Does refrigerating e-liquid preserve how it tastes out of the bottle? I know some vendors say you should pop em in the fridge to prolong shelf-life and wanted to know if anyone has compared non-refrigerated vs refrigerated e-liquid. Going to get a new bottle of boba's next week and I like the way it tastes out of the mailbox. So far, I haven't found any juices that I prefer steeped for some reason. My favorite non-tobacco flavor from Johnson Creek was awesome the first few times I tried it but the 30ml bottle I purchased last time seemed to mellow out so much that it didn't have that tang anymore. JC is going to send me a freshly mixed bottle as they said their stock could be 30 days old by the time you get it. So, if refrigerating is going to help maintain the original flavor then I might start doing that. What do you all think?
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I would also like to know this. I want to try lots of flavors but i wonder how long they stay good. The vendor i use makes the liquid to order and he puts the date of creation on the label.
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I have a cigar box full of flavors and keeping them fresh is not on my list of priorities since I'm not crazy about all of them. I just wanted to preserve only my top shelf ones.
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Refrigeration/freezing won't affect PG/VG or nicotine in fact it will prolong the life if stored properly. The problem with storing pre-mixed eliquid(vendor or DIY)in the frig is the flavorings...
Quoted from an emil sent by Linda at The Perfumer's Apprentice about storing food flavorings. A long read but lots of good info.
"Concentrated flavors do not spoil, or go rancid, like fruit juices can.
But under certain conditions they can change.
Basically, what my flavor manufacturer tells me is that the flavors have a shelflife of at least six-months to one-year, when they are not continuously opened. It is not necessary to store them in the refrigerator, but I dont think that this would hurt them. But sometimes refrigeration can cause re-crystallization of flavors that have a lot of the crystals like ethyl maltol in them.
Every concentrated flavor is a mixture of raw materials, and every flavor blend can act differently. For example flavors that have a vanilla characteristic are going to have slightly different storage capabilities than fruit flavors. Heres the reason.
Vanilla and caramel flavors are mostly made of large molecules like vanillin, ethyl vanillin , etc.
These molecules are not very volatile, and tend not to escape the bottle when you open it. They will be fairly stable. Fruit flavors, on the other hand, are made of much smaller molecules in general. Whenever you open a bottle, its the lightest and smallest molecules that escape and reach your nose quickly. Over time when you open a bottle over and over again more and more proportion of these lighter molecules leave the bottle and eventually the character of the flavor will be changed. This doesnt mean the flavors spoiled, its just different. So this is one piece of advice, if you are going to store a flavor for a long period of time, transfer the flavor to smaller bottles that will you will not have to open over and over again.
also, when a flavor is warm, like if its a hot day, when you open the bottle even more of the volatile molecules will escape, much more will escape than if the flavor was cool. This is true for all liquids, when liquids are heated the molecules are much more easily converted to their gaseous state. So in general it is a good idea to keep the flavor cool though I dont think refrigeration is always necessary.
Also, in general, it is best not to store these flavors long-term in plastic.
The plastic that we ship our larger sizes in ( 4 ounces and above), is HDPE plastic, which is very resistant to interaction with the flavors.
but even with HDPE plastic, I really wouldnt recommend storing them for longer than a month or so.. Its much better to store things long-term in glass.
also, it is not a good idea at all to store the flavors with the plastic eyedropper caps on the bottles. The rubber thats used with the eyedroppers is extremely soft and interacts."
Quoted from an emil sent by Linda at The Perfumer's Apprentice about storing food flavorings. A long read but lots of good info.
"Concentrated flavors do not spoil, or go rancid, like fruit juices can.
But under certain conditions they can change.
Basically, what my flavor manufacturer tells me is that the flavors have a shelflife of at least six-months to one-year, when they are not continuously opened. It is not necessary to store them in the refrigerator, but I dont think that this would hurt them. But sometimes refrigeration can cause re-crystallization of flavors that have a lot of the crystals like ethyl maltol in them.
Every concentrated flavor is a mixture of raw materials, and every flavor blend can act differently. For example flavors that have a vanilla characteristic are going to have slightly different storage capabilities than fruit flavors. Heres the reason.
