Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
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Lifted for reference from the thread…Any Tricks to Clean RDA Coil Gunk | Post #19…
Depends I'd say, if it's Kanthal and oxidized such aggressive cooling contraction could disrupt the insulating surface and ultimately make for hotter performance due to breaks in electron flow (breakdown voltage). A likely cause of gunking due to overheating. Same effect as a bad terminal connection at the point or points of disruption.
Unless you rewick often it's a tradeoff between marring the wire surface with pulsing which may contribute to distorting the coil geometry or moderate use of water. I keep a small bottle of DW with a needle-dropcap at the workstation. Use it sparingly (micro-drops) on stubborn deposits to limit dry burn pulsing. Unwicked it's too easy to drive winds to temp's above 1200F and possible distortion. In all cases keeping unwetted temp's down helps maintain wire integrity, at least the geometry, which is essential to consistent uniform thermal output…whatever the wind design.
If you lose the coherence of your wind especially in carefully formed or tensioned multi-wire it's difficult if not impossible to restore it without risking further damage applying pressure. That's if you happen to notice you just broke your wind.
Some will scoff at this but just look at the pic's on this forum for the extremes of turn-to-turn surface temp variations. Can we say that different wire temps don't have a different effect on the juice? That too high will not scorch so fast as to immediately accrue like on a pan surface? Or too low relatively cause it to cook and congeal later to cool as unvaporized accretion? The physics in our vaporizers doesn't differ much from cooking with which we're all familiar. Why would we think otherwise?
Now back to distortion. Contact coils of any kind can distort (warp) easily as heat expansion increases turn diameter. Don't want to mess with that too aggressively. Rapid contraction (cooling) will do it. Leave contact coils in the cooled state of separation and the benefits of internal vapor pressure and thermal concentration brought by contact are largely lost.
Keep the DW handy and good luck.
p.s. If you oversaturate the coil, even without magnification, you can observe steam expanding and separating the turns of a closed (contact) coil when fired wet. With tensioned coil, you'll see winds snap back into full contact. If you overheat a coil during dry burn, you lose embedded strain by introducing more energy than used to create the wind.
Depends I'd say, if it's Kanthal and oxidized such aggressive cooling contraction could disrupt the insulating surface and ultimately make for hotter performance due to breaks in electron flow (breakdown voltage). A likely cause of gunking due to overheating. Same effect as a bad terminal connection at the point or points of disruption.
Unless you rewick often it's a tradeoff between marring the wire surface with pulsing which may contribute to distorting the coil geometry or moderate use of water. I keep a small bottle of DW with a needle-dropcap at the workstation. Use it sparingly (micro-drops) on stubborn deposits to limit dry burn pulsing. Unwicked it's too easy to drive winds to temp's above 1200F and possible distortion. In all cases keeping unwetted temp's down helps maintain wire integrity, at least the geometry, which is essential to consistent uniform thermal output…whatever the wind design.
If you lose the coherence of your wind especially in carefully formed or tensioned multi-wire it's difficult if not impossible to restore it without risking further damage applying pressure. That's if you happen to notice you just broke your wind.
Some will scoff at this but just look at the pic's on this forum for the extremes of turn-to-turn surface temp variations. Can we say that different wire temps don't have a different effect on the juice? That too high will not scorch so fast as to immediately accrue like on a pan surface? Or too low relatively cause it to cook and congeal later to cool as unvaporized accretion? The physics in our vaporizers doesn't differ much from cooking with which we're all familiar. Why would we think otherwise?
Now back to distortion. Contact coils of any kind can distort (warp) easily as heat expansion increases turn diameter. Don't want to mess with that too aggressively. Rapid contraction (cooling) will do it. Leave contact coils in the cooled state of separation and the benefits of internal vapor pressure and thermal concentration brought by contact are largely lost.
Keep the DW handy and good luck.
p.s. If you oversaturate the coil, even without magnification, you can observe steam expanding and separating the turns of a closed (contact) coil when fired wet. With tensioned coil, you'll see winds snap back into full contact. If you overheat a coil during dry burn, you lose embedded strain by introducing more energy than used to create the wind.
