Mixing By Weight: Basics 101
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After reading through another thread, a couple questions came to me about scale calibration. I'm not sure the specific scale is pertinent to the question, so just generally speaking for now:
1. How do you know your scale needs calibration? Is using a nickel or nickels known to be exactly 5 grams each placed on the scale before each session sufficient? Or just now and then or if you think it needs calibration? Or is there some other obvious indicator?
2. If your scale is "off", is it off a percentage or amount? Percentage being applied to any weight as in, off 10% (probably high, but easier calculation and explanation) so 1 gram reads 1.1 or .9 and 50 grams reads 55 or 45? For amount, off by 1 gram, so 1 gram reads 0 or 2 and 50 grams read 49 or 51? I'm assuming it would be consistent and not up, down, and all over the place.
3. And if that assumption (consistently wrong) is correct, does it really matter that the scale is off 1 gram/percent or 2 (mostly by percent)? In other words, if weighing short 1%, all ingredients would be short 1%, but actual ratios would be the same, but the total weight of the mix would be 1% short?
Maybe I am going overboard with my thinking, but after something else I read in another thread, wanted clarification on how frequently I should or need to calibrate and how to know when it is imperative to do so.
1. How do you know your scale needs calibration? Is using a nickel or nickels known to be exactly 5 grams each placed on the scale before each session sufficient? Or just now and then or if you think it needs calibration? Or is there some other obvious indicator?
2. If your scale is "off", is it off a percentage or amount? Percentage being applied to any weight as in, off 10% (probably high, but easier calculation and explanation) so 1 gram reads 1.1 or .9 and 50 grams reads 55 or 45? For amount, off by 1 gram, so 1 gram reads 0 or 2 and 50 grams read 49 or 51? I'm assuming it would be consistent and not up, down, and all over the place.
3. And if that assumption (consistently wrong) is correct, does it really matter that the scale is off 1 gram/percent or 2 (mostly by percent)? In other words, if weighing short 1%, all ingredients would be short 1%, but actual ratios would be the same, but the total weight of the mix would be 1% short?
Maybe I am going overboard with my thinking, but after something else I read in another thread, wanted clarification on how frequently I should or need to calibrate and how to know when it is imperative to do so.
I do not use a scale for mixing but when calibrating scales in years passed it was done with calibration weights and not a nickle because I believe coins are not an exact weight year to year.
1 - I use a 100g calibration weight to check periodically. My scale requires a 500g calibration weight to recalibrate it (that is the max weight for my scale).
2 - The percent it is off can increase exponentially the more weight is increased from what I understand. So at 50g it could be off 1 percent but at 100g it could be off 2 percent or more.
2 - The percent it is off can increase exponentially the more weight is increased from what I understand. So at 50g it could be off 1 percent but at 100g it could be off 2 percent or more.
Thanks, but I didn't think I gave any indication of calibrating with nickels. If it read that way, my wording was probably ambiguous.
My instructions say to calibrate with a 100g calibration weight. So if using that now and then to check, doing a calibration probably wouldn't be much more then pushing a button or two.
That sounds reasonable to me and if so, would also throw off a recipe to a degree. Based on that and the first part of your post, sure sounds like checking with the calibration weight on a somewhat regular basis is the best practice rather then waiting for something to seem off.
Thanks, Fozzy!
I checked mine today for the first time in a long time. It was under 0.03g. I didn't bother calibrating it again as that would mean having to read the instructions.
I was just going by what I needed to do years ago to check the scale calibration which was using weights that are specifically made for it.
I do this... Every 6 months time, roughly, I use a coin to check for accuracy and repetability, so I weigh the coin 10 times in a row. For a 0.01g accuracy scale, I tolerate 0.02g off and very max 0.03g. One scale rarely where 0.03g off if I remember correct, which I also tolerated, but usually 0.01 - 0.02. I haven't needed calibration in two years of using the cheapest possible 500/0.01g china scales(10'ish USD) Though I also read reviews alot before buying anything... Remember a single drop is about 0.03 depending on type/size...
Though I also read reviews alot before buying anything... Remember a single drop is about 0.03 depending on type/size...
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My scale came with calibration weights, two 200g. You put one then when prompted, the other on the scale.
Once a month, I hit the CAL key and calibrate it.
Take all of about 3 minutes including getting the weights out of their baggie.
Once a month, I hit the CAL key and calibrate it.
Take all of about 3 minutes including getting the weights out of their baggie.
Personally I would still check it, e.g. with the calibration-weights, coins, or whatever... If the scale isn't precise anymore and semi-broken, then calibrating endlessly without checking for actual accuracy isn't giving you the full story... I mean if the problem is inconsistency, then calibration won't help i'm guessing. One scale would weigh 0.01 to 0.02 wrong and then 0.03 one in ten times max. Calibration here would'nt fix this I think, though maybe i'm wrong as i'm not fully certain... If it's off consistently, then calibration will fix that I believe...
Note, I don't disagree about calibrating e.g. once a month, as that's fine of course, but personally I would just double-check that calibration also at times, just to be sure...
Note, I don't disagree about calibrating e.g. once a month, as that's fine of course, but personally I would just double-check that calibration also at times, just to be sure...
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I want to start with mixing by weights but i can't get my mind of this ''problem'':
Lets' take one aroma is 0.95g/ml but you just use 1g so 1g=1,05ml.
For a mix you need 6g is 6x1,05ml= 6,3ml =5% more then actual needed.
Lets' take one aroma is 0.95g/ml but you just use 1g so 1g=1,05ml.
For a mix you need 6g is 6x1,05ml= 6,3ml =5% more then actual needed.