Vanilla and caramel flavors are mostly made of large molecules like vanillin, ethyl vanillin , etc.
These molecules are not very volatile, and tend not to escape the bottle when you open it. They will be fairly stable. Fruit flavors, on the other hand, are made of much smaller molecules in general. Whenever you open a bottle, its the lightest and smallest molecules that escape and reach your nose quickly. Over time when you open a bottle over and over again more and more proportion of these lighter molecules leave the bottle and eventually the character of the flavor will be changed. This doesnt mean the flavors spoiled, its just different. So this is one piece of advice, if you are going to store a flavor for a long period of time, transfer the flavor to smaller bottles that will you will not have to open over and over again.
also, when a flavor is warm, like if its a hot day, when you open the bottle even more of the volatile molecules will escape, much more will escape than if the flavor was cool. This is true for all liquids, when liquids are heated the molecules are much more easily converted to their gaseous state. So in general it is a good idea to keep the flavor cool though I dont think refrigeration is always necessary.
Also, in general, it is best not to store these flavors long-term in plastic.
The plastic that we ship our larger sizes in ( 4 ounces and above), is HDPE plastic, which is very resistant to interaction with the flavors.
but even with HDPE plastic, I really wouldnt recommend storing them for longer than a month or so.. Its much better to store things long-term in glass.
also, it is not a good idea at all to store the flavors with the plastic eyedropper caps on the bottles. The rubber thats used with the eyedroppers is extremely soft and interacts."
I did not read sidetrack's post... Don from BWB told me on the phone "no fridge, fridge = condensation, condensation = bacteria".
Its a shame,because I like my juices well-steeped...so steep that I buy them and leave them alone at room temp for 2 months+ (unopened)
I'm with K,fridge can have a bad effect as well.
You can store brand new unopened PG or VG or even nic juice cans if you buy a lot at a fire sale price for DIY but otherwise...
I'm with K,fridge can have a bad effect as well.
You can store brand new unopened PG or VG or even nic juice cans if you buy a lot at a fire sale price for DIY but otherwise...
How does refrigerating something cause bacterial growth?
That article sidetrack posted was good info and to me it means that putting something in the fridge would help preserve the original flavor. Nothing cooler and darker than a fridge.
Sent from my phone.... Some words may have been mangled by text prediction.
I called w a question about a credit card issue... It was like my 2nd week vaping, I fired off like 3 questions while I had him on the phone and that was his response. I dont not know, nor do I have the knowledge to make any comments on this subject. I simply felt it pertinent to the thread to add his quote.
You will never get all air out of the Bottles and with air in them it creates condensation the minute you take it out and it warms to room temerature just like the water running down your soda or container you take out and complain cause you are dripping all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't debating the condensation part. How does bacteria form from doing this? Sounds like backwoods hillbilly nonsense
I agree. Sounds like a contradiction to me. Im leaning towards believing the email over that guy on the phone. Kind of like keeping a two liter bottle of soda, jug of juice, bottle of ketchup, or jar of jam in the fridge. Is it more likely to build bacteria in the fridge or in a room temperature shoe box... ?
If your knit picking taste I would just guess taking it out of the fridge for a hr until room temp and then a vigorous shake before opening.
If your knit picking taste I would just guess taking it out of the fridge for a hr until room temp and then a vigorous shake before opening.
The two safe ways of keeping e-liquids are:
- In a cool, dark place with low humidity
- In a freezer
There are a lot of ifs and buts about this, but storing in fridge can work out successful or a disaster - it depends. There are two problems with a fridge: osmosis and headspace vapor.
Osmosis is transfer of water vapor through the wall or lid of a container. This will happen with any plastic. It's the reason why foods can lose their flavor in a fridge; or why food A takes on the flavor of food B next to it, even though both are in sealed containers. Water vapor and flavors transfer in or out depending on various factors. Glass stops that, and cobalt glass (special blue lab glass) is best of all - but you could still have a plastic cap, even with that.
In the headspace above the e-liquid, water vapor condenses out onto the wall of the container. This is distilled water with no PG in it. If there is any microbial material in the airspace - which there will be unless the manufacturer filled the bottle in a vacuum or a nitrogen atmosphere - it will grow in the water. This accelerates degradation of the rest of the materials.