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This was posted on another thread ... maybe good news
Majority Media | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee
Good find Slots
Publish this broadly and please all send the man a letter of acknowledgement of gratitude for our concerns. I'd say a thank you but he's only just doing his job. A novel notion these days.
Good luck all.
p.s. Posted to this forum by @Bill Godshall…Senator Ron Johnson sends letter to FDA Cmsnr Califf asking important questions about deeming ban | E-Cigarette Forum. Thank you Bill.
Lifted from that other forum…
Ah, when all is said and done that is the ultimate dilemma honda. In a perfect universe, how many drops is the perfect vape?
Good luck.
HondaDavidson said:
Ah, when all is said and done that is the ultimate dilemma honda. In a perfect universe, how many drops is the perfect vape?
Good luck.
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@MacTechVpr @super_X_drifter I just want to thank you guys for opening my eyes to effective vaping. I have been at this since October, started right off building my own coils(Im a DIY guy at heart, having somebody else do the work for me feels wrong.) I have built basic coils, parallel, Clapton, Fused Clapton, Staples, Twisted, Etc. And none of them have really met my criteria of flavor and vapor production. Its either too hot, too much spitting, inefficient on battery etc. Today, I decided to try my own version of your method of Tensioned coils wrapping some basic 24G KA1 coils for my Derringer. Threw one lead in the chuck of my drill, with the mandrel inserted, and held the opposing end with pliers, and spun slowly. I was sceptical at first that this would be any different than hand wrapping. I was incredibly wrong. I mounted and centered my coils, pulsed them just a few times to anneal them, and they were heating evenly across the coil, and very quickly. The cooling of the wire was improved over hand wrapped coils of the same fashion. Threw my cotton bacon in, and juiced up. The flavor was off the charts, the vape was smooth, and fast ramping at only 30 watts on a 7 Wrap 24G Dual coil.
I have found my vape nirvana with tensioned coils. In the process of changing all of my setups to being coils of this style. Its amazing how just doing something so simple, enhances the experience of vaping.
I have found my vape nirvana with tensioned coils. In the process of changing all of my setups to being coils of this style. Its amazing how just doing something so simple, enhances the experience of vaping.
Thanks for the feedback and the nod @McAnythingReally. Classic example tho of what I really love to see. Peeps getting over asap and right to a great vape. Can't now for sure if this will be your vape nirvana. But now you have the baseline I talk about to really compare against in a stable repeatable build. And in my estimation that is priceless of itself.
Best of luck and holler if ya need.
Clocked in at .27 on a 2.5mm bit. Fires up fast, cools down quick. Nice little flavor build. Suits the derringer great.
.....
Only one vendor left in the country but competent in preparing the material...READYxWICK® ~ Premium Soft Ceramic Wick. 3M's Nextel (high-voltage electrical insulation). Little pricey but durably long-lived.
Lack of treatment of the raw textile was early on an issue for many who dabbled unawares that some variations needed kiln processing to remove sizing. It's thermally resistant to 3000F and ceramic, alumina just like oxidized Kanthal, about the most neutral media we could expose juice to.
Discussion here, search terms: nextel OR readyxwick OR ceramic…
ReadyXWick - Round 2 Reos Mods
READYxWICK for non cotton people
Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!
See above for an example in operation.
Good luck and LMK if any ?
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Optimal density…oh that's a rarely discussed theme on ECF. Simply, it's the thickest concentration of vapor that a coil may produce with a given input of power in a device. What most don't build to as a target and so don't get. Always talk in terms of the optimal for a specific atomizer.
Forming which is shaping wire by bending and squeezing while hot is what a strained coil very effectively replaces as an alternative.
A tensioned coil wants to retain the form it was wound to under strain. No further energy input is needed. A formed coil wants to return to its first open shape before heat and compression were applied. It will tend towards returning to that original form in operation. A tensioned coil on the other hand will want to always be a closed contact coil unless more heat (power) is applied subsequently than was used to create it. Remember that power is heat and straining or elongating the wire forces that heat energy into the wind. This is what results in a t.m.c. wanting to remain a closed coil.
