Removal of sugars from fruit extracts?

[Exchaner]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 16818505" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

No, you cannot filter out sugars unless we are talking about membrane separation, which is not really a usual filter.

Yes you can, but you will need an ultra fine filter. Membrane filtering is a subset of the process. The filter I posted was probably too large, but there are filters on the market fractions of a micron. Will look up average particle size for sugars and post here if I manage to find it.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Yes you can, but you will need an ultra fine filter. The one I posted was too large, but there are filters on the market fractions of a micron. Will look up average particle size for sugars and post here if I manage to find it.

Link? (except for lactose: it has rather large molecule)
Average size for glucose is about 1 nanometer, for water - 0.29 nanometers.

 

[Exchaner]

I am looking for the link, but as I recall sucrose has a particle size of .25 micron. Stay tuned for the link

 

[sparkky1]

Citric acid is usually used to both a) control bacterial growth (though PG does that on its own), and b) keep an ejuice's flavor from changing as it ages ("steeps").

Andria

I'll pass on that one Bronchoconstriction induced by citric acid inhalation in guinea pigs: role of tachykinins, bradykinin, and nitric oxide. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[AndriaD]

I'll pass on that one Bronchoconstriction induced by citric acid inhalation in guinea pigs: role of tachykinins, bradykinin, and nitric oxide. - PubMed - NCBI

Even in tiny doses? What I've seen advised is to make a 10% solution of citric acid, and then add that to the recipe at .5% or 1%.

This concerns me, because once my WTA is done, I had thought I might be able to make my juice in large quantities, but it would need citric acid to stabilize the flavor. If it causes bronchoconstriction or bronchospasm in ANY size dose, I'll have to pass on that too, since I already have asthma.

Andria

 

[sparkky1]

Even in tiny doses? What I've seen advised is to make a 10% solution of citric acid, and then add that to the recipe at .5% or 1%.

This concerns me, because once my WTA is done, I had thought I might be able to make my juice in large quantities, but it would need citric acid to stabilize the flavor. If it causes bronchoconstriction or bronchospasm in ANY size dose, I'll have to pass on that too, since I already have asthma.

Andria

Why not do cold maceration NET's ?

 

[Exchaner]

Couldn't find the specific link to filtering sugars but here is a link to particle sizes for various compounds. I may have to revise my thinking about filtering sugars. Particles maybe too small. What is membrance filtering anyway? Is that how plants absorb moisture through the soil?

Particle Sizes

 

[AndriaD]

Why not do cold maceration NET's ?

Mainly because I really don't like the taste of tobacco anymore. My ADV is strawberry & cream.

Andria

 

[sparkky1]

Mainly because I really don't like the taste of tobacco anymore. My ADV is strawberry & cream.

Andria

I mis understood you, I thought you were going to try making your own WTA ................

 

[AndriaD]

I mis understood you, I thought you were going to try making your own WTA ................

Not at all; I've been very happy with Wholecig's. I'm almost done with it, down to 1.6% now, but due to the constant step-down, I've had to mix my juice in very small batches --60ml back when I was only dropping 1 percentage point a month, but since I've been dropping .2 percentage points weekly, only in 30ml batches -- which isn't enough to require any citric acid for flavor stabilization, nor is 60ml. What I'd like though, once the WTA is done, is to be able to mix 120ml at a time, but that will take long enough to vape that some flavor stabilization is needed. But if the citric acid is going to cause me more problems with my asthma, then I'm stuck with being able to make no more than 60ml at a time.

Andria

 

[sparkky1]

Not at all; I've been very happy with Wholecig's. I'm almost done with it, down to 1.6% now, but due to the constant step-down, I've had to mix my juice in very small batches --60ml back when I was only dropping 1 percentage point a month, but since I've been dropping .2 percentage points weekly, only in 30ml batches -- which isn't enough to require any citric acid for flavor stabilization, nor is 60ml. What I'd like though, once the WTA is done, is to be able to mix 120ml at a time, but that will take long enough to vape that some flavor stabilization is needed. But if the citric acid is going to cause me more problems with my asthma, then I'm stuck with being able to make no more than 60ml at a time.

I've seen you mention asthma a time or two and just thought it might interest you, I have heard people adding it but it's not for me ..........

 

[Cam775]

@apache1649 Have you checked out the Reditt Deeper DIY sub? You may find some helpful info there or try posting your original question there.

If anyone else is interested in the makings of our flavoring it's an interesting place to read/learn. A lot of it is over my head but I still try to keep up

 

[dead not sleeping]

Even in tiny doses? What I've seen advised is to make a 10% solution of citric acid, and then add that to the recipe at .5% or 1%.

This concerns me, because once my WTA is done, I had thought I might be able to make my juice in large quantities, but it would need citric acid to stabilize the flavor. If it causes bronchoconstriction or bronchospasm in ANY size dose, I'll have to pass on that too, since I already have asthma.

Andria

What about Malic Acid? Would that do the stabilization thingy that you are looking for and not mess with your asthma? Its sold as TFA Sour (20%) or Super Sour (40%).

 

[AndriaD]

What about Malic Acid? Would that do the stabilization thingy that you are looking for and not mess with your asthma? Its sold as TFA Sour (20%) or Super Sour (40%).

I don't actually know. I should pose the question in the TFA thread; the mixing gurus in there should know.

Andria

 

[apache1649]

Hey all, sorry I dropped off the map for a while, been super busy with work and stuff, so I haven't had much time for either research or experimentation. I'm glad that the discussion has kept going, I'll post back again after I read some more of this flavor chemistry paper, I've been finding a lot of things out about specific flavor profiles, but it hasn't really gone over any extraction methods (not sure if it will but I have 200+ pages left).

 

[dead not sleeping]

Alcohol distills at a lower temp than water, 187-189 degrees or somewhere around there. Wouldn't the sugars tend to want to stay in the water? Infuse the alcohol with the flavoids in it into pg. Evaporate or redistill the alcohol out, you can recycle the alcohol if you redistill it. Hopefully you have a pg based flavoring in the end. I suppose you could, after sampling some of course, take a flavored brandy or a fruit infused everclear and pour some pg in it, evaporate it off and see if flavors will actually transfer to the pg.

 

[apache1649]

Alcohol distills at a lower temp than water, 187-189 degrees or somewhere around there. Wouldn't the sugars tend to want to stay in the water? Infuse the alcohol with the flavoids in it into pg. Evaporate or redistill the alcohol out, you can recycle the alcohol if you redistill it. Hopefully you have a pg based flavoring in the end. I suppose you could, after sampling some of course, take a flavored brandy or a fruit infused everclear and pour some pg in it, evaporate it off and see if flavors will actually transfer to the pg.

Worth a try, but based on the fact that you can evaporate pure (for all intents and purposes ) alcohol from wine, I doubt that the volatiles will follow the alcohol. Also, redustillation could destroy some volatiles and create others, even something as simple as slicing a fruit will produce new volatiles. I don't worry too much about mechanical disruption, such as blending, as that happens when we chew so similar volatiles will be produced by that. Distillation brings a lot of chemical factors into play that could change the flavor in extreme ways. It's always possible it won't, though, I'll be ordering more supplies on Thursday or Friday after I get paid, I'll post back with results.