Some people have had success with keeping e-liquid in a fridge, others have lost hundreds of dollars of liquid.
The best bet for long-term storage is a freezer. Put the liquid in glass, leave a small headspace, and treble bag it. Unflavored liquid has an unknown lifespan in a freezer, it is many years and no one has got to the end of it yet. Unflavored base has a lifespan of two years in a cool, dark, low-humidity stored condition. In a freezer it could be 5 or even 10 years.
PG doesn't freeze of course as it has such a low freezing point, but at -18 or lower there is very little biological activity or material degradation in it.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610
- In a cool, dark place with low humidity
- In a freezer
There are a lot of ifs and buts about this, but storing in fridge can work out successful or a disaster - it depends. There are two problems with a fridge: osmosis and headspace vapor.
Osmosis is transfer of water vapor through the wall or lid of a container. This will happen with any plastic. It's the reason why foods can lose their flavor in a fridge; or why food A takes on the flavor of food B next to it, even though both are in sealed containers. Water vapor and flavors transfer in or out depending on various factors. Glass stops that, and cobalt glass (special blue lab glass) is best of all - but you could still have a plastic cap, even with that.
In the headspace above the e-liquid, water vapor condenses out onto the wall of the container. This is distilled water with no PG in it. If there is any microbial material in the airspace - which there will be unless the manufacturer filled the bottle in a vacuum or a nitrogen atmosphere - it will grow in the water. This accelerates degradation of the rest of the materials.
Some people have had success with keeping e-liquid in a fridge, others have lost hundreds of dollars of liquid.
The best bet for long-term storage is a freezer. Put the liquid in glass, leave a small headspace, and treble bag it. Unflavored liquid has an unknown lifespan in a freezer, it is many years and no one has got to the end of it yet. Unflavored base has a lifespan of two years in a cool, dark, low-humidity stored condition. In a freezer it could be 5 or even 10 years.
PG doesn't freeze of course as it has such a low freezing point, but at -18 or lower there is very little biological activity or material degradation in it.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610
Thank you Roly for such a great explanation. What always stood out for me is the lack of a complete seal on the bottles which gets you in all sorts of trouble.
What do you believe is the lifespan of flavored juice at room temperature?
What do you believe is the lifespan of flavored juice at room temperature?
It will depend entirely on the materials. Some simple formulas with few ingredients, a good percentage of PG, and all-synthetic flavorings might last two years or more. Stuff with a mix of organic flavorings could easily start to die off after a couple of months.
There's one mix I make that has to be used within a month even though it isn't supposed to have any organic flavorings in it. After that, the flavors die off until there's nothing there. Other stuff tastes the same after a year.
There's one mix I make that has to be used within a month even though it isn't supposed to have any organic flavorings in it. After that, the flavors die off until there's nothing there. Other stuff tastes the same after a year.
Condensation and osmosis really have nothing to do with each other.
osmosis is the movement of something from a lower density to a higher density through a semi-permeable membrane.
condensation is the change of water from a gaseous state to a liquid state. This happens when warm moist air meets something cold, ie a cold glass of liquid....notice on that same glass of lets say iced tea that the condensation occurs more below the water line at the coldest part of the glass. Condensation has to do with the dew point.
osmosis is the movement of something from a lower density to a higher density through a semi-permeable membrane.
condensation is the change of water from a gaseous state to a liquid state. This happens when warm moist air meets something cold, ie a cold glass of liquid....notice on that same glass of lets say iced tea that the condensation occurs more below the water line at the coldest part of the glass. Condensation has to do with the dew point.
I have been trying to wade through this controversy for two months now reading every thread on the subject... so far nothing totally conclusive and its important to me because of having made the usual noob mistake and ordering way too many flavors (ejuice) that I dislike but don't want to throw out as they may change or someone I know may like them.