Contact micro coils have a distinct advantage over open winds in being able to focus a lot of wire mass in a small geometric space. Tension winding imparts a type of memory which keeps them coherent and capable of oxidizing uniformly (no longer shorting). All these combine to result in a very stable high-output wind. The greatest vaporization potential for that given length of wire in the smallest space that nature will allow for it. That is your best shot at optimal density…providing an adequate and proportional air and juice flow for that dimension. You can use compact contact winding, thick or thin wire, large or small diameter, to determine the greatest wire mass the device will support.
You can also use tension to make small compact very fast firing efficient coils for that device too, once you know its limits. There may not be one nirvana. But you can find the optimal for your favorite rig using strain.
The beauty of it is that our remarkable brains and the tactile sensitivity of our hands is enough to produce a t.m.c. easily and quickly for most of us. A total game changer for those who master the simple process of strain winding and proper wire insulation.
Good luck CV, hope you give it a go.
Great as always Mac
I'm waiting for some charge on my phone so i can upload a pic of my Tensioned build, i dont think i can call it a TMC as its 2.5id not 1.5id which was the size of the microcoil, anyway used the drill+drillbit+pliers method and it worked great, the only issue with the drill method is that you have to straighten out one of the leads and i've noticed in the past that when you straighten a lead you can create a gap in the nearest coil wrap so what i did was put the coil back onto the drill bit with a wire vise one end and hold my pliers the otherside of the coil, trapping the coil on the drillbit so there is no movement as i straighten it out
I'm waiting for some charge on my phone so i can upload a pic of my Tensioned build, i dont think i can call it a TMC as its 2.5id not 1.5id which was the size of the microcoil, anyway used the drill+drillbit+pliers method and it worked great, the only issue with the drill method is that you have to straighten out one of the leads and i've noticed in the past that when you straighten a lead you can create a gap in the nearest coil wrap so what i did was put the coil back onto the drill bit with a wire vise one end and hold my pliers the otherside of the coil, trapping the coil on the drillbit so there is no movement as i straighten it out
Great as always Mac
I'm waiting for some charge on my phone so i can upload a pic of my Tensioned build, i dont think i can call it a TMC as its 2.5id not 1.5id which was the size of the microcoil, anyway used the drill+drillbit+pliers method and it worked great, the only issue with the drill method is that you have to straighten out one of the leads and i've noticed in the past that when you straighten a lead you can create a gap in the nearest coil wrap so what i did was put the coil back onto the drill bit with a wire vise one end and hold my pliers the otherside of the coil, trapping the coil on the drillbit so there is no movement as i straighten it out
Thanks for the comeback slip. Lookin' forward to it.
I've had to resort to the drill many a time when the hands are failing. Particularly with thicker wire. Downside for me is I end up going through a lot of wire. I really do rely on the feel to get the thing. Tend over-tightening winds tho more often than not. Still a very solid method for getting to adhesion if not as precise as the gizmo or a custom jig (for me so far).
I do think getting the spool (or wire feed) as close to the bit as possible helps a lot there to maintain a constant and controllable strain in the feed.
If I had a proper bench and vise with a foot-switch for the drill, man I'd be in heaven. Prolly all I'd use. A hand rest for the wrists for stabilizing the hand release of wire would help there. We need to use some imagination…our best tool.
You make a good point about the micro-nano. We definitely are better off these days with better gear (airflow). The micro was awesome for maximizing power given the AF at the time. These days wider Ø are really key to finding the best production in our well thought out better air-fed atty's, thin or multi-wire. Most use 2.82mm (#34 wire gauge) as the median for mech's. You still can pull a healthy chain with it even as voltage drops below 3.9V controlling the preference for diffusion with wick density and air. A 2.82Ø is pretty much a starting point on variables for the fast firing diffusion build. Anything less to me seems anemic if you throw any power at it. The exception being 3mm Nextel builds which need to be around 2.7-2.75Ø for good compression (contact) of the media.
