Sanyo 20700B 4000mAh 20700 Bench Test Results...a peek at the future?

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Nov 23, 2016.

Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    The two cells tested were donated for the purposes of testing by City of Cloud (Batteries). Thank you! To prevent any confusion with the eGo-type "batteries", I use the term "cell" here to refer to a single 18350, 18650, 26650, etc.

    While the test results are hard data, the conclusions and recommendations I make based on these tests are only my personal opinion based on my criteria for setting a rating. Carefully research any cell you are considering using before purchasing.

    Testing cells at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them.

    If the cell has only one current rating number on it, or if it says "max discharging current" then I have to assume that the company is stating that the cell can be discharged at that current level in any way, including continuously.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    This Sanyo is one of the new generation of slightly larger cylindrical cells being brought to the market primarily for automotive use. It is 20mm in diameter and 70mm long, a 20700 battery. Other sizes and designations for similar cells from other manufacturers include 20650 and 21-70.

    I am rating this cell at 16A 4000mAh. It runs a few degrees hotter than the HG2 (which is why the Sanyo has a lower rating) but at 10A and 20A continuous down to 3.2V the Sanyo lasts about 25% longer.

    There is also a Sanyo 20700A cell which is rated at 3100mAh and about 30A. You'd have the capacity of a VTC6/30Q/HG2 plus a 30A rating for just a small increase in battery size.

    Either of these Sanyo's could be a very good choice to 3D print a custom battery sled for. City of Cloud was kind enough to send me a couple of their samples of the 20700B for this testing but no 20700A's were available. I hope to get a couple of the 20700A's soon.

    I don't know if any of these larger cells will eventually replace the 18650 but the Sanyo 20700B is hopefully just the first alternative cell that I'll be testing that offers a good current rating and extra capacity over our 18650's for just a small increase in size.


    Continuous-Current Test Results
    image.png image.jpeg


    Pulse-Current Test Results
    image.png image.png


    Sanyo 20700B Specifications
    image.jpeg image.jpeg


    Comments
    • At 10A continuous it reached 3909mAh. This is good performance for a 4000mAh cell at 10A so I am rating it at 4000mAh.
    • At 15A continuous the temperature rose to 74°C. This is just a bit below the average temperature of a cell operating at its continuous discharge rating (CDR). This is an indication that we are operating near its true rating.
    • At 20A continuous the temperature rose to 88°C. This is too hot for this current level to be the rating.
    • At 25A continuous the temperature rose to 102°C. This much too hot and is above my 100°C safety limit.
    • I am setting a CDR of 16A for this cell. While operating any cell near its rated maximum current level causes damage to the cell, I would expect good cycle life from this cell at 16A continuous.
    To see how other cells have tested and how hard you can safely push them, check out these links:
    List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...afety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...des-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447/
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...fety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554//
     
  2. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    Just a larger size, or does it employ a different chemistry?
     
    Darth Omerta and david4500 like this.
  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I don't know what chemistry it uses but Sanyo/Panasonic typically use the hybrid chemistries; NMC, NCA, etc.
     
    Darth Omerta, Joergl100 and david4500 like this.
  4. david4500

    david4500 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    MacTechVpr, Joergl100 and Rossum like this.
  5. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Nice! DG's sled?
     
  6. Joergl100

    Joergl100 Super Member

    david4500 likes this.
  7. david4500

    david4500 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Joergl100 likes this.
  8. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Aha...thanks. :)
     
  9. Eskie

    Eskie Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    I just got an email from IMR about these now in stock.
    Sanyo batteries.jpg
     
  10. AtmizrOpin

    AtmizrOpin Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2015
    Pennsylvania
    as soon as i saw this email in my inbox, i wanted to buy two of each even tho i have no mod that will fit (without modification) nor a 20700 sized sled, LOL. i'm sure i can figure something out........
     
    david4500 and Eskie like this.
  11. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Yup, got some of the A's in for testing recently. Hope to do that this month.
     
  12. Gremlintime

    Gremlintime New Member

    Mar 25, 2017
    Automotive use? How would this battery be used in a car? Maybe a really small car? LOL
     
  13. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    Mochiba likes this.
  14. 52anddone

    52anddone Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    o_O :blink:
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    They expand when you charge them.
     
    batteredwombat likes this.
  16. Meerk4t

    Meerk4t New Member

    Jun 11, 2017
    Need your advice, atm I am using Captain PD270 mod with IJoy 20700 batteries,
    should I get Sanyo NCR20700B for better perfomance or not? Usually I vape at 0.15 ohm and 65-80 watts.
     
  17. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    At 80W you might get better performance from the Sanyo, but I don't know how much. You're near the crossover point between the two.
     
    KenD likes this.
  18. Vesh

    Vesh Super Member Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Jan 17, 2017
    80w is well under the cdr innit? i'm getting 15 amps max using really extreme calcs... 3.1 volts which the captain goes down to, but i'm using just 85% efficiency. That's 15 amps.
    Also, what is the MVA of this battery mooch if you don't mind me asking?
     
  19. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Sorry, I don't remember the MVA rating but you can check the 20700 ratings table.

    The CDR is just a cycle life statement and is often above the point where the cell operates efficiently. The high internal resistance of the Sanyo B cell makes the voltage sag, and loss of capacity, huge at above 10A or so. You can run it much harder than that but at a certain point you actually get more vaping time using a lower capacity, but more efficient, cell like the Sanyo NCR20700A or the iJoy/Efest/Ampking.
     
    Vesh likes this.
  20. Vesh

    Vesh Super Member Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Jan 17, 2017
    well that explanation makes a massive difference.. Thank you.. I get it now, and what you mean by the crossover point compared to other batteries. So obviously for someone like me who just want massive battery life for tottling, 30 watts and under (15 w per battery) would be absolutely ideal for me to get the 20700b, yes?
     

Share This Page