cleaning your cartos?
  16. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    I haven't gotten around to cleaning my cartomizers yet. This is only my 3rd day now using these, and I'm only on my 2nd one at that. The 1st one, which apparently may have had some problems, I don't even know if I'll try cleaning that one. I guess I should. I might be able to save it by doing so.

    The thing is, I'm not even sure exactly how I'll go about cleaning these, or when I should. I plan to use the overnight soak in vinegar method (distilled white vinegar), with a rinse and dry burn after that. Possibly I'll use some high acidity lime juice straight on the atomizer coils during the overnight soak phase. I wasn't planning on scraping the coils with anything directly, as I figure I could damage them that way. I've read a lot of people do that regardless, very carefully I presume. That sounds like too much hassle to me. If these things are gonna be super high maintenance, then the heck with 'em, I don't need the hassle for the value they give me. I'll clean them the simplest way I can. Hopefully that will be good enough. Maybe I can use my sonic toothbrush for the coils? Worth a try at least once, maybe I'll do that on my not-so-good 1st one I tried the other day.

    My only real cleaning concern (if you can even call it that) is exactly when I should clean them. From what I've read, maybe they should be cleaned after about 3-5 uses? Or whenever you feel they are losing performance? I guess I will just have to wing it on the timing part. I will clean them when I think they need to be cleaned. Sorry, I guess that's not much help, but I'm a newbie to using cartomizers of any kind. I'm still not even sure if I like them enough to keep using them regularly compared to regular atomizers and cartridges.

    The one I'm using right now, I've been using it for about 8 hours straight while I've been working at home on my computer. I've had to switch out my m402 batteries twice during that time, and the cartomizer is still performing as well as when I filled it up earlier in the day. I have to admit I think that is pretty darn cool. These are certainly worth trying to clean at least once before even thinking about giving up on them.
  17. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    How would you recommend cleaning them with alcohol? With a soak? How long? Boiling afterword?

    I didn't have much luck with using vinegar. After soaking the cartomizers overnight, then boiling them after rinsing them out, I ended with fairly clean cartomizers...that ended up tasting a bit like vinegar, yuck! I love how long the e-liquid in these cartomizers last, but they are a real pain to fill and maintain. Since they last so long on a single fill, the extra difficulty in refilling them is not really a significant issue, but their having to be cleaned so often, and the results of that cleaning, really makes them more trouble than they are worth to me so far. A better and more reliably performing cleaning method would certainly help make these cartomizers more worthwhile. I've actually stopped using my CE2 R4 cartomizers for now, and have gone back to using standard m401 series atomizers & cartridges.
  18. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Okay, cleaned the CE2 R4 cartomizers all out again. This time boiled them for much longer, and only soaked them in vinegar a few hours, instead of overnight. They seem to be working much better now, with no vinegar-like taste to them. I couldn't help trying to reuse these because of how much e-liquid they can carry. They last you a whole workday. They seem to need to be cleaned like this after only about 2 uses before a negative taste starts to intrude on my vaporizing pleasure. I just wish my newer m402 batteries would hold a charge for as long as my old Intellicig batteries seemed to do in comparison. I think part of the problem may be my old PCC box, which is my only charger. After all, it is a rechargeable battery as well, one which I've been using since I quit smoking about 7-8 months ago. It may need to be replaced soon, much like with any other battery.
  19. Critter Man

    Critter Man Super Member ECF Veteran

    Hate to resurrect an older thread, but I am curious how folks are liking their CE2 R4 cartos on their 40x PVs. I'm considering picking some up. Now that folks have had a chance to decide if they like them or not, I hope some folks will want to share their experiences. I'm also wondering who carries them lately.
  20. flbutterfly1

    flbutterfly1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    liberty flights sells them.
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