Yeah, most methods are going to leave a bend in the anchor lead for the wind. And you have to be real careful as you say to not disrupt the tension in those first few turns. You may not see it, but it doesn't take much to disconnect 'em. Best to keep some fingers or a clamp on the wind once done to try and avoid that. It happens tho and you take off a few turns. No biggie. And true once you recognize adhesion you can definitely hand pull to it with a pliers even with thick wire.
Best method I've found is to have someone hold the closed end of parallels tight as I hand strain the open from the other end. Especially if they are of the female orientation.
I could go on but it's too early in the morning.
Have a great day and good luck.
I've added a pic to show how i set up the wire for lead straightening, once its trapped like this i use my finger or fingernail to pull it over straight, you could use a syringe tip, i notice on the pic there is a slight gap on the end wraps which could be from when i pulled the extra wraps from the coil after wrapping them with the drill, or maybe the leads moved as a tightened down the post screws.
This build is 2.5id 24gn80 which i think is 0.3ohms,
i'm running this on a mech and its been performing pretty dam well considering i normally vape more towards the 0.2ohm range its still hitting the spot.
When i was vaping the rm2 on the reo a couple of years back, i can't remember the atty size, 13mm, 14mm? .. 1.5-2mm id was my go to but now with the 22mm rda's no matter what the temp i always seem to prefer 2.5id, this is even my fav on 24 & 30mm atty's
This build is 2.5id 24gn80 which i think is 0.3ohms,
i'm running this on a mech and its been performing pretty dam well considering i normally vape more towards the 0.2ohm range its still hitting the spot.
When i was vaping the rm2 on the reo a couple of years back, i can't remember the atty size, 13mm, 14mm? .. 1.5-2mm id was my go to but now with the 22mm rda's no matter what the temp i always seem to prefer 2.5id, this is even my fav on 24 & 30mm atty's
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Mac did i hear you say somewhere that to much tension isnt always a good thing? In any case what i was gonna say is that i found a good way of getting tension between the drill and the pliers holding the other end of the wire by putting my wrists on the outside of my knees, it sounds kind of funny but it works well.
Yeah funny works sometimes. I trap the closed end of parallel in a needle nose under my left knee, rest the left forearm on the leg and wind down with the pin vise. Good for a couple of quickies out and about. Better to clamp 'em in somethin' tho. These days the vision is a limit.
On the over-strain, yes it's possible. Strain elongates the wire reducing resistance. With a mechanical like a gizmo or jig it's real easy to overdo it. Normally it takes quite a bit of low-V pulsing to turn platinum gold oxidation when you're just at adhesion. You can get to that real quick tho with excess tension. Problem is you've not layered much actual oxidation I think. My observations is these winds go way to the hot side without the advantage of insulation so it's easy to get to breakdown voltage, i.e. electron jump across turn, a short basically. So the wind goes hot and often leads do too. That's a huge waste of power and you see appreciably less vaporization relative to the power being applied.
So the answer is a zone of strain. It's pretty wide tho. If the method weren't that versatile or forgiving it would be useless. Just stay tuned to the progression of oxidation change and you'll be able to relate these to the kind of temperature output you're getting. You may settle on just how much oxidation is preferable for you. For example, low power <25 tank applications I'm barely reaching a medium blue across 3/5 of the wind with 2 or 4 turns barely exhibiting any oxidation at all. And that's adequate for that application. Oxidation continues with use. For higher power I like to continue that process as long as my patience permits to arrive at some very deep burgundy-blue-gray finishes…
Even as adhesion helps accelerate the process of normal passivation it can take a while to add enough insulation to maintain a t.m.c. through extremely high power. If not enough you can reach breakdown, send the wind hot and I understand from my readings here and elsewhere this degrades the alumina layers marking the end of life for the wind. So it's not something I can readily or easily explain as you can see because we use our devices in so many ways. This part (oxidation) then is a personal learning process that very much depends on a great many preference factors much like cooking. So the goal of strain winding is insulating the coil just like we make sure we've got enough grease in the pan. One tool leads to another.
G'luck slip.