From my own experience pre-vaping: As a diabetic I have to do a lot of cooking and baking from scratch and have The Spice Shoppe (a flavoring concentrate vendor similar to Capellas) and other flavors in large amber bottles going back as long as 7 years. They are non-alcoholic, containing "natural flavor, water and glycerin." They contain the statement "refrigerate after opening" which is just what I've done with them. The fact that they contain no alcohol for preservation, I suspect, makes them susceptible to contamination thus the statement. The volume hasn't changed nor have the tastes though I don't open them that often some only being for holiday baking.
I've even noticed that with both Torani and DaVinci drink flavorings (the large premixed bottles that contain water and flavor) some flavors say to refrigerate after opening and some do not. None say to keep in a cool, dark, place and they're in clear glass bottles like a wine bottle. I missed the "refrigerate after opening" on one flavor and it spoiled in the year it was in the cupboard.. it had only been opened once in that year.... no mold floating but tasted like fermentation had set in.
One thing I've pretty much decided is that if the bottle or cartomizer contains straight VG and flavor (even PG and alcohol ones) along with possible DW, I'm going to refrigerate it just as the Spice Shoppe would say to. I would, however, like to find out... if someone can direct me to the science... what percentage of PG must be added to make mixed juice safe for non-refrigerated storage as I have no doubt PG is acting as a preservative in terms of micro organisms. If the percentage is more than the flavoring itself might contain but low enough not to mess with the flavor or nic strength too much, I may just add the effective percentage of it it to the mixes.
I've seen folks say "stay away from preservatives" and have wondered why. I bet some of the same peeps are vaping PG. But it has made me wonder about adding other preservatives to my juices like citric acid which is in 99% of what we buy to drink as well as in any citric fruit flavored ejuice but I wonder how much of that it takes to do its preservative job in a mixed juice and the consequences to its flavor.
From my own experience pre-vaping: As a diabetic I have to do a lot of cooking and baking from scratch and have The Spice Shoppe (a flavoring concentrate vendor similar to Capellas) and other flavors in large amber bottles going back as long as 7 years. They are non-alcoholic, containing "natural flavor, water and glycerin." They contain the statement "refrigerate after opening" which is just what I've done with them. The fact that they contain no alcohol for preservation, I suspect, makes them susceptible to contamination thus the statement. The volume hasn't changed nor have the tastes though I don't open them that often some only being for holiday baking.
I've even noticed that with both Torani and DaVinci drink flavorings (the large premixed bottles that contain water and flavor) some flavors say to refrigerate after opening and some do not. None say to keep in a cool, dark, place and they're in clear glass bottles like a wine bottle. I missed the "refrigerate after opening" on one flavor and it spoiled in the year it was in the cupboard.. it had only been opened once in that year.... no mold floating but tasted like fermentation had set in.
One thing I've pretty much decided is that if the bottle or cartomizer contains straight VG and flavor (even PG and alcohol ones) along with possible DW, I'm going to refrigerate it just as the Spice Shoppe would say to. I would, however, like to find out... if someone can direct me to the science... what percentage of PG must be added to make mixed juice safe for non-refrigerated storage as I have no doubt PG is acting as a preservative in terms of micro organisms. If the percentage is more than the flavoring itself might contain but low enough not to mess with the flavor or nic strength too much, I may just add the effective percentage of it it to the mixes.
I've seen folks say "stay away from preservatives" and have wondered why. I bet some of the same peeps are vaping PG. But it has made me wonder about adding other preservatives to my juices like citric acid which is in 99% of what we buy to drink as well as in any citric fruit flavored ejuice but I wonder how much of that it takes to do its preservative job in a mixed juice and the consequences to its flavor.
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I can see this tread going somewhere. I already know I prefer glass over plastic. I always store my bottles in a kitchen cabinet. It would be great information to know the truth about storing our liquids. Everyone seems to have an opinion so maybe the truth will surface. Hope I dont have to buy a humidor.
Now I'm confused. Is my 100% VG nic base not going to last very long because there's no PG in it?
I've only been vaping less than a year and several months ago started buying bulk nic base and flavors. (I haven't tried storing my flavored nic liquids in the frig or freezer, just the nicotine unflavored bases.)
I've only been vaping less than a year and several months ago started buying bulk nic base and flavors. (I haven't tried storing my flavored nic liquids in the frig or freezer, just the nicotine unflavored bases.)
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