You are over thinking it. Your calculator should do percentages of flavoring and output the proper amounts in ML or g, like this:
This is the calculator I use - New Calculator to try
If the error is consistent and linear, your final ratios would still be correct, even if your final product was a few mg too much or too little (same obviously for ml).
I am not sure if my assumption earlier that a percentage error could increase exponentially with more weight was correct or not but it wouldn't surprise me when it comes to digital anything. I often go over or under my intended weights when mixing 20ml testers and 120 or 220ml batches and I can't say I ever noticed weighing errors in the taste of the final mix. People get really hung up on being as accurate as possible (take a look at the recent weight vs volume thread I had to quit following) and the truth is unless you go way over/under most people can't tell, and at the cost of DIY who cares if you use a little/too much and once in a great while maybe make a bad batch. The few batches I have made that I later didn't like for some reason I just mix with other things I do like, or add in a few mls of random flavorings to make it more palatable.
Ok sorry i am not that smart but i cant just say ok lets do it like this. I want to know the details so i hope an could help me overcome this issue.
Lets assume you need 6% Sugar cookie V2 (CAP) with a mass of 0.95g/ml and you are going to make 100ml:
6%=6ml = 6x0,95g/ml = 5,7g
But since you use 1g for all your aroma's:
6%=6ml = 6x1g/ml = 6g
Outcomes is 0,3g = 5% more the needed.
And this is only 0.95g/ml you have also 0.89g/ml.
That would be a 11% difference?
And you can say oh the total outcome is only a little bit less or more, but i think all the different layers an also sit in a mix differently.
Oke in the end it doesn't matter how you do it, but the results do. So if you have a good vape and you can recreate it over and over, it's good.
Still i can't justify switching to weight mixing for myself, but i really want to.
Only this ''problem'' keep spinning in my head.
Lets assume you need 6% Sugar cookie V2 (CAP) with a mass of 0.95g/ml and you are going to make 100ml:
6%=6ml = 6x0,95g/ml = 5,7g
But since you use 1g for all your aroma's:
6%=6ml = 6x1g/ml = 6g
Outcomes is 0,3g = 5% more the needed.
And this is only 0.95g/ml you have also 0.89g/ml.
That would be a 11% difference?
And you can say oh the total outcome is only a little bit less or more, but i think all the different layers an also sit in a mix differently.
Oke in the end it doesn't matter how you do it, but the results do. So if you have a good vape and you can recreate it over and over, it's good.
Still i can't justify switching to weight mixing for myself, but i really want to.
Only this ''problem'' keep spinning in my head.
I don't. I use the manufacturers specified gravity, if available, as evident in that screen shot I posted where none of the grams equaled ML. The calculator takes care of making sure the grams columns and ML columns percents work out to 100%. If the mfg doesn't publish the SG I use 1.0.
Yes that is the one solution to use the specified gravity's.
But if you don't you can have a big difference. Also when using other people's recipe. You don't know if they used 1 or the real specified gravity. Which imo can also change, so every new batch of aroma's has to be measured again.
Ok you can do this yourself using a calibrated syringe or digital syringe which are expensive, but to measure each aroma takes also a lot of your time and you have to clean to measure each aroma. Also you have to keep it in a log and take that log again when you want to mix. Is just not fool proof to me.
I think i stick to using the syringes, i think it takes a little more time and more mess and also more cost's over time. But i think it's also more fool proof and 300 syringes is about buying a scale. I have 150 flavours now. So 2x syringes for a flavor. I think i can use that for a year or 2. Oh and i am also aware of pulling up 1ml with a syringe can be 0,92ml, so in that way its less constant vs by weight mixing.
But if you don't you can have a big difference. Also when using other people's recipe. You don't know if they used 1 or the real specified gravity. Which imo can also change, so every new batch of aroma's has to be measured again.
Ok you can do this yourself using a calibrated syringe or digital syringe which are expensive, but to measure each aroma takes also a lot of your time and you have to clean to measure each aroma. Also you have to keep it in a log and take that log again when you want to mix. Is just not fool proof to me.
I think i stick to using the syringes, i think it takes a little more time and more mess and also more cost's over time. But i think it's also more fool proof and 300 syringes is about buying a scale. I have 150 flavours now. So 2x syringes for a flavor. I think i can use that for a year or 2
. Oh and i am also aware of pulling up 1ml with a syringe can be 0,92ml, so in that way its less constant vs by weight mixing.
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Yes that is the one solution to use the specified gravity's.
But if you don't you can have a big difference. Also when using other people's recipe. You don't know if they used 1 or the real specified gravity. Which imo can also change, so every new batch of aroma's has to be measured again.
Ok you can do this yourself using a calibrated syringe or digital syringe which are expensive, but to measure each aroma takes also a lot of your time and you have to clean to measure each aroma. Also you have to keep it in a log and take that log again when you want to mix. Is just not fool proof to me.
I think i stick to using the syringes, i think it takes a little more time and more mess and also more cost's over time. But i think it's also more fool proof and 300 syringes is about buying a scale. I have 150 flavours now. So 2x syringes for a flavor. I think i can use that for a year or 2
You are still over-thinking it. If someone posts a recipe in percents it doesnt matter if I measure in ML or Grams. Percents are percents. Yes if one of my flavors doesn't have proper SG in my calculator (or they didn't have proper SG and were measuring by weight) it might not be exact to what to the poster created but not enough to matter or for me to know (and who knows if they were measuring by volume or weight, or weighed/measured accurately). I use dripper bottles if I have them or disposable pipettes for my flavors that dont come in drippers, and the only thing I clean up is the funnel I use for pg/vg. The pipettes are 3 or 4 cents each and go in the recycling.
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