On the over-strain, yes it's possible. Strain elongates the wire reducing resistance. With a mechanical like a gizmo or jig it's real easy to overdo it. Normally it takes quite a bit of low-V pulsing to turn platinum gold oxidation when you're just at adhesion. You can get to that real quick tho with excess tension. Problem is you've not layered much actual oxidation I think. My observations is these winds go way to the hot side without the advantage of insulation so it's easy to get to breakdown voltage, i.e. electron jump across turn, a short basically. So the wind goes hot and often leads do too. That's a huge waste of power and you see appreciably less vaporization relative to the power being applied.
So the answer is a zone of strain. It's pretty wide tho. If the method weren't that versatile or forgiving it would be useless. Just stay tuned to the progression of oxidation change and you'll be able to relate these to the kind of temperature output you're getting. You may settle on just how much oxidation is preferable for you. For example, low power <25 tank applications I'm barely reaching a medium blue across 3/5 of the wind with 2 or 4 turns barely exhibiting any oxidation at all. And that's adequate for that application. Oxidation continues with use. For higher power I like to continue that process as long as my patience permits to arrive at some very deep burgundy-blue-gray finishes…
Even as adhesion helps accelerate the process of normal passivation it can take a while to add enough insulation to maintain a t.m.c. through extremely high power. If not enough you can reach breakdown, send the wind hot and I understand from my readings here and elsewhere this degrades the alumina layers marking the end of life for the wind. So it's not something I can readily or easily explain as you can see because we use our devices in so many ways. This part (oxidation) then is a personal learning process that very much depends on a great many preference factors much like cooking. So the goal of strain winding is insulating the coil just like we make sure we've got enough grease in the pan. One tool leads to another.
G'luck slip.
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Yeah funny works sometimes. I trap the closed end of parallel in a needle nose under my left knee, rest the left forearm on the leg and wind down with the pin vise. Good for a couple of quickies out and about. Better to clamp 'em in somethin' tho. These days the vision is a limit.
On the over-strain, yes it's possible. Strain elongates the wire reducing resistance. With a mechanical like a gizmo or jig it's real easy to overdo it. Normally it takes quite a bit of low-V pulsing to turn platinum gold oxidation when you're just at adhesion. You can get to that real quick tho with excess tension. Problem is you've not layered much actual oxidation I think. My observations is these winds go way to the hot side without the advantage of insulation so it's easy to get to breakdown voltage, i.e. electron jump across turn, a short basically. So the wind goes hot and often leads do to. That's a huge waste of power and you see appreciably less vaporization relative to the power being applied.
So the answer is a zone of strain. It's pretty wide tho. If the method weren't that versatile or forgiving it would be useless. Just stay tuned to the progression of oxidation change and you'll be able to relate these to the kind of temperature output you're getting. You may settle on just how much oxidation is preferable for you. For example, low power <25 tank applications I'm barely reaching a medium blue across 3/5 of the wind with 2 or 4 turns barely exhibiting any oxidation at all. And that's adequate for that application. Oxidation continues with use. For higher power I like to continue that process as long as my patience permits to arrive at some very deep burgundy-blue-gray finishes…
Even as adhesion helps accelerate the process of normal passivation it can take a while to add enough insulation to maintain a t.m.c. through extremely high power. If not enough you can reach breakdown, send the wind hot and I understand from my readings here and elsewhere this degrades the alumina layers marking the end of life for the wind. So it's not something I can readily or easily explain as you can see because we use our devices in so many ways. This part (oxidation) then is a personal learning process that very much depends on a great many preference factors much like cooking. So the goal of strain winding is insulating the coil just like we make sure we've got enough grease in the pan. One tool leads to another.
G'luck slip.
I appreciate it! Thankyou Mac for always taking the time to fully explain.
Cheers
OK, I've been doing this for a while with kanthal now (best way to build by far IMHO), and was wondering if anyone's tried this with Stainless steel. I have 250' of 26ga SS316L coming in hopefully soon, and would like to know what to expect. Of course, if no one's tried it, I'll let you guys know
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